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Darksbane
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Official Nate Rule Clarifications


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#1
Tragic

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Ok, time to try and start getting the LoTR section pumping!! What I am going to do here is go though the posts form other sources and post all the official Nate responses to rules questions. Unfortunately I only know one place were people are collecting these posts. If you have a question AND an answer please pot them both in here as well.
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#2
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Question Submitted by "guciomir @ FFG"

Q: - In Hills Of Emyn Muil quest, treacheries can gain extra surge effect if there are no locations in play. What if I draw a treachery like impassable chasm which has its own surge effect? Does surge stack so I have to resolve 2x surge and draw 2 more cards from encounter deck? I suspect that this may be a case because as per FAQ, some effects like Caught in the web are stackable (and this situation looks similar to me). Can you please confirm?

A: - Yes, If a card has multiple instances of the surge keyword, each instance should be resolved.

#3
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Question Submitted by "guciomir @ FFG"

Q:- The impassable bog reads: when revelead, add 1 token to gollum for every location in the staging area. When this text is triggered, is the just-revealed Bog considered in the staging area? In other words, does the Bog count itself as a location in the staging area?

A: - Encounter cards are revealed from the encounter deck, their "When Revealed" effects are resolved, and the card is then placed in the staging area. So the Bog has not yet entered the staging area when its effects resolve.

#4
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Question Submitted by "guciomir @ FFG"

Q: - Is active location considered in the staging area?

A: - An active location is not considered in the staging area.

#5
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Question Submitted by "Booored" @ FFG

Q: - With the Encounter card "Wargs" there is an effect that says "If Wargs is dealt a shadow card with no effect, return Wargs to the staging area after it attacks." So how dose "Dawn Take you All" effect it? As the shadow card is discarded before it is revealed dose this count as "no shadow effect", or is the fact that the card is discarded before reveal mean that the entire "check to see if it attacks wit ha shadow card" is ignored? Basicly what I am asking is if you use "Dawn Take you All" to discard a shadow card on a "Warg" enemy.. dose it stay in the combat zone after it attacks?

A: - Because "Dawn Take You All" discards the card before it is revealed, the attempt to check whether or not that card has an effect does not trigger. (When the card would be revealed in combat, there is no card there.)

#6
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Question Submitted by "Booored" @ FFG

Q: - Dose the effect on "Elfhelm" remove a 1 threat gain from the "Gollum" card in Return to Mirkwood? Is "Gollum" part of the encounter deck, as it is not ever IN the deck, or revealed from it? Elfhe lm's ting is "Response: After your threat is raised as the result of questing unsuccessfully, or by an encounter or quest card effect, reduce your threat by 1."... but is Gollum a "encounter" card?

A: - Objective cards are considered encounter cards, whether they actually get shuffled into the encounter deck or not.

#7
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Question Submitted by "Booored" @ FFG

Q: - Dose the new Cave-Troll card that spills dmg from one card to the next only do this once? Or dose the dmg spill over to a new character until the dmg runs out?
So, can this effect spill over so the Cave-Troll dmg hits 3 cards for example?

A: - The "overflow" damage is assigned point by point. If it kills off a character, there is still overflow from the attack that needs to be assigned.

#8
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Question Submitted by "Booored" @ FFG

Q: - Landroval's ability, is it limited once a game per player? Or is it limited to once a game per-card? As in if you run 3 cards, can you use that ability 3 times, one for each card.
Also, if 2 players use Landroval, then can both players can activate their Landroval cards separately? I know you can only have 1 on the table at a time, but dose the "once per game" thing cover ALL players or only the player that controls the card. Lastly, we know that going into your hand dose not reset the "once per game" rule, but dose playing the card form your gravyard also not reset the ability? Thanks as always for giving us a defiant answer.

A: - Limits are player specific, each player can reach the limit.

"Per game" limits are not card specific, they refer to any copy of the effect under that player's control. If you have reached the "per game" limit, you cannot trigger that effect again, with another copy of the card in your deck, a copy of the card you gained control of from another player, or from the same card that has left play and re-entered the game.

#9
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Question Submitted by "alpha5099" @ FFG

Q: - I'm curious as to how the Cave Troll's splash damage is supposed to work. It seems like there are two possibilities. Let's say after blocking there are still 3 points of damage left to be assigned. Do I need to choose a character to take as much of that damage as they can before dying (with any extra continuing to a third character), or are those 3 points of damage to be distributed among my characters as I see fit? The Cave Troll's text reads: "For each excess point of combat damage dealt by Cave-troll (damage that is dealt beyond the remaining hit points of the character damaged by its attack) you must damage another character you control." The official response from someone else asking about the Cave Troll was: "The 'overflow' damage is assigned point by point. If it kills off a character, there is still o verflow from the attack that needs to be assigned." Phrases like "for each point of damage" and "point by point" seem to me to suggest that it is the latter, that the damage is freely distributed.

A: - You can distribute the excess damage as you see fit. Each point (as per the language on the Troll) is resolved individually.

#10
Booored

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sticky please!

#11
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Michail Giannis @ BGG

Q:- The Situation - A game with 2 players (or more). One of the players lost all his heroes and he is eliminated from the game. They died (he wasn't eliminated for reaching 50 to the threat meter). He puts all his heroes, his hand and his cards in play in the discard pile. Can he use the card Fortune of Fate to bring back one of this players hero? He will only gonna have one hero and no cards in his hand and his threat will be as it was the time he died.

A: - Once a player is eliminated, his discard pile can no longer interact with the game. I'll make sure to add this to the next FAQ update.

#12
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Zeb Ulon @ BGG

1) When a card says "Forced: After X attacks...", the FAQ says this should be applied at the end of step 4. The rules also say that "Players may play event cards and take actions at the end of each step". Does the Forced effect occur after or before the player actions? In other words, is the player action window part of a step (and "before" its end) or separate and after the "end" of that step?


A: Since Forced effects occur "immediately, whenever their specified prerequisite occurs," they take priority at the end of step 4. All Forced effects should resolve before players have the option to take actions.

#13
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Zeb Ulon @ BGG

2) W hen a card says "Forced: After an attack in which X attacked/defended resolves", does that mean after or before the player action window that is allowed at the end of step 4 of an enemy attack (or the step 3 of the player attack)? In other words, when is an attack considered as "resolved"? This is very important, because if we can play before the combat is resolved, this would allow us to return Vassal of the Windlord or Winged Guardian using Meneldor's Flight before their Forced Response is played. Is that possible?


A: The attack resolves at the conclusion of the final step, so again, Forced effects should occur before players have a chance to take actions.

#14
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Zeb Ulon @ BGG

3) There is a very similar question for the Quest phase: when a card says "Forced: After resolving a quest to which X was committed...". When is a quest considered as "resolved"? Is there is a player action window at the end of step 3 before the quest is considered as resolved? Similarly to the above case, this would allow to return Escort from Edoras to hand using a player action before its Forced response is played.


A: The quest resolves at the conclusion of its final step. Forced effects should resolve before player player actions.

#15
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Zeb Ulon @ BGG

4) In the player attack sequen ce, since it is possible to play actions after calculating attack strength in step 2, what happens if an attacker is returned to the hand between step 2 and 3 (e.g. Vassal of the Windlord)? Is the attack strength reduced? If yes, why is attack strength calculated in step 2 and then damage applied in step 3? Why interrupting the player attack sequence that way, whereas in the case of enemy attacks, attack strength calculation and damage allocation are part of the same step?

A: The first line of step 3 reads, "This is done by subtracting the target enemy's defense STR from the combined attack STR of all the attacking characters." If an attacking character leaves play before this calculation, it will not be present to contribute to the calculation.

The main reason for breaking the initial determination into its own step is to give players a chance take actions or play event cards if they add up their attack and realize they need to buff STR to do what they wanted to accomplish. Players who are not as familiar with these types of games might think that such cards have to be played before adding things up, and the basic rulebook was written to try and make this procedure as easy as possible for novice players.

The difference between player attacks and the game attacks is that the game plays its "buff" cards automatically (the Shadow cards), so it doesn't need the same type of pause to add everything up and consider the result that is built in for players


Zeb Ulon @ BGG - So to summarise:

- Player's actions are not "allowed at the end of each step" as written in the rules, but after (or between) each step. Furthermore, combat is resolved at the end of step 4 of an enemy attack or at the end of step 3 of a player attack. Then Player actions are allowed, but Forced effects must be played before that! Similarly, quest is considered as resolved at the end of step 3 of the Quest phase, but before the player action window. Therefore Meneldor/Vassal or Born Aloft/Winged Guardian/Escort end-of-phase-rescue combos are not valid combos!
EDIT: afterthoughts: that is one interpretation of the turn sequence. Another interpretation, closer to the original rule book, is to allow indeed player actions at the end of each step, but that the last step of combat/quest is when it is resolved. Thus player actions are allowed, but Forced effects take precedence to actions when triggered. Resolution does not occur at the end of the phase, it is the last step!

- It also means that "Forced: After X attacks..." and "Forced: After an attack in which X attacked/defended resolves..." are resolved with the same timing! I thought the latter - convoluted? - way was to really make a distinction.

- In the player attack sequence, although the attack strength is calculated in step 2, it is recalculated in step 3, considering new or on the contrary, removed attackers. Again, if Vassal is rescued by Meneldor between steps 2 and 3 of player attack (I assume this is valid in that case, since the attack is not resolved), then its attack strength is not added anymore to the damage total!

#16
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Jordan Kehrer @ BGG

i actually got a response from Nate French the game designer. He said that the intention of Grimbeorn is that he does not change players each round since his effect does not mention a control change. He is going to put this into the next FAQ either as a clarification or a wording change of the card to make it more clear (ie making it a forced effect).

He did say though that the new eagle in the next adventure pack DOES use the word control and so that ally will change hands each rounds to the new first player.

#17
Booored

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Memetix @ FFG

If a hero is discarded, is it considered dead?

i.e. If Boromir uses his "Action: Discard Boromir .....", or if Glorfindal heals Wilyador and is discarded, or a Khazad Dum shadow effect causes a hero to be discarded, are these mighty heroes considered "dead" when it comes to scoring at the end of the game?

The answer from Nate.
Any hero that was used in the game, but is not in play at the end of the game, should be considered "dead" for scoring purposes.

#18
Booored

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Question
There is a number of effects that say "Search the Encounter Deck and the Discard Pile for x" Dose this command imply a order.. as in search the encounter deck 1st, then the discard pile or dose it mean you can simply choose witch one you want to search in? If so why dose it not say "or" instead of "and".

Also, as it says "and" dose this mean that you gave to search in both. So the encounter deck gets shuffled no matter what? Like is the command saying "reveal the encounter deck, and look in the discard pile at the same time, and choose card X, then shuffle the encounter deck"

Answer
You are searching both the encounter deck and the discard pile, so order does not matter. If you choose to search the encounter deck first, even if you find a candidate for the search, you should continue to search the discard pile. And vice versa. Abstractly, you are searching them both at the same time--while physically you can only look through one stack of cards at a time--it's still considered one single big search.

And yes, the encounter deck should be shuffled, even when you find your candidate in the discard pile

#19
MountainRoot

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Question about the card Valiant Sacrifice (Core Set)
Event / Leadership / Cost 1
Response: After an ally card leaves play. that card's controller draws 2 cards.


A question to please a friend of mine because hearing it from me is not enough.

Situation 1
I have 2 Valiant Sacrifice cards in my hand. An ally of mine leaves play.
Can i play both V.S.? Also the correct order is. Play the first one, i draw 2 cards and then play the second one.

Situation 2
I have 1 Valiant Sacrifice card in my hand. An ally of mine leaves play. I play the Valiant Sacrifice and one of the 2 cards is a new Valiant Sacrifice. Can i play the recently received Valiant Sacrifice immediately?

Official Answer
Response effects are resolved completely before the next response is
played.

Situation 1

Play and resolve the first copy. (Draw 2 cards)

Play and resolve the second copy. (Draw 2 more cards)

Situation 2

Yes, you can play the copy you just drew.


Nate French
Senior Game Designer
Fantasy Flight Games
nfrench@fantasyflightgames.com


#20
zeb

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sirprim @ BGG

If I declare the Wandering Took as a defender and after revealing shadow cards I use his ability to give him to a different player, does the attack then count as undefended since the Took is no longer a legal defender?

Official Answer from Nate:
There is nothing inherent in a control change that removes a defending character from the status of "defending." So even if the Wandering Took changes control, he is still considered to be defending the attack.