111 replies to this topic

[Hellsfire]

Having just gotten into the game within the past month, reading threads like this for a noob like me IS a bit disheartening. I plan on buying everything but I'm not doing so immediately. Reading things like this make me glad I'm not doing so.

 

FFG has always been slow on releasing things and tend to be quiet about it. Sometimes expansions just seem to come out of nowhere. While it's refreshing from someone who plays a Wizkids game, it does have it's downsides. I wish there was a balance between the two companies.

[Jhaelen]

OMG! OMG!! OMG!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!111!!!1

 

In other words: bla, bla, blah,...

 

The game is no longer driven through chapter packs but by deluxe boxes, each faction has its own box when Hastur is released and the previous packs are already print-on-demand.  Regional and Worlds attendance will be the lowest of most if not all of their titles (despite our best efforts) and that also reflects sales.

 

That's been the case for years and years. Sure, the print-on-demand being used for the two oldest cycles is rather recent, but that's about all.

 

I don't see anything but idle speculation in this thread just like countless times before. And even if it's the end of the line for CoC support in the form of new cards in 2016 - why should I worry about it now (or ever)? I'm completely relaxed.

[LordTeacup]

Having just gotten into the game within the past month, reading threads like this for a noob like me IS a bit disheartening. I plan on buying everything but I'm not doing so immediately. Reading things like this make me glad I'm not doing so.

 

 

 

I'd rather be disheartened for a few months than out of pocket, so I think you are approaching it sensibly, however the point of my post (given that I'm fairly certain that CoC is in its Swan Song period) is that the title is strong, that if you are into the game and there are plans afoot by community's to keep it going, then your investment will not be wasted.  I get that people don't want to consider that their game is going to finish but I have no interest in that.  My interest is in how the title could be supported and who would be up for making it happen.

 

Fail to plan, plan to fail.


 

[mnBroncos]

If your not doing tournaments it doesn't even matter if the game ends. The card pool is big enough for unlimited number of decks. I am at the point that I don't even mind if it ends I only get to play in one or two tournaments a year anyways that isn't a big difference then none. I will still enjoy this game greatly after ffg supports it. Honestly no reason to keep having these talks (I am at fault for starting them too) we are only slowly gaining handful of people, most of which aren't going to worlds or anything, and those of us who enjoy the game are going to buy everything that comes out anyways as well mine as well just keep enjoying it until the end, whenever that may be. 

[dboeren]

Sigh.  Allow me to reiterate once again...

 

1.  This topic comes up a lot.  People come in and post speculation that the sky is falling.  I do not know why it is so fashionable for people to play chicken little, but it keeps happening.  Congratulating yourself for it is kind of new though.

 

2.  Despite the pattern of this topic coming up annoyingly often for SEVERAL YEARS, the game has never ended.

 

3.  There is absolutely no direct evidence that it is ending this time either.  Seeing an FFG employee make a certain facial expression does not count as evidence.  An FFG employee failing to break their secrecy policies to tell you about upcoming products that have not been officially announced yet does not count as evidence.

 

4.  You are not doing anybody any favors by fear mongering.  Scaring away players and encouraging people not to buy in is unhealthy both for the game's profits (which keep it alive) and for the community itself.

 

LordTeacup.  You're a known guy.  You're not just some joe that blew in off the streets and is posting weird trolly stuff.  That's why I don't get where you are coming from here or why you feel that you should be patting yourself on the back for it.  I agree that all games end eventually, and that the community can keep it alive after official support ends someday.  When that day comes, I'm glad there are people who are enthusiastic enough to step in and help with that effort.  BUT, there is no reason to suspect that that day is nigh.  You seem to feel that you are protecting people by telling them that the ride is ending.  If we actually KNEW the game was ending, then you might be right.  But we know no such thing, which means that all you're doing is spreading uncertainly and undermining the health of the community.  Many of us have been around long enough to realize that it's just the same old speculation coming around again but some are not.  Some people see threads like this and get worried and stop buying.  They advise friends to stop.  The damage is very hard to undo because even if the post gets debunked and the game keeps going - the seed has been planted in those players that the game is about to end "any time now" and they would be stupid to invest money in it.  You seem to be saying that you don't want to give people bad advice to waste their money on a game that will end.  But even if you won't listen to the people that are say "but it's not actually ending", in the same breath you're talking about how the game can live a long healthy life after official cancellation with the support of the fan community.  So even if we knew it was ending for sure, it's questionable whether you're protecting people from anything significant and certainly questionable whether it's something big enough to be worth undermining the community.  Is all this really worth doing just because you think someone from FFG made a weird face at you?

[theamazingmrg]

I concur with pretty much everyone here.  There is no evidence that the game is going anywhere just yet.

 

But you're right in that it might be nice to ensure that the community keeps the game alive in whatever form.  A negative post isn't going to help you do that, though.

 

How about approaching it from a different angle?  Instead of preaching THE END, try canvassing for suggestions for alternate formats, fan-made cards, future themes, ideas from the other Cthulhu games that could be used in CoC, etc.  It could all be part of plannning for the future, but doesn't need to include the negativity that expectations of the demise of the game bring.  Positive planning will achieve the result you desire (future fan support), but without alienating the existing community or discouraging future players.

[LordTeacup]

 

....suggestions for alternate formats, fan-made cards, future themes, ideas from the other Cthulhu games that could be used in CoC, etc.  It could all be part of plannning for the future, but doesn't need to include the negativity that expectations of the demise of the game bring.  Positive planning will achieve the result you desire (future fan support), but without alienating the existing community or discouraging future players.

 

This.

[MagnusArcanis]

Seriously… this topic… again?

Fair warning, I might come across a bit agitated… mainly because I am (mostly for reasons beyond this). Also, note that I have not read even half of the posts in this thread. Please, take nothing personal should anyone feel personally attacked. Really, I don’t have the time to write this, but I’ve been asked to make an appearance so, I obliged.

There have been countless times over this game’s history that people have proclaimed that the game dead or dying. There is no difference between this thread and those past. No one ever provides any real evidence, but somehow they’re convinced they’re right this time.

So… a few points that people should consider here that may or may not of been mentioned yet.


1. FFG currently has a history of letting it’s community know a game is ending before they release they’re final version of the product. And when they do so, they tend to announce it when they announce their final product or cycle of product (in AGOT 1.0 case). The Mask of Madness came with no such announcement.

2. FFG employees can’t talk about product that hasn’t been officially announced. Thus, all you’re ever going get is a funny look and be told there is no info they can tell you.

3. Frankly, it’s still VERY possible that FFG doesn’t know what it wants to do yet. Giving each faction its own box is coming to a completion. Now they need to plan out and begin work on the game’s future themes for expansion. For all we know they’re still debating what’s next. So even if they did have plans to continue the game, they still couldn’t give you info because it’s possible they don’t even know it yet themselves.

4. FFG has never, to my knowledge, ever released a statement saying that the game is not ending.

5. FFG rarely, if ever to my knowledge, announced anything that was more than a year away from its actual release. In fact, it’s quite often less than 8 months if I recall correctly. So not hearing about what’s next after the next 2 unreleased expansions is not uncommon for us. In fact, having 2 pending deluxe expansions is kind of a new thing for us (frankly I don’t expect this to last long though due to typical FFG time tables for Cthulhu)


That being said, Cthulhu LCG is an old game. There’s no denying that fact. However, just because a game is old doesn’t mean it’s end is nigh. There is absolutely ZERO actual evidence available to us right now that would suggest that it is ending after or even soon after the hastur box. Could there eventually be some? Maybe. FFG could also be struck by lightning too. I’d say the odds are about the same.

Personally, I think it fair to warn people about buying into an old game. Simply because it’s old. It has a sizeable FAQ, it has a lot of product, etc… There are logical reasons to not buy into Cthulhu. However, one of them shouldn’t be because the game is ‘certainly’ going to end soon.

Mainly because that its doom is not impending. AGOT 1.0’s doom is impending. They’re in their swan song period. If you want to see a game that is dying soon, look at AGOT. If you want to see what happens when a LCG dies, look at the history for Warhammer: Invasion. You’ll notice that Cthulhu is currently experiencing none of those symptoms.

For Cthulhu. Come November, it will be FFG’s longest running LCG. It has survived everything else. Seriously, think about it all it has survived: (includes but is not limited to)

1. 12 or less person tournament attendance.

2. It outlasted AGOT and eclipsed Warhammer: Invasion

3. It survived the release of every other LCG on the market (there’s always the doomspeak that Cthulhu gets cut cause a new lcg is coming)

4. It survived several waves of broken decks (I only apologize for the Y-train, they rest I have no regrets lol)

5. It survived many FAQ tweaks.

6. It survived not getting a draft format when almost every other game was getting one.

7. It survived the switch from packs to boxes

8. It has survived years of less than minimum support from FFG.

9. It survived cards getting restricted

10. It survived cards getting banned

11. It survived a comparatively less active community

12. It has even survived doom threads like this.

Yet, Cthulhu is still here. Cthulhu is and has now become truly the Great Old One, literally. (puns fully intended lol)

[NuFenix]

How about approaching it from a different angle?  Instead of preaching THE END, try canvassing for suggestions for alternate formats, fan-made cards, future themes, ideas from the other Cthulhu games that could be used in CoC, etc.  It could all be part of plannning for the future, but doesn't need to include the negativity that expectations of the demise of the game bring.  Positive planning will achieve the result you desire (future fan support), but without alienating the existing community or discouraging future players.

 

Even though the Hastur box has stolen the thunder from me in terms of a Paris themed box, I still want to do a fan-made set based on the Dreamlands and Parisian art scene, featuring a combination of landmarks of Paris and locales of the Dreamlands.

[Panzerbjrn]

I think I started playing CoC about 2 years ago, and back then there were threads like this...

And yes, I can see how new players might not want to pile money I to a game with such doom and gloom posts...

Personally I love the game, but it's bloody hard to introduce people to it here in London when gaming clubs won't let you play it...

[MagnusArcanis]

Why clubs no like cthulhu?

[crackotage]

I have to agree, as a pretty new player, I think you hurt attempts at drawing in new players by speculating as to the future of the game. Instead of saying "It's likely to end in the next quarter" without it being a certain thing makes it hard to convince new players. I think everyone on here so far agrees this is not a useful discussion, and can create the situation most likely to cause the game to end, a stagnant player base with no one purchasing new stuff.

 

Also, I feel like Cthulhu is a great game for casual players who aren't looking for big investments, as there are lots of ways to change the pace and feel of games, and many viable strategies. This is a better topic for conversation: how do we get new people interested, not How do we warn them off.

[emptyvacuum]

By the same standards used in the OP Apple and Google will both be out of business by next year.

[Mulletcheese]

Whatever afterlife cthulhu gets will largely depend on FFG.

Invasion was dropped with no notice and all OP support was cancelled at the same time, which was very harsh because it takes no development time to provide tournament support. Invasion did get the promise that it would stay in print.

It's death was followed by the announcement of both conquest and diskwars. So it wasn't a complete loss for warhammer fans.


Agot was the next to be dropped but got the opposite treatment, a year of OP support and a cycle of releases.
But it'll never be printed again.
Agot will be replaced by agot 2.0


FFG love cthulhu and I hope when it no longer gets new cards that FFG treat it right. It should stay in print (unless there is a new edition) and get OP support. That way the community might still grow.

I personally don't see this ending after hastur, I don't think FFG would kill its 3 oldest LCG' s year after year. Those players who bought into agot and cthulhu would be very bitter with ffg if that happened.

[LordTeacup]

Personally I love the game, but it's bloody hard to introduce people to it here in London when gaming clubs won't let you play it...

 

Won't let you play it?  What kind of gaming club prohibits particular games?  Stores I can understand but clubs?  That's a new one to me.

[Panzerbjrn]

By the same standards used in the OP Apple and Google will both be out of business by next year.

By the Elder gods, may it be so...

 

Won't let you play it?  What kind of gaming club prohibits particular games?  Stores I can understand but clubs?  That's a new one to me.

 

The ones I approached in London (There aren't many), wouldn't let people play two player card games...
And the only store I could find, Dark Sphere, didn't sell CoC, so they didn't want anyone playing there...

[LordTeacup]

Very harsh.

[dboeren]

Or, if there's a game people want to play in your store that you don't carry then maybe you could talk to them and find out what you can start stocking to sell to them?  Just a thought...

[Skelton]

Remind me to never go gaming in London.

[theamazingmrg]

The ones I approached in London (There aren't many), wouldn't let people play two player card games...

And the only store I could find, Dark Sphere, didn't sell CoC, so they didn't want anyone playing there...

And yet every other store I've ever experienced (in the North West, so a completely different world from London!) have been more than happy for people to bring in new things to demo and play, and would be more than happy to order stock if people were interested.

 

It's one thing to say "I don't stock this because there aren't any players."  It's something else entirely to say "I don't stock this so you can't play it!"