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LS / DS Actual Statistics From Store Champs/Regions

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127 replies to this topic

#41
Letux

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Iirc Chicago was pretty even throughout the day. Not sure we gathered numbers though

#42
tierdal

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And you tried to make me think this wasn't a thread griping about imbalance. Another week another complainfest.


Not gripping. Someine made a statement saying DS isn't underpowered. ..players are just bad. Which is essentially saying DS is harder to play. ..which is essentially imbalance ..no?

#43
KennedyHawk

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Not gripping. Someine made a statement saying DS isn't underpowered. ..players are just bad. Which is essentially saying DS is harder to play. ..which is essentially imbalance ..no?

 

No imbalance would be Light Side has vastly better cards than Dark Side.

 

Core sith is still powerful.

Navy Ties are powerful

Scum capture and stall is powerful. People just get stuck in a rut.


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#44
dbmeboy

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I would have to disagree that one side being harder to play indicated imbalance.  Imbalance would be when one side wins too high of a proportion of games when both sides are built and played optimally.  I'd be more surprised if there wasn't one side that was easier to figure out than the other.  There are essentially 2 different learning curves for this game, one for LS and one for DS.  I'd never expect those curves to line up exactly.


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#45
Noonerz

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If you want to play competitively, you gotta play competitive decks. LS has a lot more "fun decks" that are still relatively powerful while DS has fewer competitive options. Not everyone plays strictly competitively and will take their (I don't know) Navy Capital Ships deck and skew the numbers. 

 

My point, Competitive DS deck vs Competitive LS deck comes down to card draw on who the winner will be. Not much you ask more from in a card game


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#46
LethalHobo

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Play better


#hottakes

#47
darthbs

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In response to LS being easy to play.

I witnessed this on the FFG stream.

One player and I do to mean to pick on him. Still hadn't got the concept down that LS don't refresh on their first turn and called a TO over to confirm it.

However he was running mono Jedi which even though his lack of skill was still easy enough for him to play and be an annoyance to the DS player.

I'm more concerned about skill being taken out of the game. I want to beat the player not the deck.....not physically though.

#48
FuzzyWookiee

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I agree the game isn't imbalanced. Just favors the LS Jedi now, like before it did the Sleuths and before with Sith Control. It's kinda like basketball, and the LS Jedi are making a run, eventually the DS calls a timeout and it makes a run. 



#49
Blake333

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In response to LS being easy to play.
I witnessed this on the FFG stream.
One player and I do to mean to pick on him. Still hadn't got the concept down that LS don't refresh on their first turn and called a TO over to confirm it.
However he was running mono Jedi which even though his lack of skill was still easy enough for him to play and be an annoyance to the DS player.
I'm more concerned about skill being taken out of the game. I want to beat the player not the deck.....not physically though.

See darthbs this is where we differ I wanna beat. The player physically 90% of the time ! Mwahahahahahahaha

Naw I agree. When I introduced the game to my lil brother (23) back during mattkohls,world champion era, he said these words
"So sith is the easy button?"
When testing with him for hickory regionals he just smirked and said
"So Jedi is the easy button now?"

Someone with NO INVESTMENT in the Star Wars game felt the rolls had flipped. I won't say this ends the argument of course. But does show a unbiased opion of the game.
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#50
tierdal

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So this had obviously derailed, but honestly I just want to collect raw data from other tos if they still have them. It's interesting to look at. I really feel the amount of ls spilt vs ds splits is telling. That said I expect this to improve as the cycle moves forward and the pool expands

No imbalance would be Light Side has vastly better cards than Dark Side.
 
Core sith is still powerful.
Navy Ties are powerful
Scum capture and stall is powerful. People just get stuck in a rut.


If this were true, we wouldn't see a large part of the player base frustrated with DS.

Palps pods compared to either new yoda is a joke. In terms of costing and utility. Lightning was game winning when your 2 Luke's were your only hope to win. Now you have 3 Lukes ABC land various other methods to dominate the board. Essentially sith can't quite control like they use to and yet have not been given many new answers To keep up.

Captures even less powerful than they were when ls had a harder time poping objectives... coupled with multiple new power mains.

I like ties but they are not as consistent as jedi currently (hope vader changes that)

sad truth is ds does lack the kind of powerful cards and amazing pods ls has. Hell look at journey through the swamp. .. what even comes close to that on ds In terms of cost of units, ability to dominate board state and decent pups on top of that.

I don't think it's "vastly" imbalanced. ..but it is imbalanced enough to be a negative play experience for many.











 

If you want to play competitively, you gotta play competitive decks. LS has a lot more "fun decks" that are still relatively powerful while DS has fewer competitive options. Not everyone plays strictly competitively and will take their (I don't know) Navy Capital Ships deck and skew the numbers. 
 
My point, Competitive DS deck vs Competitive LS deck comes down to card draw on who the winner will be. Not much you ask more from in a card game


Except that you can throw together almost any of the good LS pods and best most ds decks. Ignoring meta calls, you can literally build a fun deck with yoda/swamp and whatever else aND be successful against any ds deck right now. .though that is getting better with this cycle.



  

See darthbs this is where we differ I wanna beat. The player physically 90% of the time ! Mwahahahahahahaha
Naw I agree. When I introduced the game to my lil brother (23) back during mattkohls,world champion era, he said these words
"So sith is the easy button?"
When testing with him for hickory regionals he just smirked and said
"So Jedi is the easy button now?"
Someone with NO INVESTMENT in the Star Wars game felt the rolls had flipped. I won't say this ends the argument of course. But does show a unbiased opion of the game.


Yes, and that's how I feel about the current state of the game. The difference being one speeders hit you could play around sith control. It was still gard but not nearly as bad as I feel it is right now. And this is coming from someone who did spilt ds games against great players in store champs. It's possible but you are at a disadvantage, kmho

#51
Letux

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-Ignoring meta calls, you can literally build a fun deck with yoda/swamp and whatever else and be successful against any ds deck right now.

-It was still hard but not nearly as bad as I feel it is right now. And this is coming from someone who did spilt ds games against great players in store champs. It's possible but you are at a disadvantage

 

1  I really doubt that

 

2  So you want to be able to beat great players with both sides without it being hard? If they are such great players then it should be hard to beat them.

 

Yes the Light side can just accidentally win, but so can an aggressive Dark side deck. Playing slow control as Dark can still win but you will be giving them enough time to get their deck fully operational in every single game.



#52
LethalHobo

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1  I really doubt that

 

2  So you want to be able to beat great players with both sides without it being hard? If they are such great players then it should be hard to beat them.

 

Yes the Light side can just accidentally win, but so can an aggressive Dark side deck. Playing slow control as Dark can still win but you will be giving them enough time to get their deck fully operational in every single game.

 

Dude...Try this:

 

S&S

2x Ord Mantell

2x Lobot

2x Journey through the swamp

2x Embers of hope

1x To arms!

1x Kyle Katarn

 

 

 

That deck would OWN! :P


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#53
Jarratt

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Dude...Try this:

S&S
2x Ord Mantell
2x Lobot
2x Journey through the swamp
2x Embers of hope
1x To arms!
1x Kyle Katarn



That deck would OWN! :P


So I actually put 2x Ord Mantell into a deck. It worked pretty well. It wasn't playing super competitive but it was fun to play. I didn't actually want to break the deck up to play something else.

2x Ord Mantell
2x Questionable Contacts
2x Trust Me
2x Wookie Life Debt
1x False Report
1x Gamor Run

I really wanted to butter people up with the QC or Han song could get the snipers to do work. The Snipers really never got to do work but the objective was actually insanely useful for healing QC or Trust Me

#54
LethalHobo

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So I actually put 2x Ord Mantell into a deck. It worked pretty well. It wasn't playing super competitive but it was fun to play. I didn't actually want to break the deck up to play something else.

2x Ord Mantell
2x Questionable Contacts
2x Trust Me
2x Wookie Life Debt
1x False Report
1x Gamor Run

I really wanted to butter people up with the QC or Han song could get the snipers to do work. The Snipers really never got to do work but the objective was actually insanely useful for healing QC or Trust Me


Ha. Interesting! My first thought when I try to put something together with that set (which has honestly only happened once lol) is to use free events to get the most bang for the buck. Naturally, Dash with 4 copies of holding all thr cards was my next include.

#55
tierdal

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1  I really doubt that
 
2  So you want to be able to beat great players with both sides without it being hard? If they are such great players then it should be hard to beat them.
 
Yes the Light side can just accidentally win, but so can an aggressive Dark side deck. Playing slow control as Dark can still win but you will be giving them enough time to get their deck fully operational in every single game.


1) throw home one and a few ok rebel pods in with yoda and swamp. .. or speeders w/ asteroid base. Then go play atop tier sith deck. You'll see. I'm actually glad ls has such variety and can't wait till ds does as well. ..but it's painful right now

2) who said anything about anyone beating good players easy. Skill should matter the most. That's the problem. Average players can beat great players with jedi atm

3) and therein lies I think an issue with the game. ..given enough time the LS will win. You just can't prevent all damage. . And if you could they could never win. That's where the balance feels off. As ls has gotten more ways to sneak damage in through tricks, double strikes, more hp and more black blast. .. the way to slow them down (control and winning edge to disable icons) has gotten less effective. Ds just needs new ways to control. That's where tarkin and thrawn come in.

I don't think the game is beyond repair. I just find the current meta less fun due to ls strength. Heck I don't even have fun winning as ls..as it's become. ..

I send my spider...kill a defender, tactics another. Then luke double strikes and takes an objective." and even even when it's not I just need to ping a few damage a turn while grabbing board position.

#56
Letux

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Adding Home One does not count as "add in whatever else"
Home One is one of the best cards in the game to let double strike.
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#57
KennedyHawk

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3) and therein lies I think an issue with the game. ..given enough time the LS will win. You just can't prevent all damage. . And if you could they could never win. That's where the balance feels off. As ls has gotten more ways to sneak damage in through tricks, double strikes, more hp and more black blast. .. the way to slow them down (control and winning edge to disable icons) has gotten less effective. Ds just needs new ways to control. That's where tarkin and thrawn come in.

 

I thought I was done then I saw this. You can prevent all the damage it's what tactics are for. They may get some through but ultimately if the game goes on long enough the DS will win as well. They get a dial click each turn, plus they may hold the force once or twice? I think if you continuously click the dial you'll eventually hit 12.



#58
pantsyg

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I think if you continuously click the dial you'll eventually hit 12.

 

Especially if you blow up an objective or two along the way, instead of assuming you can play defense all game. 



#59
tierdal

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I thought I was done then I saw this. You can prevent all the damage it's what tactics are for. They may get some through but ultimately if the game goes on long enough the DS will win as well. They get a dial click each turn, plus they may hold the force once or twice? I think if you continuously click the dial you'll eventually hit 12.


Show me even one stream of one game where the ds never let's any blast through in the current meta. Obviously account for skill.

Yes, DS has inevitability. But with the current meta being able to hold the forve through your opponents turn is not common, and the LS has much more ways to deliver damage than the ds has to prevent it.

#60
KennedyHawk

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Show me even one stream of one game where the ds never let's any blast through in the current meta. Obviously account for skill.

Yes, DS has inevitability. But with the current meta being able to hold the forve through your opponents turn is not common, and the LS has much more ways to deliver damage than the ds has to prevent it.

 

There should be plenty of them with how slowly Jedi ramp up their blast. Take into account corrupt officials and Palace Security and the DS can easily stall to end game with very little damage. I'm not going to bother with a stream or trying to find more examples for you. I'm just going to put you back on ignore until you stop screaming about the "Spider Jubba Yodas".