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No news of the future of CoC

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#61
ultimate26

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What do you guys prefer? continue with deluxes forever or 2.0 version after hastur?



#62
MotoBuzzsawMF

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What do you guys prefer? continue with deluxes forever or 2.0 version after hastur?

 

Me being a in the rafters lurker, I would love to see a 2.0. But I am sure many would not. 



#63
LordTeacup

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I'd prefer to see it expand.  Perhaps for another year or so.  Introducing themed deluxe boxes and engaging with new cults and creatures.  The beauty of the Call is that it is mostly free to be messed around with.  A few more recent authors own the rights to some elements (certain monsters, characters) but for the most part you can do whatever you like.  Natrually FFG will want to keep things in step with their own IP that you find in Mansions, Elder Sign, Arkham Horror etc, but thats fine, they are pretty good.

I'd be happy to see another, wholly different CoC themed card game as well, if they had a good system.



#64
dboeren

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I don't see how a 2.0 is possible.  There isn't enough fan base to support a reboot.  What I expect will happen is that FFG will keep putting out more boxes until the end, whenever that will be.

 

I don't think that Cthulhu has the issues that Thrones 1.0 has either which require a reboot to correct.

 

Frankly, if a 2.0 DID come out (although I do not believe this is possible) I would just keep playing what we have now.  It will be many years before a new game would approach the richness of what we have today.


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#65
Nightmare588

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What do you guys prefer? continue with deluxes forever or 2.0 version after hastur?


probibly going to get flamed for stating my oppinions again, but i personally think that Call needs a 2nd edition DESPERATLY. trying to explain this CoCs quirks are bad enough, but the fact that there are so many exceptions that are not clearly defined has turned more than a few people in my area off from the game. establishing a clear definition of how targets, triggers, and durations work will go a long way towards bringing the game back under heal for newer players. even i get frustrated when i have to stop the game and look through the faq and online for 20 minutes only to find yet another exception to the rules of how committing works...

that being said, i am not familliar at all with the issues that cause A Game of Thrones to get a second endition. and i have no idea how to fix the myriad of rules issues, i have simply seen, first hand, how the rules issues have turned people, and entire shops, off of this game.

and now, i shall duck as i see your allready grabbing for your tomatoes.

also, sorry about my spelling, im writing this at work and in a hurry
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#66
LordTeacup

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Whether to reboot or expand is a matter of preference so there is no need for people to start throwing missiles.  Having played AGOT and being in the 'No Reboot' camp I can still see why players would prefer to go the other way.  Its the same with CoC, although trust me, the issues are far less endemic.  

 

I think the errata's work well enough for veterans but an argument could certainly be made for new players being better off with a whole refresh.  Still, I'm against it.



#67
Nightmare588

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is there perhaps a thread someplace that summerised the issues with AGOT? being someone who never played the first editon, but is extreemly interested in 2.0. id love some insight
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#68
MotoBuzzsawMF

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is there perhaps a thread someplace that summerised the issues with AGOT? being someone who never played the first editon, but is extreemly interested in 2.0. id love some insight

 

Think about it this way. There is a great TV/video game console/computer that you want to watch/play/use. You can see it and touch it and it is amazing and lovely, but to get it started, you have to untangle 40 feet of wire with mittens on. 

I loved 1.0 but some of the rulings in the game were downright silly. I have actually found CoC rules to be quite solid. 


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#69
Cumber

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With the sheer amount of cards behind GOT 1.0 (12 cycles against COC's 7) there were so many potential game breaking combos and unforeseen possibilities with each new set of cards coming out. 

 

The GOT license is popular right now thanks to the show and source material and I think they saw the buy in for new players and the weight of the system and decided to provide a new place for people to start. 

There has been nothing like that to boost Call of Cthulhu besides the a slightly increased presence of the mythos in other new games.  That unfortunately just means Cthulhu fans have more competition for their money, rather than bring a new audience in. 

 

I think a CoC 2.0 would be a waste of their resources especially if they don't even get all the 1.0 players back.


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#70
OKTarg

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is there perhaps a thread someplace that summerised the issues with AGOT? being someone who never played the first editon, but is extreemly interested in 2.0. id love some insight

I don't want to derail Lord Teacup's thread too much, but I can provide a quick overview of the Thrones reboot. Short version: 2.0 Thrones is going to be amazing.

 

Issues with Thrones 1.0
 

1. Thrones, like Cthulu, was a CCG that transitioned into the LCG model. While the new distribution model really helped, the initial design for the Core box and first cycle was not well thought out compared to modern cores. The first cycle of cards is also terribly imbalanced since it was no longer balanced by rarity.

 

2. Thrones has a giant cardpool. Core Set, 6 deluxe boxes, ten cycles of CPs, with many disparate purchases required to be competitive. This created a burden for new players.

 

3. Not only was the $$$ required for that large cardpool significant, so too was the meta knowledge and learning curve. Basically, new players got crushed for a long time, quit, or never tried in teh first place, especially alongside newer, cheaper LCGs like Netrunner or Conquest

 

4. The rule system was, while functional and clever, not clear at all. The timing issues and wording on cards were extremely opaque for all but the most devoted rules lawyers. This likewise turned off new players. (example: a card that canceled character abilities can't cancel abilities on characters if they are in your hand or in shadows (an out of play state). That makes sense if you know why, but is not the most reasonable or obvious ruling for new players) #moribund

 

5. The Thrones IP and license is very hot right now, but the game was not new player friendly. A simple rotation wouldn't fix most of the above issues, especially since the game was not designed with rotation in mind. 

 

6. The game was well-loved (still is) but needed a new entry point and a cleaner rule system. Cthulu seems to be more friendly on both of these counts. 


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#71
dboeren

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I'm not a Thrones player, so mainly I just vaguely overhear things.  Moribund is supposedly one of the issues, it's sort of a special card state that happens when a card is destroyed but it sort of hangs around in this half-dead state for a while and some effects work and others do not until it finishes being destroyed later on.  You'd really need to talk to someone that plays for more specifics, or poke around the Thrones forum.

 

Cthulhu may have some cards with unclear wording or complex situations or whatnot, but I can't really thing of any core rules issues.


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#72
badash56

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I've always thought they could re-boot the game with new branding - call it 'Eldritch Horror the Card Game' to tie it into the rest of their Lovecraft line.  But, I agree with dboeren, I don't see that happening. 



#73
Yipe

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I definitely don't want to see a CoC 2.0.  I feel the current card pool is well balanced, the rules manageable and the gameplay satisfying.  Of course, that's from the standpoint of a longtime collector (and someone who feels a little burned by the AGoT reboot).

 

At first glance I felt relaunching CoC would be a death knell for this game, but on second thought I wonder if that's actually the case?

 

LCGs have grown in popularity, acceptance and overall visibility (especially to the Magic crowd) since the release of Netrunner.  I wonder if those players - who are currently looking at buying a massive catalog of CoC cards to be competitive - wouldn't dip their toes in a Cthulhu relaunch, much like picking up the Conquest or Doomtown core sets just because they're now into collecting LCGs too?

 

From a personal standpoint, I'd pass on CoC 2.0.  I love the way the game plays now and I've got a ton of cards to make an almost endless number of decks.  Still, I can see the allure if AGoT 2.0 sells well to the Netrunner or Conquest crowd (as opposed to the AGoT 1.0 player base).  That might signal to FFG that a Cthulhu reboot could succeed on fresh blood alone.


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#74
dboeren

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The flip side is that there are more LCGs around these days, and they're mostly good quality too.  That divides your player base so you've got to be careful.  If your game doesn't have a strong draw to give it a catapult start, then you're looking at a significant risk.

 

Star Wars, Conquest, and Thrones all have themes that draw people in.  Thrones already has a player base from the old game to draw on.  Netrunner and Doomtown have players of the old game to act as evangelists.  Cthulhu hasn't got enough to give it that crucial starting momentum I think and too little reason to need to reboot (lack of problems).


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#75
ultimate26

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What about a 1.5 re-launch? 

 

Errata and wording revision, reprint all cards with errata and such? update the art on some of the cards


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#76
emptyvacuum

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What about a 1.5 re-launch?

Errata and wording revision, reprint all cards with errata and such? update the art on some of the cards


This is sorely needed, at least for the asylum packs like Summons of the Deep that seem to sell for $50+ each. After the Hastur box this is the main thing I've been eager to hear about.

#77
dboeren

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There is already a FAQ that pretty much does that.  If they took the errata and printed a pack of updated cards to replace the errata'ed ones (hopefully with their REAL printing process) then I would be interested in that.



#78
MotoBuzzsawMF

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The flip side is that there are more LCGs around these days, and they're mostly good quality too.  That divides your player base so you've got to be careful.  If your game doesn't have a strong draw to give it a catapult start, then you're looking at a significant risk.

 

Star Wars, Conquest, and Thrones all have themes that draw people in.  Thrones already has a player base from the old game to draw on.  Netrunner and Doomtown have players of the old game to act as evangelists.  Cthulhu hasn't got enough to give it that crucial starting momentum I think and too little reason to need to reboot (lack of problems).

 

I am really hoping this might change if Guillermo del Toro is successfully in getting his "Mountains of Madness" movie off the floor. He has been trying for years and rumor has it that Pacific Rim was a way to get people interested in giant horrifying creatures to better open the door for a MoM movie.



#79
Mulletcheese

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What do you guys prefer? continue with deluxes forever or 2.0 version after hastur?


Deluxes forever isn't an option, even if we get a few more years of releases it will have to end eventually.
I really don't want a reboot because that will put 1.0 out of print and make it much harder for the community to keep the game alive.

I'd prefer an all new cthulhu game to take its place, it may even help attract players to call of cthulhu after it has ended.
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#80
aronpolemic

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I would probably be royally pissed if there was a reboot. I haven't gotten to play this game as much as I would have liked and right now I'm mostly just collecting. I would be fine if the game did end soon as that means there is less for me to buy. However, a reboot would not sit well with me. I would always wonder if the newer cards might see more play, and if I was one of the guinea pigs helping FFG with one of their not-yet-seasoned forays into the LCG format.

 

I don't expect anyone else to feel this way, but that's where I am with it.