449 replies to this topic

[Koz]

 

 

For Straken: - Staging Ground, again allowing you to drop down a multitude of 3/X bodies out of nowhere is extremely powerfull.

 

What are you referring to by "3/X" bodies?  That format makes me think you're referencing 3 ATK with X HP.  Is that what you're saying?

[Kaic]

The problem I see with Straken versus Coteaz is that Straken's only real strength is spamming soldiers.  The tactical options for the two are a bit different, but the general strengths of both of them are the same.  Coteaz wants a lot of low cost units/tokens to feed to his ability.  Straken wants a lot of low cost units/tokens to give his bonus to.  However, Coteaz isn't as limited in his selection since he doesn't need to worry about the solider/warrior keyword to trigger his ability.  This opens up options to him more than Straken.

 

Now, I'm not saying Straken will remain in the shadows forever, but I do feel that he will take a back seat to Coteaz for awhile at least.

 

 

Hey on the bright-side (and Im serious with this) I feel both Straken and Shadowsun will recieve HUGE gifts in the next pack.

 

The biggest problem is that anything that is good for Straken, is also good for Coteaz.  Staging Ground and Tallaran Raiders are both going to be great for Coteaz once he hits the field.

 

We're getting a bit off topic here though so I think I'll end my part of the discussion here.  I don't have a lot more to say on the Straken v Coteaz.  I do agree that the power creep thus far has been little to none.  In my experience, FFG is actually pretty good at keeping the power creep of it's LCGs in check.

[Killax]

What are you referring to by "3/X" bodies?  That format makes me think you're referencing 3 ATK with X HP.  Is that what you're saying?

 

No that wasn't the intention. But I understand I wasn't clear enough on that.

 

The intention behind the 3/X bodies statement was that Straken has a multitude of 2/2 and 2/1 bodies available to them, costed 1 or 2 who can be dropped out of a Staging Ground.

 

These from the AM faction are:

- Straken's Command Squad

- Tallarn Raiders

- Stalwart Ogryn

- Elysian Assault Team

 

But even the SM and Orks offer an number of bodies that can be used to a fantastic effect for Straken with Staging Ground:

- Tactical Squad Cardinis

- Goff Boyz

- Shoota Mob

- Evil Sunz Bikers (to come)

 

Regarding Shadowsun, it's also important to say that Heavy Marker Drones will allow her to act as a 2/7 Warlord in quite some cases.

 

 

The biggest problem is that anything that is good for Straken, is also good for Coteaz.  Staging Ground and Tallaran Raiders are both going to be great for Coteaz once he hits the field.

 

We're getting a bit off topic here though so I think I'll end my part of the discussion here.  I don't have a lot more to say on the Straken v Coteaz.  I do agree that the power creep thus far has been little to none.  In my experience, FFG is actually pretty good at keeping the power creep of it's LCGs in check.

 

Well. First of all I can't agree with your initial statement. I know for a fact that Coteaz is less likely to run Stalwart Ogryn and Straken doesn't really need Mystic Warden all that much (I even feel Coteaz doesn't need him but that's another story).

I think it's also save to say that Straken actually prefers the Ork allience while this isn't perse true for Coteaz (altough Snotling Attack is very powerfull for him).

 

Apart from that both also play very differently in terms of the last proxy plays I had with the both of them. Straken still aims for a lategame win and Coteaz (much like Aun'Shi) is trying to keep the board small and dominate with his own Combat presence.

 

I can see both playstyles being adapted by different players to great effect. Straken on the other hand still will have the lategame plan and Coteaz the early game plan (in terms of adding or removing bodies). However Coteaz starts with a strong Command presence due to his starting cards and resources where Straken will hopefully gain enough grip or commit to the planet that is the most important to get to the lategame.

[Koz]

No that wasn't the intention. But I understand I wasn't clear enough on that.

 

The intention behind the 3/X bodies statement was that Straken has a multitude of 2/2 and 2/1 bodies available to them, costed 1 or 2 who can be dropped out of a Staging Ground.

 

These from the AM faction are:

- Straken's Command Squad

- Tallarn Raiders

- Stalwart Ogryn

- Elysian Assault Team

 

But even the SM and Orks offer an number of bodies that can be used to a fantastic effect for Straken with Staging Ground:

- Tactical Squad Cardinis

- Goff Boyz

- Shoota Mob

- Evil Sunz Bikers (to come)

 

Regarding Shadowsun, it's also important to say that Heavy Marker Drones will allow her to act as a 2/7 Warlord in quite some cases.

Oh I see, it was a reference to them becoming 3 ATK with Strakken present, I got you now. 

[Killax]

Oh I see, it was a reference to them becoming 3 ATK with Strakken present, I got you now. 

 

Yep! I can understand the confusion.

 

It's often easier said that Straken can come up with a rediculous ammount of 3 ATK bodies out of nowhere with Staging Ground. 

Altough you are completely right on Straken needing to be there for this to actually happen. 

[Kaic]

Killax, I don't really want to derail the thread further, if you want to talk about Coteaz vs Straken a bit more we can do it in another thread or PM.

[Killax]

Killax, I don't really want to derail the thread further, if you want to talk about Coteaz vs Straken a bit more we can do it in another thread or PM.

 

True, altough I don't think to many mind. Altough I don't really see it as a Coteaz vs Straken situation. 

There is nothing that invalidates one of the two as far as spoilers have shown us.

[HoopJones]

From my article at http://teamsandcrawla.net/?p=4043 ...

 

I noted that he really does need strong units to counter the combat weakness of his signature squad, Death from Above was clunky, and Cry of the Wind is bonkers with Wildrider Squadron.

[Asklepios]

DFA is clunky in the needed collisions to make it work. I feel its a card that you time carefully, rather than using as soon as its available.

[Killax]

I agree and much like Warlock I feel were only a single Mobile card away.

[Sizer]

Haven't had much discussion about Baharroth in a little while, wondering what others are thinking now with some of the new cards coming out.

Here's my attempt at a DFA/Starcannon build. I read Hoop's article and realize this may not be the best route to go. I really like the idea of using Starcannon now that the Eldar and DE have more vehicle options available.

What are your thoughts?

Baharroth

Army (31)
4x Baharroths Hawks (Descendants of Isha)
3x Biel-Tan Guardians (Core Set)
3x Bloodied Reavers (Zogwort's Curse)
3x Hellion Gang (Core Set)
3x Incubus Warrior (Core Set)
2x Rogue Trader (Core Set)
2x Soaring Falcon (Core Set)
2x Sslyth Mercenary (Gift of the Ethereals)
1x Vile Raider (Core Set)
3x Void Pirate (Core Set)
3x Warlock Destructor (Gift of the Ethereals)
2x Wildrider Squadron (Core Set)

Attachment (7)
3x Promotion (Core Set)
3x Starcannon (The Howl of Blackmane)
1x The Shining Blade (Descendants of Isha)

Event (11)
3x Archon's Terror (Core Set)
2x Cry of the Wind (Descendants of Isha)
3x Death from Above (The Scourge)
3x Gift of Isha (Core Set)

Support (1)
1x Banner of the Ashen Sky (Descendants of Isha)

I wonder if this would be better dropping the DFA/Soaring Falcon/Vile Raider and looking to include:

2x Vectored Viper Squad (I know!! Gasp!! But it is another pseudo mobile that can take a starcannon)
1x Rogue Trader
2x Empower and 1x Foretell or maybe 3x Nullify or some combination of those 3 cards?

Thoughts? I'm really looking forward to trying a warlord that really adds the movement shenanigans Eldar are known for.

[dfwiii]

Don't forget that Starcannon is limited to Eldar vehicles.

[Sizer]

Gah! Good point, I missed that. Hrm, I will retool and look at Tau and we'll just forget that last list ever happened

[Sizer]

Okay, first attempt was a no go.

Went back to the drawing board and moved to Tau allies. I think the mobile + tense negotiations could open up some really interesting plays using battle abilities.

Baharroth

Army (33)
4x Baharroths Hawks (Descendants of Isha)
3x Biel-Tan Guardians (Core Set)
3x Black Guardians (The Scourge)
3x Earth Caste Technician (Core Set)
3x Iyanden Wraithguard (Core Set)
3x Rogue Trader (Core Set)
3x Vash'ya Trailblazer (Core Set)
3x Vior'la Marksman (Core Set)
3x Void Pirate (Core Set)
3x Warlock Destructor (Gift of the Ethereals)
2x Wildrider Squadron (Core Set)

Attachment (7)
3x Ion Rifle (Core Set)
3x Promotion (Core Set)
1x The Shining Blade (Descendants of Isha)

Event (9)
2x Cry of the Wind (Descendants of Isha)
2x Empower (The Howl of Blackmane)
3x Gift of Isha (Core Set)
2x Tense Negotiations (Zogwort's Curse)

Support (1)
1x Banner of the Ashen Sky (Descendants of Isha)

So the idea here is to use Warlock Destructors, Black Guardians, and ion rifles to bully planet 1 where needed. You can then use the Hawks and the good cheap Eldar and Tau to fight for command. If a big battle is eminent, then you can swoop in with all the Hawks + Warlord to back up your Destructors and Guardians.

The main worry here is that the cost curve is high due to Baharroth's signature squad.

I wonder if dropping the Wildriders here for Bor'kan recruits might be a better play though they don't benefit from an empower...hrm I need another solid 2 drop from Eldar would be ideal.

Thoughts?

[VonWibble]

Seems a good idea. If you do swap to Bork'an Recruits then I would remove Empower and replace with Superiority, which, combined with the good command in the deck could allow a good choke on the opponent.

[TimeZero]

When i see a Baharroth deck without Death from Above, I die a little inside each time. I believe Dark Eldar is better than Tau for splashing a faction. Archon's Terror offer good control and Incubus Warrior is great to control command and has good stats to be aggressive. I still think we're missing 1 other Mobile unit to make the deck thick. We can hope the unique unit from the Deluxe is the missing piece.

[Sizer]

I agree with you. After looking it over, the DE 2 cost units are much better. I still wouldn't put DFA in it just yet. Like you say, I think we need 1 more solid mobile unit.

I think we need one of the statistically inclined folks to give us the numbers on how many Mobile units we need to help mitigate drawing dead with DFA. Hrm, how can we get Asklepios interested in running the numbers for us?

[Sizer]

Okay. I decided to dust off my maths and try and do a little figuring myself. At this point, with DE allies the only Mobile targets for DFA are Vile Raider, Soaring Falcon, and Baharroths Hawks. Am I missing any?

If we sold out in DFA and included all of those units, that's only 10 targets.

I could be wrong here, but I definitely feel like if you're going this route you need at least 1 mobile unit in your hand with 1 DFA. The reason here is that going in at the last planet you're giving up 2 cards to get essentially a 2-3 resource discount.

Yes, those units will generate some impact in the command struggle since they are all 2 hammers. However without the signature event, they will only be able to contribute to battle by planet 3. This would mean you could be severely handicapped if the planets had 3 icons on the first few planets. Though it may balance out with you dominating command on the later planets, it's hard to say if that works in practice.

So even if we had 12 mobile units, the chance of drawing both DFA and a mobile unit is ~65% in your opening hand without a mulligan. With the 10 we have now it's ~60%.

That's seems reasonable. However I just worry in practice that you may have lost the game if you do get the early DFA and the flop doesn't favor a long game or if you don't get the combo. Also you are potentially really raising the cost curve of your deck though as well and that could have negative impacts.

I would love for DFA to work, maybe it is just a 2x include to help catch up if you're behind?

Anything I'm missing here? It may be one of those things I need to see in practice to see if it works favorably or not.

[TimeZero]

With the current Mobile count, i'd still go with 3x DFA because if you go with 2 instead, it's not really better to have the Mobile unit, but no DFA. A 1st turn turn DFA is really strong since you'll be able to easily cover planet 6 and 7 on the subsquent turns if needed.

 

When I include cards like DFA in my decks, I always ask myself: "Do I have enough of those to afford discarding it if I need an emergency shield?" That's why i'd still run 3.

[HoopJones]

I'm not convinced on this guy until we see what else eldar have access to next pack; a great mobile unit is crucial for this guy. I think his signature squad is quite weak so I'm hoping for something that buffs mobile units