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So it's not quite clear, is Erik saying that Luke et al will automatically get discarded after being put on a non fighter speeder (say Home One) after being put there via Stay on Target? Or that they will get discarded if they lose the pilot trait via some method (after being attached via SoT)?
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Blank Attachment
Started by
Caal
, Apr 30 2015 03:34 PM
Best Answer dbmeboy , 01 May 2015 - 04:48 PM
Response from Erik:
In the case of Cularin Cultist, what defines an eligible unit for an enhancement?
An eligible target is anything that meets the enhancement requirements of the enhancement being moved. i.e. If you have an enhancement that says “Enhance a Force User unit†then you can move that enhancement to any Force User unit controlled by the same player.
1. Rookie Pilot has been put into play as an enhancement using Stay On Target. Where, if anywhere, can the Cultist move Rookie Pilot?
2. Wedge, Luke, or Black Squadron Pilot are in play on a Fighter, having used their gametext to enter play as an enhancement. Where, if anywhere, can the Cultist move them?
To any other Fighter (or Speeder, if Luke/Wedge). Fighters (and Speeders) are eligible options for these cards to enhance because of their game text. As such, the Cultist can move them to those targets.
3. Wedge, Luke, or Black Squadron Pilot have been put into play via Stay On Target onto a vehicle that did not allow them to use their gametext. Where, if anywhere, can the Cultist move them?
3b. If the Cultist can move them to a Fighter (or Speeder for Luke/Wedge), does their gametext remain blank?
If they somehow *did* get moved (can’t think of any effect right now that would do so, but being hypothetical), they would not get their text, as they entered play in a manner that didn’t grant them their game text, and being moved is not entering play, so you cannot gain the text without leaving play and then entering play again.
4. Jedi Lightsaber is on Luke Skywalker. The recently spoiled IE Tarkin blanks its (Lightsaber) gametext:
- Does it immediately get discarded for not being on an eligible target as it no longer has an eligible target defined?
Yes. A blank enhancement that is attached to another card is immediately discarded if the attachment state is illegal from either direction (i.e. if the enhanced target no longer meets the requirements or the attachment itself loses the appropriate text allowing it to be used as an attachment there).
Basically, to be attached to another card, both the enhancement being used as an attachment and the card being enhanced must meet the requirements.
4b (addendum): Enhancements that are *not* attached to other cards will remain in play if blanked. This is something that I have noted to make sure it’s added to the next FAQ.
*UPDATE WITH FOLLOW UP INFORMATION*
The pilot keyword contains the attachment permission “Enhance a friendly Vehicle unit.†If this keyword is lost (through the blanking of a printed text box by another card effect, it being stolen by some card effect, etc), you lose the permission to be an attachment on that card, and thus are discarded (same as if the Jedi Lightsaber loses the “Enhance a Force User unit†text and is discarded.)
This has the following extra consequences that are minor reversals of the previous rulings.
1. Wedge/Luke/Black Squadron Pilot on non-Fighter (or Speeder) cards.
The texts of these 3 cards means that, while you can do the Stay on Target effect to put them on any friendly Vehicle unit (they meet all the criteria to be targeted and affected by Stay on Target), as soon as they attach to a non-Fighter (or Speeder), they are in an illegal attachment state and are immediately discarded. (They don’t have the necessary “Enhance a {whatever this is} unit†text to remain.)
2. Rookie Pilot
Given that the Rookie Pilot has no legal places to stay as an enhancement by himself, he will be immediately discarded. Again, Stay on Target can place him on a Vehicle unit (he meets all criteria for the effect), but once there, he no longer has any text allowing him to remain, so he is discarded. This effectively means that the Rookie Pilot cannot pilot any ships (which is a reversal of previous understanding that was only brought to light through consideration of the pilot keywords in conjunction with textbox blanking effects).
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#22
Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:24 AM
dbmeboy
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So it's not quite clear, is Erik saying that Luke et al will automatically get discarded after being put on a non fighter speeder (say Home One) after being put there via Stay on Target? Or that they will get discarded if they lose the pilot trait via some method (after being attached via SoT)?
They will be discarded immediately if they are placed on a non-Fighter/Speeder Vehicle via Stay On Target. They will also be discarded immediately if they are on a Fighter/Speeder but then have their gametext blanked (eg via IE Tarkin).
#23
Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:48 AM
Letux
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Does card memory reset after hitting the discard?
Example. Tarkin blanks Luke's Saber I can just use its action to put it back out?
Example. Tarkin blanks Luke's Saber I can just use its action to put it back out?
#24
Posted 02 May 2015 - 06:13 AM
TheNameWasTaken
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Okay, so Wedge, Luke and BSP have limitations on where you can put them. But Baron Fel can still go on any vehicle he wants and only provide benefits if he's on a Fighter, correct?
#26
Posted 02 May 2015 - 12:42 PM
Utinni
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I think we need another errata. I want rookie pilot to have a pilot cost. Although I guess its akin to the logistics officer not being an officer
#27
Posted 02 May 2015 - 01:20 PM
doctormungmung
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They will be discarded immediately if they are placed on a non-Fighter/Speeder Vehicle via Stay On Target. They will also be discarded immediately if they are on a Fighter/Speeder but then have their gametext blanked (eg via IE Tarkin).
But this goes directly against what Erik said earlier in the post that the pilot keyword had the intrinsic text:this unit may be attached as an enhancement to a vehicle unit.
He seems to contradict himself in his post and I'm wondering if he left out a key word or two in writing such a long one. Human error and all....
#28
Posted 02 May 2015 - 01:20 PM
doctormungmung
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#29
Posted 02 May 2015 - 01:59 PM
TheNameWasTaken
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But this goes directly against what Erik said earlier in the post that the pilot keyword had the intrinsic text:this unit may be attached as an enhancement to a vehicle unit.
He seems to contradict himself in his post and I'm wondering if he left out a key word or two in writing such a long one. Human error and all....
Luke, Wedge and BSP do not have the Pilot keyword, only their own text (which does limit what kind of units they can be attached to).
And when a unit does have the Pilot keyword, it can be taken away by Tarkin, making the attachment status illegal.
#30
Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:19 PM
dbmeboy
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I think we need another errata. I want rookie pilot to have a pilot cost. Although I guess its akin to the logistics officer not being an officer
As much as I'd love for that to happen, it's not going to for the same reason Luke/Wedge/BSP weren't changed to have the Pilot keyword. That would add a new keyword into the core set and the Hoth cycle, requiring future printings of the Core set to either squeeze the keyword into the rulebook or include an extra rules insert and future printings of the relevant Hoth packs to include a rules insert. Look at it this way: it's a slight nerf to Desperation by removing a couple of ways that you could keep an important vehicle alive. Should make the people claiming that Called to Arms was too powerful happy.
@doctormungmung: TheNameWasTaken has it right. While Luke/Wedge/BSP function almost like units with the Pilot keyword, they don't actually have it themselves.
#31
Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:55 PM
Scottie
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So the end run of this is that..
The Rookie Pilot can never pilot anything.
If Tarkin blanks any enhancement attached to anything it will fall off.
If he blanks an enhancement just on the table it stays.
If the Cultist moves Wedge/Luke/BSP it has to be to another Fighter or Fighter/Speeder.
None of those units can ever been attached to something other then what thier text allows.
Anything else?
The Rookie Pilot can never pilot anything.
If Tarkin blanks any enhancement attached to anything it will fall off.
If he blanks an enhancement just on the table it stays.
If the Cultist moves Wedge/Luke/BSP it has to be to another Fighter or Fighter/Speeder.
None of those units can ever been attached to something other then what thier text allows.
Anything else?
- darthbs likes this
#32
Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:21 PM
dbmeboy
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Oh! If Tarkin blanks Dengar's text, what happens to any cards captured on him? Purely academic and only tangentially related... Erik is going to just start ignoring questions from me at this rate...
#33
Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:22 PM
Letux
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#34
Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:25 PM
dbmeboy
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This ruling isn't really that complicated, especially since Tarkin doesn't exist yet. The only functional change is that we can't use Stay On Target to put Rookie Pilot out on anything (or Luke/Wedge/BSP onto a vehicle where they would've had no text anyways).
#35
Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:26 PM
Utinni
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Seriously. I made a post to our local group since this thread might not be seen by mostGood luck to all the TOs this weekend and next!
#36
Posted 02 May 2015 - 04:53 PM
doctormungmung
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I got keyword and trait mixed up. I'm actually really disappointed by this ruling. It was so nice being able to use Rookie Pilots on Rogue Squadron Xwings. Taking a bag card and turning it into something useful was great.
#37
Posted 02 May 2015 - 05:05 PM
dbmeboy
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Well that's what we get for asking difficult questions... Erik realizing that there was an inconsistent ruling and taking our fun toys away from us. 
#38
Posted 02 May 2015 - 05:08 PM
TheNameWasTaken
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Oh! If Tarkin blanks Dengar's text, what happens to any cards captured on him? Purely academic and only tangentially related... Erik is going to just start ignoring questions from me at this rate...
The ruling has to be that those cards go away. Facedown cards are the same as rookie pilot - they have no text that allows them to be used as enhancements, and they only stay on Dengar because of Dengar's own text. Once you take Dengar's text away, there's nothing to ensure legitimate attachment state.
#39
Posted 02 May 2015 - 06:04 PM
dbmeboy
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But they're not enhancements, they're captured cards. Does Dengar need his text to keep cards captured at himself, or only to get them there in the first place?
#40
Posted 04 May 2015 - 04:07 PM
dbmeboy
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And as expected, Dengar with his text blanked will cause the attached captured cards to fall off. Specifically though, they fall off to the discard (as opposed to being rescued). This could actually be useful... if you actually ran Dengar.
