127 replies to this topic

[tierdal]

Why is every post by you complaining about spider, luke, yoda.

 

How often does your opponent build up that board, take some removal figure out how to play around it.

 

Believe it or not you can beat Jedi you just need to stop complaining about it and figures out a new angle.

 

I've seen you complain about "spider" in about 50 posts this week. Do me a favor run scum for a week with explosive charge.

 

If you really think enhancements in Jedi there's a ton of ways to deal with them. Tear this Ship apart will kill off this "spider" that haunts you and maybe open up your thinking.

 

Yes if Jedi gets every main in their deck on the board and two spiders they'll roll your face. So don't let it get to that point.

 

 

I think the better question is how often do you play Jedi where this doesnt happen?
 

Most games start with a spider out with its objective. Getting 1 of your 3-4 yodas (with 1-2 Yoda you seek yodas) and one of your 3 lukes out is not really an issue. Heck 50% of my games start with yoda/Luke and a spider on the board with yodas 3x resource objective.

 

And yes, there are cards that counter spider...Utini, Tear This Ship Apart, ect,,, are all amazing enhancement removers.

 

It is too bad that they exist in subpar sets that leave you just as vulnerable. You take out 3-4 good cards to add in 1 situational card and sure, you may stop a spider. Then what do you do with your death star troopers against Luke? Laugh as he pings them with an enhancement?

 

I agree that I have been harping on this - and I hope to see it improve - but anyone saying it is not an issue with the game right now is really burying their head in the sand. 

 

A 5 health 1 resource unit that can both kill a chud and tactics something else is extremely broken in this game state. Its probably one of the best cards in the game. 

 

And there are 2 cards in its pod that not only recur it from your discard but put it in to play as well. 

 

Jedi decks are insanely good right now and VERY consistent. Saying "Dont let them get their mains out" is basically saying "hope they don't draw their multiple copies of good cards in a game where you draw 50%+ of your deck every game"

 

Yes, Jedi can be beat. I've beat them, you've beat them, everyone has beat them. But statistics don't lie. Go read the recap report from the Store Champ season and tell me what pods were played the most - then tell me the game is balanced and all solutions are viable.

[pantsyg]

I think the better question is how often do you play Jedi where this doesnt happen?

 

Not sure if it's my meta or what, but I run into the Jubba/Spider set fairly infrequently. When I do see them, 50% of the time I'm running vehicles so I don't care.

 

And yes, there are cards that counter spider...Utini, Tear This Ship Apart, ect,,, are all amazing enhancement removers.

 

It is too bad that they exist in subpar sets that leave you just as vulnerable. You take out 3-4 good cards to add in 1 situational card and sure, you may stop a spider. Then what do you do with your death star troopers against Luke? Laugh as he pings them with an enhancement?

 

Tatooine Crash is hardly a subpar set; it comes with free tactics (which can act as their own Spider counter), a Twist, and Utinni. Same can be said for Lucrative Contracts (damage mitigation; Twist; Enhancement remover) and Take Them Prisoner (cheap dudes for Imperial Discipline/Tagge; Enhancement remover; strong edge count; Detained, which counters Luke). 

 

The other, simpler solution IMO is to tactics the hell out of the Spider, just like you would any other strong unit, or capture it. Both can be accomplished while it's a unit, and prevent recursion.

[tierdal]

Not sure if it's my meta or what, but I run into the Jubba/Spider set fairly infrequently. When I do see them, 50% of the time I'm running vehicles so I don't care.

 

 

Tatooine Crash is hardly a subpar set; it comes with free tactics (which can act as their own Spider counter), a Twist, and Utinni. Same can be said for Lucrative Contracts (damage mitigation; Twist; Enhancement remover) and Take Them Prisoner (cheap dudes for Imperial Discipline/Tagge; Enhancement remover; strong edge count; Detained, which counters Luke). 

 

The other, simpler solution IMO is to tactics the hell out of the Spider, just like you would any other strong unit, or capture it. Both can be accomplished while it's a unit, and prevent recursion.

 

The jubbas are still ok vs vechiles because they can hold the force while you dont risk your mains there. They work against everything save Fel.

 

The spider is AMAZING vs vehicles as you generally dont have to worry about tactics, and the vehicle cant kill the spider in 1 shot and will most likely die to it while it tactics something else.

 

Tat crash is ok...but jawas are not anti spider. Best case you win edge and tactics the spider...and have to win another edge battle...worst case the jawa is now in your hand clogging it up and the spider is tacticing palpatine or xihzor.

 

And "tactics up the spider" is really misleading to say. Blocking with palp risks your 6 cost best defender against a possible death sentence (heat, luke ping, lightsaber deflect) if you lose edge to the spider. Yes if things go your way you could pop 2 or 3 focus on it - and its out for a few turns...but you cant continue to focus it because it goes back to being an enhancement...and your tactics were not used to stop real threats like Luke or Yoda.

 

Anyways - its not about finding 1 card counters to other cards...in our pod based world you have to be able to build those counters into an actually good deck - which right now is quite hard to do vs Jedi. The other factions just lack the tools to engage them on the same level consistently.

[BobaFett]

And the spider along with every other Jedi unit can be stopped with both force stasis and hand of the emperor.

Also, you can stop saying the spider is a 1 cost unit. It's not. 1 resource only puts an enhancement on the board. Then you need 1 spare resource every turn after that for it to be a unit. So by turn 2, it's actually a 3 cost unit, then a 4 cost unit, etc etc. Granted, of you draw the objective you can get a 1 cost unit for 1 turn.

Also, the set is very low on edge, so if you run 2 sets that hurts too.

[pantsyg]

And "tactics up the spider" is really misleading to say. Blocking with palp risks your 6 cost best defender against a possible death sentence (heat, luke ping, lightsaber deflect) if you lose edge to the spider. Yes if things go your way you could pop 2 or 3 focus on it - and its out for a few turns...but you cant continue to focus it because it goes back to being an enhancement...and your tactics were not used to stop real threats like Luke or Yoda.

 

I disagree here because I've had success with this strategy, mostly with Scum because I've never had trouble winning edge as Scum. You also don't need to get both focus on the spider at once; it turns into an enhancement at the end of the phase, not the end of an engagement, so you don't have to have or risk a high-cost defender like Palp or Xizor to do the job. Handling a Turn 1 Yoda + Spider is pretty simple if you have a few Jawas or Scum on board, which is a pretty common DS opening play. Or a Black Sun Headhunter. 

 

Another strategy, based on Boba's comment above, is to use your enhancement removal to take out resources. Make them choose between a main or activating the spider. 

 

It's a very strong card for its cost, but I think it has multiple reasonable early-game counters that can keep it from spiraling out of control, even without enhancement removal, which, as I've pointed out, isn't in bad sets at all. 

 

And it seems you consider the spider enough of a "real threat" to post about it constantly, so I don't think focusing it is a waste  I treat it like I would any other high-priority Jedi threat. 

[tierdal]

And the spider along with every other Jedi unit can be stopped with both force stasis and hand of the emperor.

Also, you can stop saying the spider is a 1 cost unit. It's not. 1 resource only puts an enhancement on the board. Then you need 1 spare resource every turn after that for it to be a unit. So by turn 2, it's actually a 3 cost unit, then a 4 cost unit, etc etc. Granted, of you draw the objective you can get a 1 cost unit for 1 turn.

Also, the set is very low on edge, so if you run 2 sets that hurts too.

 

 

I disagree here because I've had success with this strategy, mostly with Scum because I've never had trouble winning edge as Scum. You also don't need to get both focus on the spider at once; it turns into an enhancement at the end of the phase, not the end of an engagement. Handling a Turn 1 Yoda + Spider is pretty simple if you have a few Jawas or Scum on board. Or a Black Sun Headhunter. 

 

Another strategy, based on Boba's comment above, is to use your enhancement removal to take out resources. Make them choose between a main or activating the spider. 

 

It's a very strong card for its cost, but I think it has multiple reasonable early-game counters that can keep it from spiraling out of control. 

 

And it seems you consider the spider enough of a "real threat" to post about it constantly, so I don't think focusing it is a waste  I treat it like I would any other high-priority Jedi threat. 

 

 

Its not just the spider. Its the cost of taking out the spider VS dealing with real threats. 

 

I disagree that paying 1 per turn is a cumulative cost. I would gladly pay 1 resource a turn to drop a 5health/tactics/2guns unit. Anyone would.

 

Yes it is low edge - but even with that set Jedi have no problem winning edge even vs Sith.

 

If I have force status or hand of the emperor...I am not using it on a spider...I am using it on luke to stop my objectives from imploding.

 

I am positive both of you have been in games where you are "damned if you do damned if you dont" against a spider. Thats not a position anyone should ever be in in a balanced card game. If it has 1 or 2 health or edge enabled tactics/guns it would be a fair unit. The fact almost no unit can just destroy it alone and many units are destroyed by it outright make it ridiculous on offense and defense, and at very little cost.

 

Then you add in speeders, 3 tactics yoda, and loyalists and suddenly you are swiming under tactics. It just gets out of control very quickly. 

[Wrath87]

Tierdal: this isn't a complaint just a statement. I've seen a lot of people give advice or say otherwise when this jedi is too strong subject comes up. What are you running as darkside?

[pantsyg]

I would think putting your opponent in, and knowing how to get out of, bad situations would be the goal of a competitive card game.

But seriously, saving your preventive events for Yoda/Luke when the spider is setting up their attacks seems a little silly.

[tierdal]

Tierdal: this isn't a complaint just a statement. I've seen a lot of people give advice or say otherwise when this jedi is too strong subject comes up. What are you running as darkside?

 

 

Tried a lot of things - Zekka/Sith Bomb, Executor/Vader builds, Ties recently. 

 

I don't even think it is a debatable fact that Jedi is the strongest faction right now across the board and that DS has a very hard time keeping up. I hope all the factions get brought up to their level - but right now its really not fun to play against Jedi decks. The tools are just not there to win consistently or to deal with their shenanigans. Watching your entire board get focused out, 1-2 defenders get focused by a spider while Luke explodes 1-2 objs with force rejuv and or size matters not is just no fun for anyone. Win or lose. 

[tierdal]

I would think putting your opponent in, and knowing how to get out of, bad situations would be the goal of a competitive card game.

But seriously, saving your preventive events for Yoda/Luke when the spider is setting up their attacks seems a little silly.

 

Depends what I had on the board. If I had a palp and blocked with him and he only sent a spider ofcourse id go in, If I win edge I lock up his board for this attack phase. 

 

If I don't have alot of tactics Id rather tact 1 unopposed from a spider and prevent a main from crippling my objs/board state....

[BobaFett]

I would think putting your opponent in, and knowing how to get out of, bad situations would be the goal of a competitive card game.
But seriously, saving your preventive events for Yoda/Luke when the spider is setting up their attacks seems a little silly.

No offense intended, but I don't think he grasps the game as well as he thinks.....

[tierdal]

No offense intended, but I don't think he grasps the game as well as he thinks.....

 

Quite offensive, but not taking it personally. Honestly, I feel the same about you considering your comments and unwillingness to admit simple facts.

 

Like you can go and look at store champ results, the majority are splits with LS wins, the most played deck is jedi. 

 

Journey through the swamp is an insanely broken pod. What amounts to a free double strike (only more versatile as it can tie up a defender), 2 units with 2 pips for edge , force, and or stripping tactics, a 1 cost (per turn) unit with 5 health 2 guns and a tactics, and a 1 cost recursion event that puts all creatures into play from your discard... Its probably the strongest support set in the game, even vs vehicles.

[BobaFett]

It wasn't meant to be, but your free to take it however.

Some of the best players in the game, guys like Scottie and others, have told you your wrong, and have attempted to explain it to you and you refuse to accept anything other than your own truth. This even after you yourself said Scottie "beat you into the ground", when you had an amazing start, but you went on to attribute that to luck.

I'd bet if you played Scottie 10 times with your " OP" Jedi deck, he beats you at least %50 of the time.

The real problem is, even if you do feel one way, that's great, your entitled to your opinion. We're just all tired of hearing it when you broadcast it in every single thread, whether it's off topic or not.

Hers a news flash, it is what it is. Constantly complaining about it and pointing it out in every thread won't change it, specially for you since you refuse any and all opposing viewpoints.

[GreedoShotFirst]

Boba is a great player. He has beat me on the OCTGN on a couple occasions.

Sorry you are struggling so much w DS tierdal. I think many of us have found a way to counter it with some amount of success.

[Majestaat]

Because it seems I have missed on a ton of tips, what DS builds (or cores, as I dislike to copy and paste decks) are faring well against Jedi?

We had a small tournament two weeks ago and I think I lost every match as DS. Granted, for some weird reason I was playing Sith, when I'm much more comfortable playing Navy or Scum.

 

I've had success with TIE rush, Walker super shields and Scum capturing mains from deck. But dunno what else is working. 

[chunkygorillas]

Because it seems I have missed on a ton of tips, what DS builds (or cores, as I dislike to copy and paste decks) are faring well against Jedi?

We had a small tournament two weeks ago and I think I lost every match as DS. Granted, for some weird reason I was playing Sith, when I'm much more comfortable playing Navy or Scum.

 

I've had success with TIE rush, Walker super shields and Scum capturing mains from deck. But dunno what else is working. 

I've been messing around with several Walker decks, with some Ties to back it up and help speed up the game with good success. LS has a lot of really good enhancements so the at-at's seem pretty good in the current environment.

 

In another thread Kennedy Hawk posted a deck I want to try, it was something like
At-AT's

Delta One

Mauler Mithel

 

Out of those 3 pods you get some pretty interesting stuff going on, to be honest I forgot the other 2 sets he included and now I seem unable to find the post (it's hard when I'm no my phone) but for now I'm going to try those 3 and experiment with some other sets.

[pantsyg]

Because it seems I have missed on a ton of tips, what DS builds (or cores, as I dislike to copy and paste decks) are faring well against Jedi?

We had a small tournament two weeks ago and I think I lost every match as DS. Granted, for some weird reason I was playing Sith, when I'm much more comfortable playing Navy or Scum.

 

I've had success with TIE rush, Walker super shields and Scum capturing mains from deck. But dunno what else is working. 

 

I've been finding success with all sorts of Scum builds. As you mentioned, deck capture has worked fairly well. I like the Zekka Bomb Sith/Scum decks, as I find that resetting the board often gives me the chance to get ahead again. I also like Snoova/Bossk/Slimy decks, which turn out to work better than I expected against the Jedi. 

 

Adding Stele (and sometimes Mithel) to a fairly classic Executor Sith build has worked well too, and often gets the opportunity to royally punish Jubba Bird sacrifices

 

I've enjoyed moving my Sith away from pure characters and toward character/vehicle hybrids; the new sets have done a great job of adapting Sith tools to the Jubba environment in my experience. 

 

In another thread Kennedy Hawk posted a deck I want to try, it was something like

At-AT's

Delta One

Mauler Mithel

 

Out of those 3 pods you get some pretty interesting stuff going on, to be honest I forgot the other 2 sets he included and now I seem unable to find the post (it's hard when I'm no my phone) but for now I'm going to try those 3 and experiment with some other sets.

 

I've built this deck but haven't tried it. The post is buried somewhere in one of the big threads that turned into something else; his other sets were Defense Protocol and Counsel of the Sith. I plan to shamelessly netdeck this and try it out, since I've been having so much fun with Stele in other decks and that build has most of the vehicles I'd want him on, enough resources to get the AT-ATs out without being your only play in a turn, and card draw besides.

[BobaFett]

I've had a lot of success with various mono sith builds. Heart of the empire has been very strong for me. Force stasis and the defense fleets are great against Jedi decks.

[tierdal]

It wasn't meant to be, but your free to take it however.

Some of the best players in the game, guys like Scottie and others, have told you your wrong, and have attempted to explain it to you and you refuse to accept anything other than your own truth. This even after you yourself said Scottie "beat you into the ground", when you had an amazing start, but you went on to attribute that to luck.

I'd bet if you played Scottie 10 times with your " OP" Jedi deck, he beats you at least %50 of the time.

The real problem is, even if you do feel one way, that's great, your entitled to your opinion. We're just all tired of hearing it when you broadcast it in every single thread, whether it's off topic or not.

Hers a news flash, it is what it is. Constantly complaining about it and pointing it out in every thread won't change it, specially for you since you refuse any and all opposing viewpoints.

 

Not sure you read my post... I had an amazing start for anything except aggression. It was my own fault for being aggressive with a single big unit against executor.

 

Scottie is a good player - and a great deck builder. That doesn't change the fact that 2 scottie's playing eachother in the last SC meta - the Jedi deck would win far more often. 

 

In fact the only times I've ever actually been able to beat scottie is in the current meta with jedi. If that doesn't tell you something - i dont know what will.

[tierdal]

Boba is a great player. He has beat me on the OCTGN on a couple occasions.

Sorry you are struggling so much w DS tierdal. I think many of us have found a way to counter it with some amount of success.

 

Ive been 5th to 4th in the 4 Store Champs I played in this season... so I must be doing "something" right. The only players who give me consistant trouble are Scottie and his group - and I don't have the ability or time to play the way they do. They are very committed and have earned their skill. 

 

I am not "struggling" with DS. Most of my games are close - but that has nothing to do with DS vs LS. I've found ways to outplay Jedi , and if they don't get the best draws and I get the tools I need at the right time (Executor/Vader out early) and dont get burried under tactics I can put up a fight. But then there are games where you have 2 defenders and they have a spider and Yoda... and what do you do vs this? The spider is going to take out one defender if not both, and then yoda will bury the rest....and its all downhill from there.