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Rules tweaks to tame Tactics?

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127 replies to this topic

#21
tierdal

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It would of been interesting if you could only use tactics on ready units, but if they were going to limit it in that way I would say it should focus any ready card and not be limited to units.

 

However, I am fine with how things are.

 

honestly this is a good point. I dont think id want to see it changed but the amount of tactics you can toss on a unit gets to obscene levels =/



#22
Majestaat

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Personally, I'd like to see units with tactics icons back to being like in Core days. To me, Interrogation Droid in particular feels like a very well designed tactical unit. Palp felt abusive, but hey, he costs 6. Core Yoda and Obi weren't bad units, actually, but their sets lacked support. 

It all went ham when a bunch of 1 (and even zero) cost units started having tactics icons. Echoes Yoda and Leia are so good not simply because of black tactics, but because they can do it all for a very manageable cost. 


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#23
tierdal

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And don't forget their insane pods. Echoes yoda comes with a stealth tactics in the form of echoes

#24
starhawk77

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I think it would be neat to see more units with restricted tactics effects, e.g., "Focus tokens from this unit's [Tactics] icons may only be placed on enemy Vehicle units."

 

I also don't think FFG should ever print another 1-cost unit with tactics icons, whether or not they are edge-enabled. From a more general design standpoint, I'd allocate tactics icons to more expensive, unique cards (i.e., not Speeder Bikes). The tactics mechanic is fine, but I think some card cost/design choices that make use of the mechanic have been questionable.



#25
SeeThreebilbo

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I think it would be neat to see more units with restricted tactics effects, e.g., "Focus tokens from this unit's [Tactics] icons may only be placed on enemy Vehicle units."

 

I also don't think FFG should ever print another 1-cost unit with tactics icons, whether or not they are edge-enabled. From a more general design standpoint, I'd allocate tactics icons to more expensive, unique cards (i.e., not Speeder Bikes). The tactics mechanic is fine, but I think some card cost/design choices that make use of the mechanic have been questionable.

 

So something like Interrogation Droids, then? I like those.

 

I think cost/tactics ratio is an interesting point, as well. The Galactic Scum are a case in point. I'm guessing the rationale is that the Bike might self-destruct and the Scum can take damage despite their high health if Scum loses the Force, which is never a sure thing for them.



#26
starhawk77

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Yeah, I just don't think most of the cheap tactics units have enough of a drawback to offset their efficiency. Galactic Scum, Hired Hands, etc. are still bargains even with their built-in damaging/discarding effects. I don't actually think Speeder Bike is super OP--it's really good, but I don't know that it's significantly better than the Speeder Tank from Prep for Battle (which is merely a solid card).

 

I think Interrogation Droid is a very well designed tactics unit; it's not cheap, it has an underwhelming cost-to-health ratio, a decent effect, and a single black icon. It doesn't scream efficiency. It's a fine card, but I don't think it ever really warps games.



#27
SeeThreebilbo

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Just a thought, but if tactics units are too fragile, on the other hand, why play with them because they're the first thing the other side will gun for? I know everything is give-and-take, though, and I do see how Galactic Scum in particular can be problematic (this from someone who has two Slave Trades in a mono scum deck).

 

Tough line to walk.



#28
BobaFett

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 I don't actually think Speeder Bike is super OP--it's really good, but I don't know that it's significantly better than the Speeder Tank from Prep for Battle (which is merely a solid card).

Its significantly better......  also, its in a significantly better set as well.



#29
starhawk77

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Its significantly better......  also, its in a significantly better set as well.

It's definitely in a better set, but I disagree that there's a significant disparity between the two units. One has edge, two icons (which are effectively white), and blows up if things go poorly. The other has one fewer icon, but also shielding and no self-destruct sequence. I'd still take Speeder Bike, since two tactics in one swing is so powerful, but I don't think it's overpowered compared to the Speeder Tank.



#30
pantsyg

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I'm telling people Endor Gambit, Veers, and @@'s are actually pretty awesome.

 

You can keep your hand size up to defend, provide a ton of shields and have a good ammount of unit damage to deal with Jedi mains and event strong vehicles.

 

If @@'s weren't limited to IN affiliation it's be great to slot a Delta 1 in for more shields.

 

Personally I'm wanting to try, @@, Veers, Endor Gambit, Victory or Death, Deploy the Fleet

 

You might drop DTF for a Sabotage in the Snow Repair and Refurb combo but I like it as is.

 

You end up with:

-A ton of shields

-lots of 2-3 unit damage units that may survive a Jedi assault, many of them have shielding.

-A reasonable amount of resources and reducers

-Good edge cards or force holders from VoD and a way to clear them via Endor Gambit.

-6 navy units with tactics (white tactics but still tactics!)

-A reasonable shot at card advantage (endor AT-ST's that replace themselves, and increased reserve from Veers.)

 

That deck looks fun, but I'm too distracted by the new toys to try it out!



#31
KirdanKenobi

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One thing that's always bothered me is that tactics can be placed anywhere but shielding can only be placed on units in the engagement. This makes it more difficult to hold units back for a second attack when the other side has tactics.



#32
KennedyHawk

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That's the point though and really makes the protection fate card more than just one turn shielding, tactics are a powerful combat icon but they were designed that way to represent more tactical maneuvers in combat not just blaster fire and bombing runs
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#33
pantsyg

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That's the point though and really makes the protection fate card more than just one turn shielding, tactics are a powerful combat icon but they were designed that way to represent more tactical maneuvers in combat not just blaster fire and bombing runs

 

I hadn't considered the possibility of using the shield from Protection to protect a second attacker from tactics. Smart play. Kind of makes me re-evaluate Asteroid Pursuit too, both for the Protect and the troopers that drop a shield. I always thought they didn't make much sense since you couldn't play them during fights, but playing them to keep a unit ready for a crucial second engagement or defense is a pretty smart move!



#34
Skelton

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More Apology Accepted would work wonders for Navy SD builds.
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#35
SeeThreebilbo

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I like how they've started reprinting a few cards. I hope the trend continues and agree that AA would be a good candidate. Imperial Suppression,, too, of course.


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#36
GreedoShotFirst

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No one has found just plain numbers to be a way to counter tactics? Talon roll? Cool, I am glad you have 4 Yodas in your deck. There can only be 1 out at a time.

 

If you throw out 4 units on turn 1 with the navy you can just out numbers them. With superior numbers, you can drop a couple 181, throw in Fel and what ever else and just sit on the force.

 

Use defense protocol for Twists and unit damage when needed...

 

To me, Navy is about 1 objective set away from being everyone's main DS deck with a better than good chance at beating Jedi on the reg.



#37
BobaFett

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That's all well and good, except navy has no real way to control the board themselves, and their edge counts are no where's near what Jedi are at even with twists although the newer sets are starting to get better in that regard.

Your not going to deploy 4 units every turn and units like Yoda, obi wan, Luke, speeder bike, kyle, etc can kill and/or focus multiple units themselves.

#38
tierdal

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That's all well and good, except navy has no real way to control the board themselves, and their edge counts are no where's near what Jedi are at even with twists although the newer sets are starting to get better in that regard.
Your not going to deploy 4 units every turn and units like Yoda, obi wan, Luke, speeder bike, kyle, etc can kill and/or focus multiple units themselves.



Multiple units do help...I've seen fighters do well against jedi ever since they got 3 health ties and better resources
That sais... 4 to 7 tactics a turn is nothing to scoff at even with fel.

Jedi is out of control atm as far as control and bombs...but I agree fighters are getting there and swarms do help.

The problem is you need 4 to 6 units just to survive a spider plus yoda and still have a free defender for luke. (if you can't won't edge which is likely) and Luke will more likely than not.. not be killed by that last unit .

At best you prevent unopposed and/or one bomb depending on the edge ..at worst your defender is obliterated

#39
Teokrata

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shielding, disable icons, re-moving focus effects and units returning to hand are really good answers for tactics, all that FFG needs is to give all factions that tools and effects ;-)


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#40
KennedyHawk

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Multiple units do help...I've seen fighters do well against jedi ever since they got 3 health ties and better resources
That sais... 4 to 7 tactics a turn is nothing to scoff at even with fel.

Jedi is out of control atm as far as control and bombs...but I agree fighters are getting there and swarms do help.

The problem is you need 4 to 6 units just to survive a spider plus yoda and still have a free defender for luke. (if you can't won't edge which is likely) and Luke will more likely than not.. not be killed by that last unit .

At best you prevent unopposed and/or one bomb depending on the edge ..at worst your defender is obliterated

 

Why is every post by you complaining about spider, luke, yoda.

 

How often does your opponent build up that board, take some removal figure out how to play around it.

 

Believe it or not you can beat Jedi you just need to stop complaining about it and figures out a new angle.

 

I've seen you complain about "spider" in about 50 posts this week. Do me a favor run scum for a week with explosive charge.

 

If you really think enhancements in Jedi there's a ton of ways to deal with them. Tear this Ship apart will kill off this "spider" that haunts you and maybe open up your thinking.

 

Yes if Jedi gets every main in their deck on the board and two spiders they'll roll your face. So don't let it get to that point.


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