55 replies to this topic

[ornatov]

Packmaster Kith

1 Signature Squad

3 Promotion
3 Raid
3 Rogue Trader
3 Void Pirate
3 Superiority
3 Suffering
3 Murder of Razorwings
3 Incubus Warrior
3 Archon's Terror
3 Hellion Gang
3 Baleful Mandrake
3 Wildrider Squadron
3 Haemonculus Tormentor
3 Doom

Round 1, Eldar.

I control the Command phase with the Neutral dudes and Promotion. Superiority starves my opponent of cards and Razorwings + Pact of the Haemonculi make sure the cards that he does get are discarded.

1-0

Round 2, Dark Eldar.

My cheaper units and superior Command phase control allow me to out-draw and out-produce my opponent.

2-0

Round 3, Space Marines.

I take the first couple planets pretty easily, but on the third, I don't notice that he has the AOE 1 Space Marine. A bajillion Khymeras die, and the game become pretty damn hard. I spend the next couple of planets rebuilding and bloodying his warlord, and confront him on the planet that would win it for me. I end up killing his warlord with Ranged + normal swing.

3-0

Round 4, Space Marines.

My buddy from Seattle. He keeps a questionable hand, and is never in the game. Apparently, he had 3 Eager Recruits, and his plan was warlord Assassination.  My dial selections were so erratic, he could never quite guess where I was going. Razorwings pulling his Exterminatus helped quite a bit.

4-0

Round 5, Dark Eldar.

A very similar deck to mine - I just drew better and was able to have a better Command Phase throughout the game.

5-0

Round 6, Dark Eldar.

A very similar deck to mine - Khymera Den was the deciding card in this game. I was able to Benny Hill my khymeras from planet to planet, and have them show up where they were needed.

6-0

Top-16, Eldar.

My opponent from Round 1. This game doesn't go much better for him - my opening of Razorwings, Pact, Razorwings pulled some key cards, and he was never able to get into the game.

Top-8, Space Marines.

I make at least 2 mistakes per turn throughout this 7-turn game. I mess up deployments, I mess up assigning, I mess up shielding - I think I've made a mistake with every single aspect of the game. Not entirely sure what happened there, but I get destroyed.

Some comments about the deck.

Notable omissions:

Unique Dark Eldar dudette - 2 attack for 3 resources is not an acceptable ratio for a swarm deck.

Eldar Survivalist - paying 2 resources for someone who will probably get eaten by the opposing warlord more than half the time doesn't seem like a good plan.

Twisted Laboratory - it doesn't contribute to command, it doesn't contribute to battle, and it doesn't save my Khymeras from dying. No good.

Sybarite Marksman - it's a blank placement during Command, and that is the only reason why Razorwings got the slot over this guy - they do something when played. He's got an amazing stat line, but this deck really needs to do well in the command phase to get anywhere.

Notable Inclusions:

Razorwings - random discards are a powerful mechanic. Additionally, sometimes it tilts folks and induces mistakes that would not otherwise have been made.

Suffering - a blank card with 2 shields.

Superiority - the deck really does need to do well during command, and this card is a "surprise" that can throw off the opponent's plans.

So, there you go.

Dark Eldar are pretty amazing - I think Packmaster Kith is the best Warlord in the current lineup and Kith's Khymeramasters are one of the better sigsquad 4-ofs.

~Andrew

[Majestaat]

If I'm not mistaken you would be the same Ornatov who played Mantis swarm in L5R? This deck does feel quite similar to those.

 

So... many cheap units to control command as well as stall the deployment phase. Add insult to injury with Razorwings and Superiority to be absolutely certain the opponent won't ever have cards/resources to comeback, at all. Then simply make use of the superior presence and shielding to win planets battles and planets.

 

Thanks for this report and insight, greatly appreciated!

[HidaHonk]

Yes the pain of each crab players as he is famous for playing the dreatfull spider:) thx for sharing the deck!

[Toqtamish]

Yeah he won GenCon as Spider as a I recall with a Breeder deck. I knew I recognized the name when I saw it on the list the other day.

[ornatov]

Yeah, that's me.

 

The comment on stalling the command phase - yes, the cheap units are great for that.  I'd much rather deploy my unaligned guys and promotions after my opponent deploys theirs.

 

~Andrew

[brimmstorm]

I was playing a very similar deck and found that Twisted Labratory was pretty good for getting rid of AOE on units. But I love this style of deck, nice job.

We're most of the DE decks in the top cut similar? I played and was 3-1 after 4 rounds, but dropped the ball and lost two in a row.

[ornatov]

Yeah, most of the DE decks were quite similar.

 

Notable differences from the list above were the inclusion of Survivalist and the 1/5 mobile dude.  Survivalist I didn't include because it doesn't help me win command any better than the 1-cost guys and the 1/5 mobile guy doesn't have a big-enough front end for the price.

 

I did not see any DE/CH decks in the top cut.  Totally possible that I just missed them, though.

 

~Andrew

[GKZhukov]

Thanks for the insight.

 

Out of curiosity how much AoE (or pretend-AoE e.g. Maniak, Warp Storm) did you encounter in general?

[brimmstorm]

Yeah, most of the DE decks were quite similar.

Notable differences from the list above were the inclusion of Survivalist and the 1/5 mobile dude. Survivalist I didn't include because it doesn't help me win command any better than the 1-cost guys and the 1/5 mobile guy doesn't have a big-enough front end for the price.

I did not see any DE/CH decks in the top cut. Totally possible that I just missed them, though.

~Andrew

Yeah I had the survivalist in my deck but I like your reasoning behind the 1 cost guys. It's to easy to snipe the survivalist with the warlord. I think your deck is something I would have played had I played my deck more than 1 time before the tourney I was only like 6 cards different.

[Koz]

Yeah, most of the DE decks were quite similar.

 

Notable differences from the list above were the inclusion of Survivalist and the 1/5 mobile dude.  Survivalist I didn't include because it doesn't help me win command any better than the 1-cost guys and the 1/5 mobile guy doesn't have a big-enough front end for the price.

 

I did not see any DE/CH decks in the top cut.  Totally possible that I just missed them, though.

 

~Andrew

TGO was playing DE/Chaos and he made top 16

[brimmstorm]

Thanks for the insight.

Out of curiosity how much AoE (or pretend-AoE e.g. Maniak, Warp Storm) did you encounter in general?

I played against Warp Storm 3-4 of the first rounds. I also played against a lot of aoe units.

[Gaffa]

Way to go, Andrew! This is your old friend from Grand Forks. What a coincidence we both show up in Conquest, and both playing Dark Eldar!

 

I'll give your deck a go; haven't tried much swarm with my DE, prefer control.

[TGO]

I was on Dark Eldar / Chaos and finished as the 4th seed after everyone dropped.

[Minute]

I played a variant on this deck today against a friend of mine running Chaos/Orks.  I swapped out the Haemonculus Tormentor and Archon's Terrors for 3x Power From Pains and Beast Wyches.

 

It was probably the most fun game I've ever played in terms of playstyle and I steamrolled from the first turn.  I got all 3 Razorwings and Raids in the first 3 turns and by turn 4 I had 2 planets (4th planet winning it for me), at least 2 cards at every planet on the board, he had only a rogue trader at HQ and some support with a ton of resources and a hand full of events that weren't worth using because his limited draw didn't net him any units.

[ornatov]

Out of curiosity how much AoE (or pretend-AoE e.g. Maniak, Warp Storm) did you encounter in general?

Not much. The first SM matchup saw me face a single AOE1 unit, and the SM in the top-8 finals played the AOE1 unit after it didn't matter.
 

Way to go, Andrew! This is your old friend from Grand Forks. What a coincidence we both show up in Conquest, and both playing Dark Eldar!

Oh, man, that was a long time ago.

What's your RL name?
 

I was on Dark Eldar / Chaos and finished as the 4th seed after everyone dropped.

Nice! Got a list you are willing to share?
 

It was probably the most fun game I've ever played in terms of playstyle and I steamrolled from the first turn.

Glad the deck worked for you, man! I would put Archon's Terror back in, though. It's a pretty awesome card.

~Andrew

[TGO]

Nice! Got a list you are willing to share?
 

~Andrew

 

Packmaster Kith

1 Signature Squad
 

Chaos Splash
X2 Warpstorm

X3 Khorne Berzerker

X3 Splintered Path Acolyte

X3 Chaos Fanatics

X2 Possessed

 

X3 Incubus Warrior

X2 Haemonculus Tormentor

X3 Balefule Mandrake

X3 Murder of Razorwings

X2 Kabalite Strike Force

X2 Syren Zythlex

X3 Archon’s Terror

X3 Raid

X3 Suffering

X2 Promotion

X3 Twisted Laboratory

 

I was doing really well in command the entire tournament until I played Tau in the top 16.

 

In swiss I played Space Marines (W), Tau (W), Space Marines (W), Dark Eldar (W), Chaos (W), Dark Eldar (L)

 

I won game 1 in the first 3 planets. Game 2 I killed the warlord. Game 3 I won in 4 planets. Game 4 I won in 3 or 4 planets against a top 16 player. Game 5 I killed the warlord with a Possessed. Game 6 I lost in 6 or 7 planets to a swarm of Khymera tokens but no den.

 

I saw Khymera den 3 times during swiss and won all 3 of those games.

[Johnny5]

I played a variant on this deck today against a friend of mine running Chaos/Orks.  I swapped out the Haemonculus Tormentor and Archon's Terrors for 3x Power From Pains and Beast Wyches.

 

It was probably the most fun game I've ever played in terms of playstyle and I steamrolled from the first turn.  I got all 3 Razorwings and Raids in the first 3 turns and by turn 4 I had 2 planets (4th planet winning it for me), at least 2 cards at every planet on the board, he had only a rogue trader at HQ and some support with a ton of resources and a hand full of events that weren't worth using because his limited draw didn't net him any units.

I really don't like the choke playstyle for this reason, While you may have been having fun, I wonder if your opponent was at all. Sitting there with nothing to do is boring and frustrating. All things are fair in tournaments, but playing for fun I rarely, if ever, field a choke deck.

[IronNerd]

I really don't like the choke playstyle for this reason, While you may have been having fun, I wonder if your opponent was at all. Sitting there with nothing to do is boring and frustrating. All things are fair in tournaments, but playing for fun I rarely, if ever, field a choke deck.

 

As the Eldar player being crushed in both Round 1s, I can say the fun thing goes downhill fast against the choke.  Absolutely nothing against Ornatov, but that first round in the top 16, when he opened with Razorwings > Pact > Razorwings... I completely fell apart inside.  I believe with all my heart that there's absolutely nothing I could have done that would have won me that game.

 

That being said (as you noted correctly), this is the World Championship, and the results have proven that it's an effective way to play.  All is fair on the big stage.

 

Anyway, congrats on the results.  I knew when I walked in on day 2 that it was an uphill battle with that much DE in the field, but it was a great experience regardless.

[ornatov]

I won game 1 in the first 3 planets. Game 2 I killed the warlord. Game 3 I won in 4 planets. Game 4 I won in 3 or 4 planets against a top 16 player. Game 5 I killed the warlord with a Possessed. Game 6 I lost in 6 or 7 planets to a swarm of Khymera tokens but no den.

 

I saw Khymera den 3 times during swiss and won all 3 of those games.

 

Grats on a solid showing and thank you for the list!

 

Yeah, I think Khymera Den is the only truly broken card in the game right now.  I've yet to lose a game where I have it in my opening hand, and I've yet to hear of another DE losing when they have it in theirs.

 

 

I really don't like the choke playstyle for this reason, While you may have been having fun, I wonder if your opponent was at all. Sitting there with nothing to do is boring and frustrating. All things are fair in tournaments, but playing for fun I rarely, if ever, field a choke deck.

 

You know, I've seen the term "choke" mentioned several times on these forums, and it doesn't make much sense to me.  Conquest has shared resources, which means a successful resource generation strategy is also a successful resource denial strategy.  They are one and the same.  I suppose you could purposefully avoid the opponent's command drops and try to go for different planets that don't have units deployed to them yet.  Or, maybe, the inclusion of 3 Razorwings can be called a "card choke" strategy.  Are those what you mean?

 

 

As the Eldar player being crushed in both Round 1s, I can say the fun thing goes downhill fast against the choke.  Absolutely nothing against Ornatov, but that first round in the top 16, when he opened with Razorwings > Pact > Razorwings... I completely fell apart inside.  I believe with all my heart that there's absolutely nothing I could have done that would have won me that game.

 

That being said (as you noted correctly), this is the World Championship, and the results have proven that it's an effective way to play.  All is fair on the big stage.

 

Anyway, congrats on the results.  I knew when I walked in on day 2 that it was an uphill battle with that much DE in the field, but it was a great experience regardless.

 

Thanks for the congrats, despite my table-flip-worthy start - it's very sportsmanlike of you.  You certainly played much better than me, I just happened to draw some busted cards - if it came down to playskill, I would have been crushed.

 

~Andrew

[GKZhukov]

I can't speak for Johnny5's use, but my understanding of Choke vs standard Command Control is where the emphasis lies.

 

1) As you note specific cards that take from your opponent - Razorwings and Pact at present. Raid does it with resources, but that's less of a factor than card choke. In future Archon's Palace and Visions of Agony will also do this.

 

2) Denial > Resource Gain. For example, opponent puts an Incubus on planet X. You could put an Incubus on planet Y in which case you both generate some resources/cards. Alternatively you put an Incubus on planet X so neither of you gains anything. Or you Superiority the Incubus (or kill it, but DE don't really do that atm), again resulting in neither gaining anything. Basically the goal here is to deny your opponent cards and command wins, and along the way you get the side benefit of sometimes gaining a few. In standard decks the goal is to gain cards/resources with the side benefit being you sometimes deny your opponent some.

 

It works with DE because they have all the cards mentioned in point 1, but also they get a free Khymera every turn (which is worth way more if both players can't play much due to low resources/cards). They of course also have decent command options and cheap units as well as very nice events and the odd way of buffing their card draw, resource gain or command (Raid, Pact, Survivalist, Superiority).

 

Inevitably in the course of any game there may be some instances where you intentionally deny > gain in a normal deck, and vice versa where you intentionally gain > deny in a choke deck, but the general focus is different.

 

[Edit: It's also how you use the planets - if you're going for choke you might try and battle at the 'discards a card' planet or make sure your opponent never wins the '3 card/3resource' planet. In normal play these planets, whilst still important, would probably have less impact on your play]