127 replies to this topic

[pantsyg]

I've been theorizing a lot today, and I got to thinking about the tactics arms race that's gone on lately. My questions:

 

1. Do you think tactics play too great a role in the game?

 

2. If yes, how would you make a subtle rules change to make them less impactful?

[Jarratt]

1. Sure but is that really a bad thing.

Jedi possibly received to many black tactics on harder to kill units and they have a lot more shielding than most factions. Before then only Palpatine was truly scary. He does cost 6 though. I guess the problem with Palp in the early days was the idea that once he was down the game was virtually over.

2. The simple answer if you can only tactics units in the engagement. Personally that takes most of the exciting play out of the game.

[Rio]

Tactics are fine as is. Just learn to play around them.

[life]

 I think fantasy flight would balance tactics for each card they make.

[SeeThreebilbo]

I'm kinda torn. Tactics can get crazy, but I also think that limiting them to participating units takes a looooooot of the strategy and tension from the game. I can only trust that FFG will notice the issue and create a few less tactics units or come up with cards that can goof with tactics or focus tokens.

[Scottie]

Limiting tactics to participating units would heavily reduce interaction between the two opposing sides of the game.

[JustinMcBride]

Limiting tactics to just units in the current engagement would be absolutely terrible. On the flip side, a dark side version of Leia core that only worked on the opponent's turn would be sweet

[Caal]

Limiting tactics would likely get the game closer to Magic... Why play Star Wars, then?

[TheNameWasTaken]

Tactics needs to be tamed by cards, not by rules. The rules are great. Though I would like to see a form of protect that worked for tactics, and that would probably be defined as its own keyword, thus extra rules...

[medfreeman]

I think navy should get a new SD or something, immune to tactics, with white blast and black guns in a high edge set.

[yodaman]

I think tactics are one of the most interesting parts of the game and should be left as is.    Personally, I just would like to see DS get the Protection fate card in more sets or perhaps a card similar to something LS has that would enable a DS player to potentially put a shield on a unit. 

[BobaFett]

Navy needs a security control center.

[brimmstorm]

Navy needs a security control center.

Asteroid Pursuit has the chuds that give shields. Endor Gambit has the enhancement that gives shielding and the officer guy gives shields too.

[pantsyg]

Asteroid Pursuit has the chuds that give shields. Endor Gambit has the enhancement that gives shielding and the officer guy gives shields too.

 

I think Endor Gambit has been seriously undervalued for awhile, and is due for a comeback. All the cards are pretty tasty in the current meta.

[KennedyHawk]

Navy's problem is not lack of security control center. I swear its the same thing people said about Scum pre-BTS. Scum needed everything, resources, force holders, better events, better mains, better chuds, more shields, more elite, yadda yadda yadda. Now that Navy is bottom of the totem pole it's the same thing.

 

Let's look at DS shields

 

Navy has 7 sources spread out over 5 sets.

-Endor Gambit Officer

-Endor Gambit Enhancement

-Death Squadron Star Destroyers x2 (in one set)

-AT-AT's x2 (in one set)

-Big AT-AT x1 (in one set)

-Blizzard AT-ST x2 (in one set)

-Family Connections

 

Sith has 3 sources spread out over 3 sets

-Mara

-Coruscant Defense Fleet

-Delta One

 

And Scum with 3 sources spread over 3 sets

-Black Sun Headhunter in 2 objective sets

-Protection fate card in the mostly useless Shadows or Nar Shaddaa

 

Neutrals have two options both of these combo with Navy better than any other faction

-Sabotage in the Snow (a great inclusion for a shields and counter shields meta)

-Asteroid Pursuit (not optimally designed set but tons of synergy for shields and cheap ones!)

 

I see no way we can argue that Navy needs even more shields. If anything this proves that having tons of shields and easy ways to get them into play doesn't make the faction viable. It takes quality units to shield as well as quality force icon distribution on cards that are unlikely to see play. The number of navy cards that are the garbage card in the set with only 1 icon is insane compared to the sith 2 icon count garbage cards.

[KennedyHawk]

I think Endor Gambit has been seriously undervalued for awhile, and is due for a comeback. All the cards are pretty tasty in the current meta.

 

I'm telling people Endor Gambit, Veers, and @@'s are actually pretty awesome.

 

You can keep your hand size up to defend, provide a ton of shields and have a good ammount of unit damage to deal with Jedi mains and event strong vehicles.

 

If @@'s weren't limited to IN affiliation it's be great to slot a Delta 1 in for more shields.

 

Personally I'm wanting to try, @@, Veers, Endor Gambit, Victory or Death, Deploy the Fleet

 

You might drop DTF for a Sabotage in the Snow Repair and Refurb combo but I like it as is.

 

You end up with:

-A ton of shields

-lots of 2-3 unit damage units that may survive a Jedi assault, many of them have shielding.

-A reasonable amount of resources and reducers

-Good edge cards or force holders from VoD and a way to clear them via Endor Gambit.

-6 navy units with tactics (white tactics but still tactics!)

-A reasonable shot at card advantage (endor AT-ST's that replace themselves, and increased reserve from Veers.)

[life]

 shields are a good way to prevent tactics  

[yodaman]

I know where you're coming from Kennedyhawk.  The thing is the shielding aspect on most of the DS cards you mentioned can be turned off by Moldy Crow being on the board making them all useless other than Family Connections (which only works for Troopers) and Protection (which only appears in 2 sub-optimal sets).  I was talking about ways to put shields on without the shielding keyword. 

[Dxopherj]

It would of been interesting if you could only use tactics on ready units, but if they were going to limit it in that way I would say it should focus any ready card and not be limited to units.

 

However, I am fine with how things are.

[BobaFett]

I'm telling people Endor Gambit, Veers, and @@'s are actually pretty awesome.

 

You can keep your hand size up to defend, provide a ton of shields and have a good ammount of unit damage to deal with Jedi mains and event strong vehicles.

 

If @@'s weren't limited to IN affiliation it's be great to slot a Delta 1 in for more shields.

 

Personally I'm wanting to try, @@, Veers, Endor Gambit, Victory or Death, Deploy the Fleet

 

You might drop DTF for a Sabotage in the Snow Repair and Refurb combo but I like it as is.

 

You end up with:

-A ton of shields

-lots of 2-3 unit damage units that may survive a Jedi assault, many of them have shielding.

-A reasonable amount of resources and reducers

-Good edge cards or force holders from VoD and a way to clear them via Endor Gambit.

-6 navy units with tactics (white tactics but still tactics!)

-A reasonable shot at card advantage (endor AT-ST's that replace themselves, and increased reserve from Veers.)

 

we've had all those sets for quite some time and they weren't beating jedi before, and they aren't going to do it now.  the reason sith, and to a much lesser extent, scum, can hold up to jedi is because they have removal.  They can stay ahead of Jedi with removal/capture and win some edge battles and utilize tactics.  navy has very little in the way of tactics and no removal except for unit damage.  With the cards jedi have access to now, that can often times be even worse. Defending against a unit with Shien training, rahn out,  the survivors out, light saber deflections, or guardians.  You can't hold the force, you can't take the force.  Your unlikely to win edge battles with no twists, and an edge deficiency of around 15+, you can't lock anything down.   

 

While shielding may not be their issue as they do have access to a fair amount of shielding already, they lack in almost every other area (force, edge, tricks, removal, protect, tactics) except blast damage, and as we have seen for quite some time now, racing doesn't work against jedi and rarely against rebels.

 

 

EDIT: i'm fine with how tactics work at the moment.  I feel like they bring a 3rd dimension to the game that games like magic and others don't have.  Navy just needs to get better sets.