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Cthulhu draft - documenting the card pool

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#21
blacksun

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Ok so i've analysed 20 draft packs. Here is some stats:

-At least 1 conspiration & 1 ancient one per factions (or similar big character cards on human factions)

-Between 2 to 9 cards per factions and between 6 to 9 neutral cards

-No duplicate cards in a draft pack

-Only found dreamlands wanderer in starter and draft pack

-Between 26 and 33 characters per draft pack

-With only 20 packs it's difficult to understand if there's probability/rarity but some cards (ancient or "powerful" cards) only appear once or twice when others can be quite common (like alaskan dog)

 

Few cards missing on your list (in white or grey in the file):

-Agency: Black Maria, The blackwood conspiracy, The Captain

-Cthulhu: Yig

-Hastur: Carcosa, In the court of the dragon, Sieur Piriou Louis

-Miskatonic: Jamie Winthrop

-Neutral: Pocket telescope, the supernal prism

-Shub: Shocking transformation

-Silver Twilight: Clifton Rosenberg, Initiate of Huang Hun, Magnus Stiles, Nigel St. James

-Syndicate: Immurment, La bella Luna, Richard Upton Pickman

-Yog: Ritual of Bellephar

 

Cards that i could'nt confirm in my packs:

-Norman Blackmoor Jr, Byakhee attack, Er'nrawr, The Claret Knight, Ya-te-veo, Satchel of the Void, Decrepit Wizard

 

 

 

Here is a complete list of cards in 20 packs: http://www.partage-f...upload/rw62albv

If we have around 50-100 packs we could do more accurate probability. I still need to improve the file with links to cardDB & more macro...


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#22
alexbobspoons

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If anyone goes to worlds they could always try adking an ffg dude "hey do draft packs contain the full card pool?" Or something similar maybe?



#23
Jhaelen

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Thanks Blacksun! That's some great additional information!

 

We're now _very_ close to having a complete list. We now know of 26 cards for every faction except Miskatonic (23), and 31 Neutral cards.

 

So, I think it's safe to say that FFG picked 26 cards per faction + 32 neutrals to arrive at a total of 240 cards: 8*26 +3 2 = 208 + 32 = 240.

I.e. they didn't count any of the cards in the Starter packs.

 

It's really odd that Dreamlands Wanderer shows up both in the Draft Starter and the Draft Packs. Is that a mistake?! Did they count it as the 32nd Neutral card?

 

I'm also a bit surprised that all three of the remaining unknown cards belong to the Miskatonic faction...



#24
Tragic

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how many cards in each pack?

#25
alexbobspoons

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Out of interest, once the list is complete, be nice to create a dice roll chart or similar to replicate the draft format without having to buy packs or fish out all the cards from your binders :)

 

Or is that just me?



#26
blacksun

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@Jhaelen: Mistake from FFG or on printer side, maybe? But as you can see in the file, the Dreamlands Wanderer card appears in fews packs and that's the only card from the starter pack

 

@Tragic: 50 cards per draft pack for 5 draft rounds of 10 cards.

 

@Alex: It's mandatory to understand how FFG has built the draft pack. Currently it seems that you don't have the same probability to have an alaskan dogs or Yig. If we have more draft pack listed, we can reverse engineer the FFG draft system for Cthulhu and build a virtual draft pack creator.


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#27
alexbobspoons

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I see, so a weighted and constructed distribution rather than fully random. Understood :)
Creator software would be great.

#28
Tragic

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I'm working on my own cube for CoC at the moment.. but it would be sweet to get a grip on how FFG dose it I just can not ever bring myself to buy a draft pack, the entire idea of buying disposable versions of cards I already own really irritated me! They should have designed a Cube Draft themselves and it would have stimulated people buying into the game more.... . . . . annnnnyyyyyywaaaaaaay.

 

@Tragic: 50 cards per draft pack for 5 draft rounds of 10 cards.

So how dose it work.. each player brings 1 pack to a draft each? This brings 5 "drafts" of 10 cards per player? Producing a 50 card pool for each player (2 players) @ +25 from each player...  / +16  / +12 /  +10 / +8 /  +7 / +6.

 

Is there any different deck building rules? Like smaller decks? Or are you supposed to bring more draft packs?
 

Alaskan Dogs


Remember when you could have 8 copies of that card in your deck!! lol

 

CT16e_016.jpg



#29
Obtuse

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Decks run at 40 cards minimum. No restricted list. No restrictions on number of individual cards, so if you draft 15 sledge dogs (they are in the pool) you could run them all. 1 draft pack with randomized cards and 1 draft starter with a few fixed cards that you can reuse per person is how the "official" draft works.

For me personally, I'd rather just buy the draft pack rather than go through the work of putting my own cards into a cube. There's zero reason why you couldn't just make your own pool though!
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#30
Tragic

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For me personally, I'd rather just buy the draft pack rather than go through the work of putting my own cards into a cube. There's zero reason why you couldn't just make your own pool though!


Yeah I'm working on a cube now. I like cubes as coc, netrunner and Swars are all enjoyed by the people in my group but no one can be bothered collecting pr deck building. So a draft is a great way to play the game but not have such a large commitment by the players. Especially if only 1 player is collecting the games. You just make up the cube and can run it for like a year or w/e... swap in some new cards now and then but on the hole the entire cube just stays set up. Simple as bringing a box of cards to game night.
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#31
Obtuse

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I suggest at least picking up a draft starter. It's got some new stories not found in other sets.

#32
Jan

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Yeah I'm working on a cube now. I like cubes as coc, netrunner and Swars are all enjoyed by the people in my group but no one can be bothered collecting pr deck building. So a draft is a great way to play the game but not have such a large commitment by the players. Especially if only 1 player is collecting the games. You just make up the cube and can run it for like a year or w/e... swap in some new cards now and then but on the hole the entire cube just stays set up. Simple as bringing a box of cards to game night.

 

How is it going with the cube, still working on it?



#33
Unnamable

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I've only drafted twice but had a great time in both instances. I would say, don't bother using FFG's draft packs as a guide for building your own draft pool! They have Loyal cards thrown in there and subtype dependent cards that have no real chance of finding synergy.  :wacko:



#34
Carthoris

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I would say, don't bother using FFG's draft packs as a guide for building your own draft pool! They have Loyal cards thrown in there and subtype dependent cards that have no real chance of finding synergy.  :wacko:

 

Thanks for that tip! I certainly avoided Loyal cards in my recent effort at a cube. I barely even used any steadfast.



#35
Obtuse

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The 3 cost loyal and cross steadfast cards in the ffg draft pool are head scratchers I agree. I think amending the rules for their draft to just ignore loyal wouldn't hurt the format at all though.

I actually really like the subtype tech they included though. At the worlds draft event I picked up some serpent cards and twice was able to turn one drop a Feathered Serpent by using Disguised Threat and offering up an Initiate of Dagon. In the same event I also got wrecked by Javier with some Lunatic tech card, though I'm forgetting exactly which cards he used.

Slick little subtype combos are really fun to try in draft, which I think sometimes suffers from being boring. Often times it seems draft is all about throwing down bodies and slugging it out, leaving little room for any type of finesse play. Anything that can potentially break that up is a good thing I feel.
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#36
Daevar

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I'm currently trying to get a grip on how a cube for CoC "should" look like and went to the official variant for some inspiration.

 

Obviously, we're still missing the distribution algorithm when it comes to "card rarity" as it seems (or our sample size is so small, that it might still be possible to have Yig and Sledge Dogs turn up just as often...), but I've looked through all the cards and it's kinda easy to see which ones *would* be put into the packs more often.

 

Anyway, I've come to the same conclusion about Loyal and Steadfast, of course. That aside, I'm not really happy with some of the subtypes they picked and would like to hear some opinions if possible. Some subtypes are just pretty bad in this setup, I feel. Mi-Gos especially absolutely require some critical mass to achieve anything worth of note. Explorers on the other end of the spectrum are always good on their own and I'd fear the day someone drafted a deck with all the explorers available in the Draft packs.

 

When starting to experiment with cube composition, I thought cross-over subtypes like Investigator and Cultist might be a better starting point than the faction-specific ones. The synergies are there but often less game-deciding. Anyway, that'd be for another topic, I'd simply like to hear some more opinions on actual hand-son play with the Necronomicon cards, since I have a) some trouble "getting" some of the cards in the Draft pool, since they don't seem to be either "good stuff" or fall into some combo-ish category and b ) if the subtypes are well implemented or don't first and foremost "hinder" the variance the factions could have brought to the pool (granted, with 26 cards per factions, it is a very limited piece of the whole).



#37
Jhaelen

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We finally received our Draft cards and played a small tournament.

 

Below is the content of our 4 Draft Packs.

Most notably we had one copy of "Whitton Greene, Restricted Collection Bookhunter", which hasn't shown up on any other list so far. We also had two copies of "Dreamlands Wanderer", so I think it's safe to assume that this is indeed the 32nd Neutral card. So, we now know all but two Miskatonic cards!

 

Agency (20):
1    Abbess Allegria Di Biase
1    Agency Bodyguard
3    Black Maria
3    Blackwood File Clerk
1    Dynamite
1    Educated Officer
1    Lightning Gun
1    Mr. Grey, Corrupt Politician
1    Professor Herman Mulder
1    Sam Archer
1    Short Fuse
1    Small Price to Pay
1    The Captain
2    T-Men
1    Unforeseen Setback

Cthulhu (22):
2    Brood of Yig
2    Cerenerian Deep One
2    Deep One Assault
3    Degenerate Serpent Cultist
1    Disguised Serpent Man
1    Disguised Threat
2    Initiate of Dagon
1    Innsmouth Troublemaker
1    Julia Brown, Oddly Amphibious
1    Keeper of the Golden Path
2    Naaginn
1    Shrine to Yig, Worship of an Ancient Evil
1    The R'lyeh Conspiracy
2    Urumi

Hastur (18):
1    Apeirophobia
1    Bearer of the Yellow Sign
1    Bringer of Fire
3    Crazed Arsonist
2    Demented Phrenologist
2    Doctor Lomboso, Finder of Madness
1    Infernal Obsession
1    Named by the Unnameable
1    N'yog-Sothep, The Nameless Mist
1    Painter of Delusion
1    Performance Artist
1    Victoria's Protege
1    Wandering Inmate
1    Whisper in the Wind

Miskatonic (22):
1    Alternative Historian
1    Brette Wulffsen, Nothing but Trouble
1    Combing the Archives
3    Cub Reporter
1    Dr. Carson's Treatment
1    Forbidden Knowledge
4    Medico Della Peste
2    Plan "B"
1    Richard Pike, Here to Help
2    Roald Ellsworth, Intrepid Explorer
1    Station Eismitte, Mid-Ice Polar Station
2    Ultima Thule, Beyond the Known World
1    Urban Trailblazer
1    Whitton Greene, Restricted Collection Bookhunter

Neutral (31):
3    Aliki Zoni Uperetria
1    Before the Fast
2    Dabbler in the Unknown
3    Death Comes for All
2    Guardian Pillar
3    Obsessive Inmate
1    Outmaneuvered
2    Overzealous Initiate
1    Parallel Universe
1    Polar Fog
2    Political Demonstration
1    Terrors in the Dark
1    The Light Side of the Moon
1    The Rays of Dawn, Cleansing Light
2    The Red-Gloved Man, He Was Never There
1    The Sanguine Watcher, He Sees What Is Not There
1    The Setting Sun
1    Unending Festivities
2    Dreamlands Wanderer

Shub-Niggurath (21):
3    Baleful Reveler
2    Book of Iod, Hostiam Sanguinis Virtus
2    Dhole Tunnel
2    Ferocious Dark Young
1    Harvesting Mi-Go
1    Into The Woods
2    Mi-Go Commander
1    Mi-Go Surgeon
1    Priestess of Bubastis
1    Rampaging Dark Young
1    Savio Corvi, Dark Lurker
2    Shocking Transformation
2    Watcher of the Woods

Silver Twilight (26):
2    Carl Stanford
1    Crescent Blade
2    Crooked Treasurer
2    Erasmus Manor, The Necromancer
3    From the First Degree to the Last
2    High Wizard of the Order
2    Initiate of Huang Hun
1    Lodge Barkeep
2    Lodge Librarian
1    Magnus Stiles
1    Nathan Wick, Master of Initiation
2    Nigel St. James
2    Ritual of Inferno
1    Sarah Van Shaw, Lodge Warden
1    Satchel of the Void
1    Secret Handshake

Syndicate (23):
1    Bound and Gagged
2    Carnevale Sentinel
2    Clover Club Bouncer
2    Clover Club Torch Singer
2    Crooked Attorney
1    Danny O'Bannion's Crony
1    Gregory Gry
2    Henry Knoll, A Real Wiseguy
1    Hired Mystic
1    Johnny Valone
1    Johnny V's Dame
1    King Kuranes
1    La Bella Luna
1    Lena Di Boerio
1    Restless Caporione
1    The Gold Pocket Watch, Stealing Time
2    Triggerman

Yog-Sothoth (17):
1    All are One
2    Arcane Initiate
1    Blood Magician
2    Book of Eibon, Mind Bending Revelations
1    Calling the Williwaw
2    Cultist of the Key
1    Disciple of the Gate
1    Fist of Yog-Sothoth
1    Sebastion Blake, Attuned to the Universe
2    The Ritual Conspiracy
2    Wizard of Yog-Sothoth
1    Yog-Sothoth (Core)
 


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#38
IoriYagami

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A bit offtopic: are there really some unique cards in draft cards?

I mean I read somewhere there are 2 unique stories? Or are there more? Are those reprints from CCG Cthulhu?



#39
Jhaelen

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I mean I read somewhere there are 2 unique stories?

Yes, the Draft Starter includes two stories that are completely new. Everything else is reprints.



#40
IoriYagami

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Reprints of LCG? Or are there reprints of CCG as well, not available in LCG packs/boxes?