127 replies to this topic

[Solaris]

One event cancel pod would go so far. Suddenly Tutoring for Yoda is a risk with consequences... and you cant ALWAYS count on recursion. It would change everything.

 

And no worries. I think sometimes people get defensive and just respond emotionally without actually reading what people write. We are all guilty of it

 

DS really needs an event that is similar to Sense for events:

 

[tierdal]

DS really needs an event that is similar to Sense for events:

 

 

[Solaris]

 

I like the Vader one better:

 

[tierdal]

I find your lack of faith disturbing!

[BakaMatt]

Oh no, did someone start up a Sense/Alter war? Quick, get a What're You Tryin' to Push On Us stack going!

[normanh]

 

[BakaMatt]

+

"The ability to control the force is insignificant next to the power of jawas."

[tierdal]

Can't beat the awesomeness of the following - just OOOZZZESSS theme

 

 

 

[normanh]

+

"The ability to control the force is insignificant next to the power of jawas."

But I played a DS control?

 

Also, is that an original Herat or a virtual card? I don't remember anything being able to cancel Control.

[BakaMatt]

Original Herat, but it was never really played.

 

About the only time I would see Control canceled was with a Sense in response to it being used against a force drain.

 

But now we're so derailed...

[tierdal]

So...anyone have raw tourne results

[Ultramarine]

I find it amusing that there are LS apologists out there, as if they don't play DS at all.  

 

 

Guys.. this is a game where we play both LS and DS, and keeping balance of both faction is of paramount importance.  Someday when LS wins 90% of the games because everybody is playing Jedi, we will be also be the ones who lost 90% of the time with our DS decks too.  Think about that.

[tierdal]

I find it amusing that there are LS apologists out there, as if they don't play DS at all.  

 

 

Guys.. this is a game where we play both LS and DS, and keeping balance of both faction is of paramount importance.  Someday when LS wins 90% of the games because everybody is playing Jedi, we will be also be the ones who lost 90% of the time with our DS decks too.  Think about that.

 

 

I think people actually believe its mostly balanced because they look at swiss results in tournes in a vacuum and see a 40/60 split. Completely ignoring player skill, the impact of sweeps on rounds ect...

 

Its why I was trying to collect this data in the first place.

 

From my small sample size (and I'm trying to remember because i am too lazy to look back a few pages) the win rates for LS outside of Splits (which are predominately won by the better player... was something like 75%. Id love to know if other competitive events showed this. If FFG is looking at just total games in a vacuum they might not be seeing the fundamental problem with DS right now.

[pantsyg]

I think people actually believe its mostly balanced because they look at swiss results in tournes in a vacuum and see a 40/60 split. Completely ignoring player skill, the impact of sweeps on rounds ect...

 

Its why I was trying to collect this data in the first place.

 

From my small sample size (and I'm trying to remember because i am too lazy to look back a few pages) the win rates for LS outside of Splits (which are predominately won by the better player... was something like 75%. Id love to know if other competitive events showed this. If FFG is looking at just total games in a vacuum they might not be seeing the fundamental problem with DS right now.

 

I don't want to speak for anyone, but the reason I personally think the "LS is soooooo OP" argument is spurious and a touch tiresome isn't because I'm looking at tourney data; it's because in my personal experience, while I've found it harder to win as DS, I haven't been losing 70+% of my DS games, and I haven't found that I get blown out in a majority of my games when I'm playing DS. My DS winrate is lower than LS, sure, but probably 60/40 LS at best, and I'm OK with that. I do wish the DS would get some strong (yes, I'd go so far as to say autoinclude) sets, just to shake up the meta and make LS more of a puzzle again, but besides from the delays lengthening the amount of time between forced innovations, I think the game is in a fine place ATM.

[tierdal]

I don't want to speak for anyone, but the reason I personally think the "LS is soooooo OP" argument is spurious and a touch tiresome isn't because I'm looking at tourney data; it's because in my personal experience, while I've found it harder to win as DS, I haven't been losing 70+% of my DS games, and I haven't found that I get blown out in a majority of my games when I'm playing DS. My DS winrate is lower than LS, sure, but probably 60/40 LS at best, and I'm OK with that. I do wish the DS would get some strong (yes, I'd go so far as to say autoinclude) sets, just to shake up the meta and make LS more of a puzzle again, but besides from the delays lengthening the amount of time between forced innovations, I think the game is in a fine place ATM.

 

Fair enough, I think you have valid points. I dont know if it is as bad as 70%. I think everyone has different expeiences and there are so many ways to look at things. But I think we all agree that DS is in a tough spot right now.

[pantsyg]

Fair enough, I think you have valid points. I dont know if it is as bad as 70%. I think everyone has different expeiences and there are so many ways to look at things. But I think we all agree that DS is in a tough spot right now.

DS is definitely at a disadvantage. This annoys me more in deck building than any negative gameplay experiences; I feel more free to experiment on LS, while the DS feels more restrictive if you want your deck to be minimally viable.

[tierdal]

DS is definitely at a disadvantage. This annoys me more in deck building than any negative gameplay experiences; I feel more free to experiment on LS, while the DS feels more restrictive if you want your deck to be minimally viable.

Absolutely. We are entirely aligned in that

[Boreas]

Original Herat, but it was never really played.

 

About the only time I would see Control canceled was with a Sense in response to it being used against a force drain.

 

But now we're so derailed...

 

I played Herat in my Jawa's deck! (one of my two Jawa's decks, LS and DS).

[HaroldGodwinson]

DS is definitely at a disadvantage. This annoys me more in deck building than any negative gameplay experiences; I feel more free to experiment on LS, while the DS feels more restrictive if you want your deck to be minimally viable.

 

My regular opponent gets a little irritated sometimes when I consistently field The Emperor's Web x 2, Fall of the Jedi x2, Council of the Sith x2 plus 4 other pods (usually Call of the Cult is two of the 4 because it puts pressure on the LS and Hate is a great card) in a Sith mono deck. I do feel a little guilty about it but I usually lose with the Navy in our gaming session because they are simply the weakest faction and so I do like to have a good chance to win at least one game in an evening! TEW, FotJ and CotS seem to be the strongest overall choice for the core of a Sith deck and I feel as entitled to try to win as he does but I see his point. Recently we had a session where I made several 10 pod decks and used every single Sith pod in at least one of them. At the end of the evening, having given every single pod a run out I had done OK, lost slightly more games than I had won but it made a nice change. Nevertheless I think your point on DS being more restricted is correct.

[dbmeboy]

I've been finding CotS x2 to be less useful in the recent meta because it leaves a good chunk of my deck without a real threat to put on the table (though the card draw helps make up for that some).  It's been turning into a x1 set more often for me... though it's always a threat to jump back to x2 because it's such a good support set overall.