55 replies to this topic

[kenji]

I play the same deck with 2 sirens (-1 promotion, -1 tormentor). It's working very well, but my doom x3 were pretty useless since now, but I don't have enough games.

There were usefull to you and having those in x3 isn't too much?

[Liyan]

I used the undefeated deck to playtest earlier against the Worlds Champ deck. First turn was Void Pirate, Kith’s Khymeramasters, Murder of Razorwings, Pact of the Haemonculi, Khymera Den. I felt sorry for my friend.

[TGO]

First turn den is SOOOOO good.

[sparrowhawk]

First turn den is SOOOOO good.

And skilful.

[yankeefan1355]

LOL

[yankeefan1355]

I was at the Casino last night and spit my Aces against the dealer's 6 up and caught two 10's!  Aces are SOOOOOOOOOOO good!

[GKZhukov]

I was at the Casino last night and spit my Aces against the dealer's 6 up and caught two 10's!  Aces are SOOOOOOOOOOO good!

 

conquest = blackjack

luck = skill

 

sounds legit

[palpster]

I played the original posters DE deck several times last couple of days. It did extremely well against Space Marines, but one game I was up against Zarathur with double Ork Kannons out fairly early on. I got completely wrecked. Every turn would either be: you oppose my Zarathur? Here, take 2 or 4 damage to everything while Zarathur takes 1 or 2. If Zarathur was't opposed (much), my Pirates, Traders and Khymera's all died. I don't see what this deck could possibly do against that matchup other than pray you discard the Kannons AND Warpstorms or can deny them enough cards on the first two turns that they never draw them. If they do, it's basically all over, against Kannons especially. Anyone else faced this yet? What did you do or what could I have done?

[Asklepios]

Its a tough matchup to play DE vs Chaos, but Chaos isn't that strong in command on itself or its allies, so you can play the long game. Outdraw them, hit Archon's Terror on the things you have to (like those Bloodletters or on a big daemon you can't shift) and otherwise play card advantage for win.

[Minute]

I played the original posters DE deck several times last couple of days. It did extremely well against Space Marines, but one game I was up against Zarathur with double Ork Kannons out fairly early on. I got completely wrecked. Every turn would either be: you oppose my Zarathur? Here, take 2 or 4 damage to everything while Zarathur takes 1 or 2. If Zarathur was't opposed (much), my Pirates, Traders and Khymera's all died. I don't see what this deck could possibly do against that matchup other than pray you discard the Kannons AND Warpstorms or can deny them enough cards on the first two turns that they never draw them. If they do, it's basically all over, against Kannons especially. Anyone else faced this yet? What did you do or what could I have done?

Something about the way you said this has me worried you are playing things wrong.

 

You do know that Ork Kannons deal 1 damage assigned to a single guy right?  If you have 3 units at a planet, only one of them takes damage (you pick) from the Kannon.  Then Zarathur increases that to 2.

 

Ork Kannons are certainly nice but only being viable in the Combat phase hurts them.  By the time it matters, you should have already won command and choked him out.  If he increases the damage, you allocate it to something cheap like a Khymera token or Rogue Trader/Void Pirate.  While these cards are certainly nice to help keep alive, the whole point of them is to provide cheap command icons to help choke your opponent in a deck like this.  Or shield the 1/2 damage with all the cards you should be drawing when you win 3-4 planets and he only wins 1-2.  This gives you a leg up for the next turn when you deploy more cheap command winning units, choke him some more, and he is only able to get a unit or two tops out.

 

If I'm playing against Chaos with a Dark Eldar deck, I think I'd rather see him playing Ork Kannons.  If he's playing Ork Kannons, it means it's easier to Raid him.  It also means the much scarier targets (Bloodletters, etc.) are still sitting in his hand and I have better odds of discarding them using Razorwings, Haemonculi, or that planet that random discards.  The scary thing to me about playing against Chaos with a choke deck is that they don't need that many cards to destroy me so long as they are the right cards.  The weakness of this deck is that it leaves the opponent resource rich much of the time so playing the big Elites becomes a lot easier and those can be really hard to take down.  Dark Eldar choke does its best work against decks that want to play lots of weaker cards.

[palpster]

Ahem, you are totally right, we played the Kannon wrong :S

I did all the other things, starved him of cards, Terror his Bloodletters, let him have a planet and then Doom the lot. I was doing just fine in that department, but we played the Kannon as doing one damage to all units at a planet, which in hindsight I should've checked, because it was way overpowered. Thanks for the replies.

[Minute]

Ahem, you are totally right, we played the Kannon wrong :S

I did all the other things, starved him of cards, Terror his Bloodletters, let him have a planet and then Doom the lot. I was doing just fine in that department, but we played the Kannon as doing one damage to all units at a planet, which in hindsight I should've checked, because it was way overpowered. Thanks for the replies.

Yep, that'll get you.

 

As a fan of the Orks, I wish that's how it worked, haha.  You should play some more games against Chaos and let us know how it goes with that change.

[Koriu]

I have a very similar deck to yours Ornatov and I do very well with it. As everyone knows, aoe attacks ans spells is the weakness of this deck. So I do not understand why you would not put Twisted Laboratory in your deck. Almost all races have an aoe spell or unit. Everytime I played that card, it made a difference espacially that a lot of players I play against use space marines in tournaments. For me I think it's a must.

I would also like to suggest removing some other events to add raid. At first, if you look at that card, it doesn't seem like it's a game changer. But when you consider many aspects at once, it is very good. You pay 0 to make your opponemt lose a valuable resource then you gain that resource. If you are in a tough battle, it can be a life saver with its 2 shields. It is one of these that make just a small difference enough to win a game. Some DE run 3 doom wich I find too much considering you have to pay 4 resources everytime and it only has 1 shield.

Here is my deck:
Warlord:
1x Packmaster Kith (Core Set)


Army Unit: (27)
4x Kith’s Khymeramasters (Core Set)
3x Baleful Mandrake (Core Set)
3x Incubus Warrior (Core Set)
3x Murder of Razorwings (Core Set)
3x Rogue Trader (Core Set)
2x Syren Zythlex (Core Set)
3x Void Pirate (Core Set)
3x Wildrider Squadron (Core Set)
3x Haemonculus Tormentor (Core Set)

Attachment: (6)
1x Agonizer of Bren (Core Set)
2x Promotion (Core Set)
3x Suffering (Core Set)

Event: (13)
2x Pact of the Haemonculi (Core Set)
3x Archon’s Terror (Core Set)
2x Doom (Core Set)
3x Superiority (Core Set)
3x Raid (Core Set)

Support: (4)
1x Khymera Den (Core Set)
1x Archon’s Palace (The Howl of Blackmane)
2x Twisted Laboratory (Core Set)

[Kingsley]

Koriu, your deck is quite in line with my own thinking on this subject. Twisted Laboratory is IMO a critical card in the SM matchup and has solid uses in nearly any other situation as well.

[Wigg]

I agree with Koriu and Kingsley.  That looks like a solid deck.  My only thought is that, even though Archon's Palace is unique, it may be worth putting 2 in the deck to see it sooner because it is so strong.  Also, it gives you insurance against a Loota or Squig Bombin.

[Liyan]

Also, it gives you insurance against a Loota or Squig Bombin.

 

Do people use these cards? Really?

[Wigg]

Do people use these cards? Really?

People seem to like the Lootas now, squig bombin not so much.

[Asklepios]

People seem to like the Lootas now, squig bombin not so much.

 

I think that if DE and SM are looking strong, its not altogether a bad idea to carry cards that can deal with Cato's Stronghold, Ragnar's Warcamp, Twisted Labs, Archon's Palace and, or course, Khymera Den. As the OP noted, a turn 1 Khymera Den makes it very likely that Kith will win the game. A little Support-hate can help mitigate this. Only against Eldar and Chaos is support-hate a mostly wasted proposition: the other five factions have supports that can make a big difference for them, and even for chaos there's likely to be supports from their allies that need dealing with.

 

Of course, Lootas can also be answered by the Twisted Labs or by Archon's Terror. Also, I suspect an Ork deck that deploys the lootas will be so thoroughly out-commanded by DE that they'll go on to lose the game anyway.

 

As always its not just about the potential answers to threat cards and the answers to those answers, but also the general integrity and consistency of a deck.

[yankeefan1355]

Yes, some of players do like to build IG/O decks, precisely to counter strong support card heavy decks.  Squigy  & Lenny help counter those decks very well IMO.

 

Also an Ork faction allied with Chaos or vice versa can achieve the same goal.  It may be a better deck build because the key cards of Warpstorm, Squigy, and Lenny aren't loyal or Sig Squad cards and you can absolutely ruin a DE deck strategy.

[kenji]

Koriu and Kingsley, Why so much Haemonculus tormentor? Is it so good? I've tested it many times and it's so expensive. In x3 it seems so unreasonable. Even in x1 I cant find a place in my de choke.