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#61 TheEmpireBringsSexyBack Posted 12 July 2015 - 11:46 PM

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oh no ~my animes~!

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#62 TheEmpireBringsSexyBack Posted 12 July 2015 - 11:57 PM

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You seem to think there is some essential cosmic right and wrong truth out there about what is good and bad...

Like two posts before the one you quoted I explicitly said, "This is my opinion.  I don't expect to change yours, and I doubt you'll change mine."

• "And as to your point about "You dont care about before or after John McClain"...thats fine? some people do.
•
• People like the universe and like to continually explore it."

Okay?  That doesn't make it good (or bad).  Lots of people like 50 shades of grey.  Doesn't make those books good.  Or edit that sentence to include [popular thing that you have no idea why it's popular/liked/well regarded."

• I cant tell if you are the best troll ever, confused, or ... what is this i don't even.

Perhaps you are in too deep my friend.  "Someone doesn't like a thing I have highly invested my life in.  Could they have a point?  Should I step back and reflect?  No, they must be trolling.  Whew that was a close one."

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#63 tierdal Posted 13 July 2015 - 03:07 AM

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Like two posts before the one you quoted I explicitly said, "This is my opinion.  I don't expect to change yours, and I doubt you'll change mine."

• "And as to your point about "You dont care about before or after John McClain"...thats fine? some people do.
•
• People like the universe and like to continually explore it."

Okay?  That doesn't make it good (or bad).  Lots of people like 50 shades of grey.  Doesn't make those books good.  Or edit that sentence to include [popular thing that you have no idea why it's popular/liked/well regarded."

• I cant tell if you are the best troll ever, confused, or ... what is this i don't even.

Perhaps you are in too deep my friend.  "Someone doesn't like a thing I have highly invested my life in.  Could they have a point?  Should I step back and reflect?  No, they must be trolling.  Whew that was a close one."

If you don't like star wars - not sure why you are even posting here? I mean I love the game mechanics but you seem to dislike them as well?

I actually havn't read most of the books, but I did enjoy the clone wars series and am enjoying the comics and rebels.

You seem to think they are bad.... I disagree...they are objectively not "bad". You may not like them and that is fine - you can enjoy other things... like John McClaine.

Your trolling seems to come from statements like " "Someone doesn't like a thing I have highly invested my life in.  Could they have a point?  Should I step back and reflect?  No, they must be trolling.  Whew that was a close one." "

You seem to be insulting ..everyone who likes Star Wars books by calling them bad and saying they need to reflect on them and insinuating they are wasting their life by doing so.

People liking someone doesn't make it good...but you seem to think that you can insult peoples stuff by calling it bad because you personally don't like it?

I was only explaining to you that people calling their SW books "Good" is not saying they are masterpieces of literature...just that they are good star wars books - expanding a mythology they love.

#64 TheEmpireBringsSexyBack Posted 13 July 2015 - 04:19 AM

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i like star wars a lot tyvm.  i don't like the eu.

the point that got lost a while back is about folks who are like, "the prequels were bad.  the eu is great tho."

it's literally the same stuff.  if you hate them both, okay.  if you like them both, okay.  if you think there is something objective that makes one better than the other there is something off about you.  qui-gon talking about midi-chlorians is dumb, but so is steve perry's (lol. would rather it have been written by the singer) mumbo jumbo about the force in shadows of the emperor, or similar mumbo jumbo in i'm sure hundreds of other star wars books.

lucas gets called out for bad characters, but someone like thrawn is highly respected.  he was a strategic and tactical genus and figured stuff out about his enemies by looking at their art.  wow. so deep.  one of the best eu characters completely summed up in one run-on sentence.    and of course comparing things between media itself isn't fair since they each have different strengths and weakness as far as story telling goes.  as well as the different motivations behind the creation of the different media (i.e. george lucas combining a hero's journey with 50s b-movie scifi to make the movies vs. books written to be star wars stories)

i think it was yoda who said, "is the unexamined life worth living?"  if I say the EU (or ~ANIME~) is dumb and here are some reasons, there are many ways to react.  to start hyperventilating, only to get your heartbeat under control by dismissing all points as trolling is not the healthiest way IMO.  A better way might be an algorithm of Do they have a point? Does it matter?  Do I care?  Spoiler: If you like something most of the time it shouldn't really matter to you if random person on the internet does or doesn't like something you like.  Like padme said, "Shake it off."

Apologies to everyone out there having to read this stuff.  I am as sick of it as you are all too.  In fairness it does seem like most threads end up as prequel/EU/other arguments at some point if the survive long enough, so it's might be considered on-topic... from a certain point of view

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#65 tierdal Posted 13 July 2015 - 04:28 AM

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i like star wars a lot tyvm.  i don't like the eu.

the point that got lost a while back is about folks who are like, "the prequels were bad.  the eu is great tho."

it's literally the same stuff.  if you hate them both, okay.  if you like them both, okay.  if you think there is something objective that makes one better than the other there is something off about you.  qui-gon talking about midi-chlorians is dumb, but so is steve perry's (lol. would rather it have been written by the singer) mumbo jumbo about the force in shadows of the emperor, or similar mumbo jumbo in i'm sure hundreds of other star wars books.

lucas gets called out for bad characters, but someone like thrawn is highly respected.  he was a strategic and tactical genus and figured stuff out about his enemies by looking at their art.  wow. so deep.  one of the best eu characters completely summed up in one run-on sentence.    and of course comparing things between media itself isn't fair since they each have different strengths and weakness as far as story telling goes.  as well as the different motivations behind the creation of the different media (i.e. george lucas combining a hero's journey with 50s b-movie scifi to make the movies vs. books written to be star wars stories)

i think it was yoda who said, "is the unexamined life worth living?"  if I say the EU (or ~ANIME~) is dumb and here are some reasons, there are many ways to react.  to start hyperventilating, only to get your heartbeat under control by dismissing all points as trolling is not the healthiest way IMO.  A better way might be an algorithm of Do they have a point? Does it matter?  Do I care?  Spoiler: If you like something most of the time it shouldn't really matter to you if random person on the internet does or doesn't like something you like.  Like padme said, "Shake it off."

Apologies to everyone out there having to read this stuff.  I am as sick of it as you are all too.  In fairness it does seem like most threads end up as prequel/EU/other arguments at some point if the survive long enough, so it's might be considered on-topic... from a certain point of view

Really not sure what your point is. It sounds like you are saying "Everything you like is crap, but it shouldn't matter as long as you like it".

Objectively "qui-gon talking about midi-chlorians is dumb" is itself a flawed statement.

Midi-chlorians are actually one of the best concepts and story telling devices from the prequels and do a great job of showing (and not telling) us that these jedi were much more advanced and at the height of understanding when it came to the force from a scientific view. Meanwhile Luke just things its mysticism and magic.

We get it, you don't like them. But your statements are inflammatory, insulting, and blanket with no attempt to provide any sort of argument for your views" Saying "The novels are all terrible (assuming you are no longer a dumb tween/teen) " accomplishes nothing except to serve as troll bait.

He's a troll, though not the best IMO. His first two posts on this page served no purpose except to bait anime fans like myself, while his later post I'll quote below directly challenged its own position...that is, unless you actually believe he has read every Star Wars novel to have seen print, and hated them all.

Also, he likes his own posts. Seriously, who does that?

heh =/ Is your avatar from Eva?

#66 Jarratt Posted 13 July 2015 - 06:27 AM

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Midi-chlorians are actually one of the best concepts and story telling devices

Nah Midichlorians are pretty dumb. They are just another bad scripting part of the first film. It's trying to explain magic and mysticism as science.

Star Wars isn't exactly science fiction. It space opera, it's cliffhanger, it's magic in space.

Having said that I don't completely disagree with you. I like that Qui-Gon as a character comes at this from a scientific point of view.

I just think the concept is flawed, sounds silly and is delivered via the script in a bad way. It doesn't help that the scene pretty much follows the tragically awful Ani Padme "I'm so cold" scene.

I don't really want to get into prequels vs originals vs clone wars. I do feel that The Clone Wars conjured up fantastic imagery when it was first mentioned in Episode 4 and no matter how great Ahsoka is or how great some of the arcs were in The Clone Wars show (some are pretty terrible, season 4 I'm looking at you), it just wasn't the galactic conflict I imagined.

It's too much politics and too much war movie. It just doesn't feel like the epic conflict of ages past. It's just a whole lot of fighting for fighting sake.

Does it matter in the end? Not really. I can still enjoy some of the stories and some of the moments. Others can enjoy it even more than me.

I think at the end of the day we all like Star Wars. We might like different bits but we all like it. Does it really matter that much beyond that?
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#67 IdeYoshiya Posted 13 July 2015 - 11:43 AM

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qui-gon talking about midi-chlorians is dumb, but so is steve perry's (lol. would rather it have been written by the singer) mumbo jumbo about the force in shadows of the emperor, or similar mumbo jumbo in i'm sure hundreds of other star wars books.

Confirmed, there are in fact "hundreds" of Star Wars books he has not read when making his judgment for all of them. This fan guesses the Medstar Duology is among them.

I believe it's a character from Darker Than Black (think X-Men meets 007), but I honestly just chose it to be mildly reminiscent of my avatar on the official FFG forums, while drawn in a more characteristically manga style.

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#68 tierdal Posted 13 July 2015 - 03:00 PM

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Nah Midichlorians are pretty dumb. They are just another bad scripting part of the first film. It's trying to explain magic and mysticism as science.

Star Wars isn't exactly science fiction. It space opera, it's cliffhanger, it's magic in space.

Having said that I don't completely disagree with you. I like that Qui-Gon as a character comes at this from a scientific point of view.

I just think the concept is flawed, sounds silly and is delivered via the script in a bad way. It doesn't help that the scene pretty much follows the tragically awful Ani Padme "I'm so cold" scene.

I don't really want to get into prequels vs originals vs clone wars. I do feel that The Clone Wars conjured up fantastic imagery when it was first mentioned in Episode 4 and no matter how great Ahsoka is or how great some of the arcs were in The Clone Wars show (some are pretty terrible, season 4 I'm looking at you), it just wasn't the galactic conflict I imagined.

It's too much politics and too much war movie. It just doesn't feel like the epic conflict of ages past. It's just a whole lot of fighting for fighting sake.

Does it matter in the end? Not really. I can still enjoy some of the stories and some of the moments. Others can enjoy it even more than me.

I think at the end of the day we all like Star Wars. We might like different bits but we all like it. Does it really matter that much beyond that?

Agreed on almsot everything except Midi-Chlorians. Ill never understand that hate train. Explaining magic is what we do - we use to believe the son was a god, now we know its just a big burning engine or atoms.

Knowing that a person is force sensitive for a reason - and one that is past down through generations - doesnt detracted from the nature of the force. Having an indicator on someones force ability doesn't explain away why it allows you to do amazing feats.

Its honestly one of the least bad things about the prequels and people trump it up as the worst part.

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#69 SmokeyJ Posted 13 July 2015 - 03:47 PM

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Agreed on almsot everything except Midi-Chlorians. Ill never understand that hate train. Explaining magic is what we do - we use to believe the son was a god, now we know its just a big burning engine or atoms.

Knowing that a person is force sensitive for a reason - and one that is past down through generations - doesnt detracted from the nature of the force. Having an indicator on someones force ability doesn't explain away why it allows you to do amazing feats.

Its honestly one of the least bad things about the prequels and people trump it up as the worst part.

I can't disagree with you more. Pretty much every scene from Empire on Dagobah with Yoda training Luke is made complete garbage by the concept of midichlorians. "Size matters not, only the arbitrary number of cellular organisms inhabiting your body."

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#70 tierdal Posted 13 July 2015 - 04:01 PM

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I can't disagree with you more. Pretty much every scene from Empire on Dagobah with Yoda training Luke is made complete garbage by the concept of midichlorians. "Size matters not, only the arbitrary number of cellular organisms inhabiting your body."

But its obvious that SOME people are stronger in the force. So how do you explain that?

I might have a different perspective on this as I practice Zazen (Buddhist meditation). We can scienfically understand the processes that are involved in meditation...it doesn't take away the spiritualism of it. And there are some brains that , genetically, are better at meditating than others...just like every other facet of life.

Yoda was trying to open Luke mind to the impossible because his own thoughts of not being able to do it were holding him back. But taken to the extreme do you feel a Jedi has no limits? That would be crazy and not at all what comes across in the SW universe. Why wouldn't Yoda just be god at this point? People have limits, people have differences...and MidiChlorians explain why some people have a stronger connection to the force than others.

#71 SmokeyJ Posted 13 July 2015 - 04:08 PM

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"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter, except the crude matter that determines how connected to the force we are."

Look, midichlorians don't bother you; fine, but frankly, you aren't going to convince people who think otherwise. For us, they completely contradict everything about the force as presented in the original trilogy.

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#72 tierdal Posted 13 July 2015 - 04:14 PM

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"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter, except the crude matter that determines how connected to the force we are."

Look, midichlorians don't bother you; fine, but frankly, you aren't going to convince people who think otherwise. For us, they completely contradict everything about the force as presented in the original trilogy.

Not looking to convince anyone. Just stating my opinion. Totally get your point...I just choose to look at it differently.

We are luminious beings, and our essense is held in our medichlorians, and with enough understanding and control we can live on through them.

Again - Yoda is talking to a kid who doesn't understand the science and trying to explain to him conplicated things quickly and break through his own mental barriers.

He didn't grow up seeing people jump 30 stories, or deflect blaster bolts, or float X-Wings with his mind. He's a backworld farm boy.

#73 chiller087 Posted 13 July 2015 - 04:19 PM

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I'm preparing my thesis on Midichlorians, specifically the mental damage and emotional scarring this so-called travesty may or may not have caused. We used a rigorous scientific methodology to come to our conclusions, including experimental setup and model equations to correlate our data. Our test subject, while almost becoming one with the Force himself during our trial period, provided us with invaluable evidence as to the nature of this beast.

Strapped to a chair with eyes forced open via mechanical apparatus, and kept awake through the use of psychotropic drugs, our test subject was exposed, without any ocular protection, to all three prequel movies within a 12 hour period, repeatedly over a span of several days. After this experience, we asked our test subject 2 simple questions. The first was:

1. How did you feel when you found out that the Force is just microscopic organisms, and not the magical mystery you had grown up believing it to be?

His answer: "I felt pretty awful."

2. "What did you think of the creator of this accidental masterpiece after this realization was forced upon you?"

His answer: "I felt like the creator had $#!+ the bed." After assimilating this data into our think tank, we felt no further testing was necessary. The data and conclusions are clear. Midichlorians are, without a doubt, an unhealthy outcome of a franchise gone wrong in the hands of a director who has gone completely bat-$#!+ loco. Keep your childhood, and the childhood of anyone you know, away at all costs.
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#74 IdeYoshiya Posted 13 July 2015 - 05:26 PM

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The animist approach to the Force seen in ESB is neither good nor bad. The scientific approach seen in TPM is also neither good nor bad. The two are simply different ways of looking at the same energy field that is the Force. Choose one or the other to follow, or both, as you see fit. Just like in the real world, not every follower of the religion has to agree on whether science has a role in their faith. Therefore believe only what your heart tells you to, and don't criticize others for doing the same.

#75 Scottie Posted 13 July 2015 - 06:06 PM

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Midi-Chlorians were a needless plot device in order to tell us Anakin was super strong in the force. Putting a number to it as a way to do that was lazy.

Look at how Rebels let us know Ezra was string in the force, he was given the Holocron to try and open. As opposed to just giving him a blood test.
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#76 yodaman Posted 13 July 2015 - 06:25 PM

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At the risk of stirring up the debate more, there was never a time in any movie when it was stated the Midi-chlorians = the Force itself.  In TPM, Qui-Gon told Anakin that the Force spoke through the Midi-chlorians which were inside cells in people and would tell them the Will of the Force.

Personally, I think some of the plot devices used in the Prequels were done intentionally in order to illustrate how dogmatic the  Jedi had become over time.  That's not to say that I think there aren't flaws in those movies, but I think a lot of times people bash them because they weren't the OT and it's clear that Lucas never intended for them to be.

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#77 doctormungmung Posted 13 July 2015 - 06:26 PM

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Where as Ezra's character design is just lazy.  He's an amalgamation of Luke and Anakin.  Does every mainstream Star Wars commodity need an annoying force prodigy?  I can forgive Luke and Anakin, as they were central to the primary events of the greater story of the fall and rebirth of the Jedi, rise and fall of the Empire, etc.  The Star Wars universe is HUGE, they don't need to keep rehashing the same character types and tropes over and over.

\end rant

#78 chiller087 Posted 13 July 2015 - 06:48 PM

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At the risk of stirring up the debate more, there was never a time in any movie when it was stated the Midi-chlorians = the Force itself. In TPM, Qui-Gon told Anakin that the Force spoke through the Midi-chlorians which were inside cells in people and would tell them the Will of the Force.

Don't get technical with me.

#79 tierdal Posted 13 July 2015 - 06:53 PM

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The animist approach to the Force seen in ESB is neither good nor bad. The scientific approach seen in TPM is also neither good nor bad. The two are simply different ways of looking at the same energy field that is the Force. Choose one or the other to follow, or both, as you see fit. Just like in the real world, not every follower of the religion has to agree on whether science has a role in their faith. Therefore believe only what your heart tells you to, and don't criticize others for doing the same.

Well said. Well said.

Midi-Chlorians were a needless plot device in order to tell us Anakin was super strong in the force. Putting a number to it as a way to do that was lazy.

Look at how Rebels let us know Ezra was string in the force, he was given the Holocron to try and open. As opposed to just giving him a blood test.

You won't get any argument from me that Rebels is infinitely better than the prequels.

That said - TV and FIlm are different mediums. Devoting an entire episode to the holocron test in a movie just wouldn't work.

As far as bad things in the prequels go Midichlorians are near the bottom of a very very very long list.

At the risk of stirring up the debate more, there was never a time in any movie when it was stated the Midi-chlorians = the Force itself.  In TPM, Qui-Gon told Anakin that the Force spoke through the Midi-chlorians which were inside cells in people and would tell them the Will of the Force.

Personally, I think some of the plot devices used in the Prequels were done intentionally in order to illustrate how dogmatic the Jedi become over time.

Yup! There are inklings of awesomeness in those movies...which just makes them all the more tragic

yodaman