584 replies to this topic

[Asklepios]

Re: dropping Promise to Glory, its just a mad mad thought, but I'm thinking a deck that includes no 5+ costs except Vicious Bloodletters, and otherwise runs low cost units might actually be able to compete in the command game, which normally isn't the forte of Chaos. The problem with Fetid Haze is the 3 cost, and it'd be nice to be able to afford that.

 

On thinking it through and poking through the deckbuilder though, I've convinced myself that while running low cost units and no daemons except sig and Bloodletters is a valid build, the Promises still should stay in.

[Killax]

Yeah Id say dropping the Bloodletters and Promise of Glory would be a mistake as it's not only a keycard, it allows you to make much better use out of Warp Storm. Again the Fleshhounds are still in to continue to keep space for Gleeful Plague Beast which works very well as a bigger version of the Nurgling within Ku'gath's strategy (besides obvious Event synergy).

Apart from that, like you mentioned, the Promise of Glory should stay in nomather what. Remember you can use it as a Shield or pay Nurglings with it regardless besides being a 1/1 body, which Spammed can always come in handy.

[Asklepios]

Oh no, wasn't suggesting dropping the Bloodletters. Was suggesting dropping every other 5+!

 

Am currently building a Ku'gath/DE experiment. We lose Ork Kannon and Smash n Bash, but nothing else that can't be replaced. We gain Archon's Terror, slightly better command units, and 2 Coliseum Fighters, as lets face it: chaos events are awesome!

[Killax]

For sure, looking forward to seeing it, I feel for Ku'gath the window is much more open as for Zarathur I feel the synergy between him and Ork Kannon can be gigantic. Having said that, I also feel it's gigantic for Ku'gath under initiative...

[farntong]

Just a quick (rule) question... Related to the Nurgle warlord so I'll place it here.

 

Just wanted to confirm, if I placed The Plaguefather's Banner on Ku'gath, does the "move 1 damage" effect happen twice?

 

Also, Let's say I have Nurgling on 1 health with a Plaguefather's banner, and I throw a Dire Mutation on him myself.

Which effect would take place first? (i.e. would I be able to deal 4 damage, or would the Nurgling die first?)

[kizerman86]

Well done starting this thread, Kaic, sir!

Most intrigued by Kizer's comment about this warlord "wrecking people" and also Dire Mutation. Is that negative attachment really rated now? I could see its marginal value in Zarathur because of the damage pump and possible Tzeentch recursion (though it often prevented you recursing what you really wanted). But with Ku'gath? It also anti-synergises with Warpstorm. I'm not convinced.
 

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Now, that's my initial take on Ku'gath and I'm sure it can be improved vastly. However, can someone please explain to me why Dire Mutation is suddenly such a great 1 cost card with this warlord?

 

Dire Mutation *may* have just been an awesome meta call b/c there were a ton of Space Marines that night, and it just helped answer Honored Librarians quickly (especially if Ku'gath was at the same planet to move some unshieldable damage to them). I could be wrong, but the card is tough to play around and can be ambushed in after your opponent has deployed with certain battle-math in mind. 

 

As for Ku'gath, if you get an Ork Cannon and/or the Banner he becomes a first planet wrecking ball that can take on several units by himself without really worrying about dying.  The "dream" is probably 2x Ork Cannons and the Banner on Ku'gath, that game was ugly.

 

Disclaimer: I consider myself a mid-level player at this game at best, so take my AGoT shaped perceptions with a grain of salt. 

[Kumquat]

Also, Let's say I have Nurgling on 1 health with a Plaguefather's banner, and I throw a Dire Mutation on him myself.

Which effect would take place first? (i.e. would I be able to deal 4 damage, or would the Nurgling die first?)

 

I believe the Nurgling would be dead first.  Mutation is a forced interrupt and Banner is a reaction.  They both would be triggering off of step 1 of the attack process "declare the attacker," but from the language on the cards it seems pretty clear to me that DM would trigger first, "when attached unit exhausts" vs "after attached unit is declared as an attacker."  I think in general that interrupts are resolved before reactions if they are triggering off the same thing.

 

If you shield the DM damage to keep the nurgling alive I dont think you would be dealing 4 damage though.  As far as I can tell it would just be 1 moved due to the banner, and the normal 2 for the attack.

 

 

Part of me wishes that Dire Mutation wasnt restricted to army units as slapping it on Ku'gath with the banner seems like it could be a powerful combo if I understand the timing correctly.  You would lose the ability to heal 2 hp per attack, but you would still be able to heal 1hp per attack and you would guarantee that he always had at least 1 damage to move.  But I understand why it's army only as putting up to 3 on an enemy warlord would be too nasty.

[Minute]

I believe the Nurgling would be dead first.  Mutation is a forced interrupt and Banner is a reaction.  They both would be triggering off of step 1 of the attack process "declare the attacker," but from the language on the cards it seems pretty clear to me that DM would trigger first, "when attached unit exhausts" vs "after attached unit is declared as an attacker."  I think in general that interrupts are resolved before reactions if they are triggering off the same thing.

 

If you shield the DM damage to keep the nurgling alive I dont think you would be dealing 4 damage though.  As far as I can tell it would just be 1 moved due to the banner, and the normal 2 for the attack.

 

 

Part of me wishes that Dire Mutation wasnt restricted to army units as slapping it on Ku'gath with the banner seems like it could be a powerful combo if I understand the timing correctly.  You would lose the ability to heal 2 hp per attack, but you would still be able to heal 1hp per attack and you would guarantee that he always had at least 1 damage to move.  But I understand why it's army only as putting up to 3 on an enemy warlord would be too nasty.

Interrupts occur before the triggering condition completes.  They actually "interrupt" the triggering condition to modify the state, then the triggering condition continues, then reactions may trigger in response to the triggering condition completing.

 

Per the RRG:  Framework Event 3.2.6.1  The attacking player chooses one ready unit he controls at the planet, and exhausts it to attack.  This declares the chosen unit as the "attacker".  Exhausting the unit in this case is the same as declaring it as an attacker (note that Dire Mutation would also trigger due to other exhaust reasons as well, hence the different language).  Since Dire Mutation interrupts the act of exhaustion, the unit is killed before it finishes exhausting.  Since it never exhausts, it is never declared as an attacker, and therefore the banner does not go off (and the attack doesn't happen).

 

I believe this is the correct reading of the rules, though this probably belongs in the rules forum..

[Killax]

Currently have to say that Mutation has not dissapointed me. Much like the Ork Kannon it allows for great synergies and still means you're very much able to present a problem with fewer units as your opponent. My gut feeling remains to keep Mutation in the Ku'gath deck.

[Kaic]

I'm planning on throwing in a mutation or two for my next run with this deck (the main days that I get to play are Wednesday/Thursday).

[Whingewood]

After reading this thread I'm going to throw some copies of Dire Mutation into my Ku'gath deck.  Been a bit disappointed with Smash 'n Bash so far, so might swap it for that.

[Zephireast]

I've seen this card name thrown out - Gleeful Plague Beast  - Can anyone tell me what it does?

[Whingewood]

Gleeful Plague Beast is a card that was shown in the card fan of the Zogwort's Curse preview article (http://www.fantasyfl...s.asp?eidn=5092).

 

[Asmoridin]

I played my first game using Ku'gath with a deck pretty close to Asklepios' from the first page- and it went well.  Throwing Ku'gath at a planet with a tiny bit of support ended up winning it, as my Eldar opponent realized too late how hard Ku'gath would be to kill with low attack Army Unit. 

 

And Nurglings at the clutch planets when your opponent needs to deploy a lot of guys there (snowballing) brings a smile to my face.

[Killax]

Gleeful Plague Beast also is a likely candidate to be 3/6 or 4/5. With, Forced Reaction: After the Combat phase ends, deal 1 damage to each unit at this planet.

[TwoShedsJackson]

Every time I see Vectored Vyper Squad I just think of Airplane!: 'what's the vector, Victor?' etc. etc.

[Killax]

Yeah well, I personally think the Gleefull Plague Beast is quite the killer!

As I feel it's pretty much AoE (1) printed on the card, but also hurts itself as a result.

 

The biggest upside of it is that it does not seem to have to see Combat in order to trigger it's "AoE (1)" which means it probably will end up being better as Flesh Hounds who only really hold themselves well in Combat.

 

The other great synergy is that Ku'gath is able to remove all that damage on the Plague Beast which in turn gives you a semi-Warlord to work with (one who is lacking Command). Something I allready liked a lot about the Flesh Hounds.

[LordVampire]

And Nurglings at the clutch planets when your opponent needs to deploy a lot of guys there (snowballing) brings a smile to my face.

 

Except their ability doesn't work with deployment, only with movement.

[Killax]

Except their ability doesn't work with deployment, only with movement.

 

Very correct and important to remember, however I do have to say I generally really enjoy having Nurglings spreaded on the planets who matter to me. In short it will always be a sacrifice for your opponent to try and win those planets because they have to, often resulting in units who die with Warp Storms.

 

Also, mate! Where were you?!

[Asmoridin]

Except their ability doesn't work with deployment, only with movement.

 

Bah, damn you text- I mean 'commitment', not 'deploying'.  Correct game term vs how I envision it going in-universe.