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Official Nate Rule Clarifications


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#41
zeb

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Escort from Edoras - a timing issue

Nerdmeister:

"Forced: After resolving a quest to which Escort from Edoras was committed, discard Escort from Edoras from play"

Straightforward some might say. However a few nights ago I played a 2-player nightmare game in the hunt for Gollum cycle. And during the last quest phase of one of the scenarios Escort from Edoras was used for questing. Quest resolves and we put enough progress on it to finish the scenario.

Now comes the matter of timing. Because the rules state that "players immediately advance to the next stage of a quest as soon as they place a number of progress tokens equal to a greater than the number of quest points the current quest card has", these 2 effects seem to be happening close to one another (if not indeed simultaneous).

If the effects are indeed simultaneous then, according to the latest official FAQ, "the first player decides the order in which the effects resolve" and there´s no problem. However if they are not simultaneous which effect comes first?

PS: in nightmare this is an issue as to wether the player is allowed to shuffle the card back into his deck or wether it will be banished to the discard pile for the next scenario.


Caleb:

Good questions. The quest progression isn't really a "Forced" effect because it doesn't use the term "Forced." Instead, quest progression is a passive effect that is always active and just waiting for its conditions to be met. So, in the order of resolution, passive effects take prescedence over Forced effects. The order is as follows:
1. Passive
2. Forced
3. Response
This means that the quest would resolve and the game would end before the Escort from Edoras could trigger its Forced effect.
To answer your question about Forced effects that share a trigger: yes, the first player decides the order of resolution in cases of a tie.



#42
zeb

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Is a "Does not exhaust to commit…" hero able to commit to quest even though he is exhausted?

ricedwlit:

If a hero has "Light of Valinor" attached (states "Attached hero does not exhaust to commit to a quest."), then can they commit to a quest when they are already exhausted?

Example: Glorfindal has both "Caught in a Web" and "Light of Valinor" attached to him. After exhausting in one round (for whatever reason) he does not refresh at the end of that round since he cannot pay the two resources for "Caught in a web". During the next round, will he be able to commit to a quest even though he is exhausted (provided "Light of Valinor" is still attached)?


Caleb:

That's one of those questions that made me say "hmm" because I can follow your train of thought. However, the answer is no; a character cannot commit to a quest when exhausted.



#43
zeb

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Game text on heroes in the discard pile is not active

Caleb:

Both Landroval and Fortune or Fate will work to return Beorn to play because each of those effects targets the hero in the discard pile, and game text on heroes in the discard pile is not active.



#44
zeb

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Return order of cards on top of the Encounter deck

Angus Lee:

Fell Voices (The Redhorn Gate 2/29) reads: "When Revealed: Return the top 2 Snow cards in the encounter discard pile to the top of the encounter deck". In the encounter discard pile, the topmost snow card is a Snow Warg (TRG 29/29) and the next one is Avalanche! (TRG 21/29). My question is do I have to put the topmost one (i.e. Snow Warg) on the encounter deck first and then Avalanche! on its top (i.e. next card I reveal from the encounter deck will be Avalanche!), or I can take these two cards out from the discard pile and rearrange their order to be put on the encounter deck?


Caleb:


Because Fell Voices does not specify the order in which you return the 2 cards to the top of the encounter deck, then the first player will decide.



#45
fgerken

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Question about the beginning of the resource phase, the additional card draw provided by Ori and Bilbo and what happens with Iron Shakels.

Caleb Grace:

Hi Frank,
Good question. The beginning of the resource phase is the beginning of the round. Ori and Bilbo each provide an additional card draw that comes after the regular card draw at the beginning of the resource phase. So if Iron Shackles were discarded instead of drawing a card, Bilbo and Ori would still provide 1 additional card draw.
Cheers,
Caleb



#46
zeb

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Shadow card is discarded after it is revealed but before its effect influences the game

Jay:

If a shadow card is discarded (using Rider of the Mark's ability for example) after it is revealed but before its effect influences the game, does the Shadow effect still occur?

For example, suppose an attacking enemy is dealt Dol Guldur orcs as a shadow card. Then after the shadow card is revealed but before the attacker deals combat damage, Rider of the Mark is used to discard the shadow card. Does the attacker still get the +Attack bonus from Dol Guldur orcs?

If the attacker does get the +Attack bonus in the previous example, are there any shadow effects (to your immediate knowledge) that could be canceled by Rider of the Mark after the shadow card is revealed? (The original question specifically was if Chieftain of the Pit's shadow ability could be canceled.)


Caleb:

If a shadow card is discarded by card effect, then the players do not resolve its shadow effect.
However, there is no action window for Rider of the Mark to be used after a shadow card is revealed during combat. Step 3 of Resolving Enemy Attacks (when shadow cards are revealed) must be completely resolved before the players can take actions.
To take advantage of the Rider of the Mark's ability, you need to trigger it before a shadow card is revealed.



#47
Courchevel

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Hello i'm new to the game, however I have some questions to the game that might have been already discussed :
1/ can i play steward of gondor in my planning phase, then take some ressources from steward of gondor and then play an ally with the ressources newly connected ? I am not completely sure about the timing of playing ally/ attachements and performing actions during this phase.

2/ what is the cost of an ally in play ? For example, for dunedain wanderer, is it 5 or 2 (supposing your threat is under 20). The question is regarding the use of the card a very good tale.

3/ if I have Arwen Undomiel in play and another character, then I play spare hood and cloak on her. Can i start switching the attachement to exhaust arwen (responding with her effect) to ready the other character, then switch it back to arwen and doing this any number of times ? Result for me should be having all character at maximum defense level and sentinel ?

As it is my first post and first serie of questions, I might not comply exactly to all forum habits. Furthermore, english isn't my mother language, so i might not be as clear as I expect to be.
So in a advance, thanks for the answer and for reading.
Mike

[edit] thank you fgerken, i have reposted individual topics for each question.
Sorry, i did read the first post of the topic, however, i did it wrong. Admin can delete this post if they feel it would be better.

#48
fgerken

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Please repost your questions directly in the forum and read the first post of this topic carefully! No questions here that don't have an official answer from the devs!

#49
fgerken

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Q: Are shadow effects considered to be encounter card effects?

A (Caleb Grace): Great question. The answer is: Yes, shadow effects are card effects on encounter cards. Therefore, they are considered encounter card effects. That means while Crebain (Road to Rivendell #51) is in the staging area, you cannot cancel shadow card effects.

#50
Jhaelen

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Q: If I commit both Aragorn (core) and Theodred (core) to a quest, can I use Theodred's response to give 1 resource to Aragorn and then use that resource to ready him using his response?

A (Caleb): Yes. When you have multiple Response actions with the same trigger ("After XXXX commits to a quest..."), you can decide the order in which you want to resolve each Response. Since Aragorn and Theodred's ability share the same trigger, you can use Theodred's first and give the resource to Aragorn, allowing him to use his ability.

#51
Tragic

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Question

Escape Tests (The Dead Marshes)

Is there the opportunity to play actions during the resolution of a escape test, after the escape cards have been dealt but before the players will is calculated? As in a similar window to the quest phase after the staging area is revealed but before quest tokens are placed.

Answer

No, there is no action window at that time. The only action window during an Escape test is after committing characters to the test but before dealing cards from the encounter deck.

Cheers,
Caleb

#52
zeb

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When revealed timing (Sewers / Steward's Fear)

Rich Sabre:

The Sewers location that says underworld 1…so when it enters play you put 1 card underneath it. It also has When revelead: place 1 card underneath the active location if able. Which comes first?


Caleb:


When revealed comes first.



#53
zeb

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Silvan tracker healing ability

Morithain:

The wording of Silvan Tracker is a bit confusing to me here--does this mean that if you have a silvan tracker in play, *all* silvan characters heal a wound when they ready? Or is it just one per silvan tracker?


Caleb:


You can trigger the Silvan Tracker's ability for each Silvan character that readies during the refresh phase. If 8 Silvan character's ready at the same time, you will trigger the Response 8 times and resolve them one by one.



#54
zeb

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Smaug and his immunity to player card effects (e.g. Ithilien Tracker)

Nyck:

In the latest FAQ it is said that you are allowed to use player card effects on cards which are immune to player card effects as long as they are inactive/not in play (f.e. fetching Beorn out of the discard pile by using a card effect).

So i was wondering if it would be allowed to play a card like "Ithilien Tracker" (Action: Exhaust Ithilien Tracker to lower the [Threat] of the next enemy added to the staging area to 0 until the end of the phase) and placing Smaug in the staging area to reduce his threat. At least in the first round the card effect happens before Smaug is active (he will be drawn from the Smaug-Pile) so he will not be immune to it... and if this is correct what about the next round when you exchange him with another Smaug card... ?


Caleb:

Good question. Unfortunately, the Ithilien Tracker's ability will not work on Smaug because it only works on an enemy "added to the staging area." By the time Smaug is added to the staging area, it has entered play and its immunity is active.



#55
zeb

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Lord Alcaron's ability

David Moeller:

When a villager is discarded, Lord Alcaron's ability retrieves the discarded villager (resource token) and places it on a location. Since this response occurs "after a villager token is discarded" does this mean the Dead Villagers text still triggers and a damage token is still placed on it?


Caleb:

The word "instead" in Lord Alcaron's ability indicates that it is a replacement effect. So if his ability is used to place a just discarded villager token on a location, then it hasn't actually been discarded because it has been placed on a location instead. That means if you use Alcaron to prevent a villager token from being discarded by a just revealed Orc Ravager, the Orc Ravager would gain surge.



#56
zeb

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Forced effects on an unconscious character (e.g. Gandalf OHaUH 10)

Angus Lee:

I have the new Gandalf (OHaUH 10) in play, which has the card text "Forced: At the end of the refresh phase, discard Gandalf from play...", who becomes unconscious. Does his Forced Response still trigger at the end of the refresh phase?


Caleb:

Good question. Gandalf's Forced effect is a triggered ability, so if he is made unconscious his Forced effect will not trigger and he will not be discarded at the end of the refresh phase.



#57
zeb

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Small target and target of attack (e.g. interaction with O Elbereth)

GrandSpleen:

If you use Small Target and it succeeds, is the enemy still considered to be "attacking you?" Would O Elbereth be a legal play after successfully using Small Target?


Caleb:

If you play Small Target and the shadow card has no shadow effect, then the attacking enemy's attack is resolved against a different enemy engaged with you. In that case, you are no longer the target of the attack and the enemy would no longer be attacking you. Therefore, it would not be a legal target for O Elbereth! Gilthonial!



#58
zeb

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Collateral damage

Legolas18:

if I discarded another copy of Collateral Damage from the encounter deck with the initial 2 discarded cards, does that mean I have to discard 2 more for the copy just discarded? Or does the "Discard an additional 2 cards from the encounter deck for each copy of CD in the discard pile" effect happen immediately, at the same time as the initial 2 discarded cards, negating any other CDs discarded from having any effect?


Caleb:

"When Revealed" effects are resolved on a sentence-by-sentence basis. When Collateral Damage is revealed, you discard the top 2 cards of your deck first. Then you discard 2 additional cards for each copy of Collateral Damage in the discard pile. Lastly you count the number of locations just discarded and raise your threat by the appropriate amount.
If a copy of Collateral Damage is discarded by the first sentence, then you would count that copy when resolving the second sentence.



#59
zeb

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Expecting Mischief Timing Question

JonofPDX:

Does expecting mischief trigger before or after an encounter cards "when revealed" effect? Also, does it trigger before keywords like "surge" or "doomed" like Thalin does (I assume not based on the different language)?


Caleb:

As the effect comes into play BEFORE any encounter card is revealed it triggers before keywords and "when revealed" effects. If the enemy is destroyed, those effects never trigger.



#60
zeb

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Feint discarding timing

midwestborn86:


"Feint" and "thicket of spears" will stop an ememy or multiple enimies from attacking "this phase." Does this mean that these events are not resolved and are not discarded until the end of the combat phase?
The reason this is important is it will determine if Hama can attack and get the played feint or spears card back from the discard that phase.


Caleb:

Unless an event card says otherwise, it should be discarded as soon as it is played. That would allow Hama to retrieve a Feint just used to prevent an enemy from attacking.