1 votes
Advanced Member
Ya, NCF is a good term for it.
They either need more nasty cards or they need more rush cards. Now that Baratheon has become more of a control house with all their kneel I guess they might become less of a rush house than Before so some other house needs that as a major theme as well and pushing challenges through it certainly a way to support rush with the right cards. That also fits with Olenna's Informant who lets you do an additional challenge thus rushing even quicker.
Advanced Member
Yeah I think this is right, they're very passive. You need to bring in PTTS and TOL to really add teeth to Tyrell, and you also need to be aware of that need when you're selecting plots because passive plots in a passive deck is asking for trouble.
And as Ingsve said they actually kind of want to be rushing, they just don't have the support cards to do that very well. At the moment.
In my personal rating I have them as the worst faction. They make a good banner but a poor main House.
Advanced Member
I am looking forward to their boost-support, bacause this is obviously direction for them. Lack of cheap and multiple Knights suggest it will not happen in First Cycle (3rd CP) but eventually Tyrells will get there.
They can rush from behind using Olenna's informant an Clash of Kings plot but it is rather dangerous to just let yourself get 4p behind.
Advanced Member
I never played the CCG, so would anyone be able to recall the Tyrell cards that were prominent during its lifespan? I've been doing some looking and can find only a few.
Just curious as to some future cards the Tyrells might see!
Thanks everyone, cheers.
Newbie
Advanced Member
Hi all, I was wondering if I am the defending player, and my opponent uses a card with the keyword 'stealth', if I high garden that card. is stealth in effect even if the card is no longer participating in the challenge?
Stealth
"Stealth is a keyword ability. When a player initiates
a challenge, for each character with stealth he or she
declares as an attacker, that player may choose one
character without stealth controlled by the defending
player. Each chosen character is considered bypassed
by stealth, and is not eligible to be declared as a
defender for that challenge."
("For that challenge" says it automatically lasts until that challenge is finished, by default.)
Looking at timing, when challenge initiation, that's step 4.2
The things that happen for an initiation
- announces the type of challenge
- announces the opponent for it
- announces which characters are being declared as attackers and kneels them, any character with the stealth keyword that has been declared as an attacker also chooses its stealth targets at this time.
Timing Note: Once a challenge is initiated, reactions to any of the above announcements may be initiated. (Reactions are worded Reaction: unlike High Garden, not Action: )
High Garden: Challenges Action: Kneel High Garden and pay 1 gold and choose an attacking character. Stand that character and remove it from the challenge.
If I'm reading this right 4.2 happens first (including Stealth as it's specifically said it happens in 4.2 not in the action window after 4.2)
Something that wasn't a 4.2-Reaction or maybe an interrupt will only be able to take place after stealth has already finished, so High Garden wouldn't let the neutralized target become a defender.
Advanced Member
Stealth does indeed stick around even after the character with Stealth has been removed from the challenge, sadly.
Advanced Member
So one thing I'm wondering is how they are going to be able to continually print Tyrell characters long into the future. Obviously they can print as many non-uniques as they can conceive of--but part of the cool thing about a faction are the big, well-known unique characters from the books that will pop up.
Reviewing the characters on this page, hardly any of these are anybody you'd easily recall from the books, apart from Willas and Mace: http://awoiaf.wester...hp/House_Tyrell
This won't affect gameplay of course, but it will be interesting to see all these future Tyrell cards that you'll be scratching your head trying to recall what obscure paragraph they were mentioned in in the books.
Advanced Member
I'm hoping Renly Baratheon is one of the next high cost super-chars for House Tyrell. Any way other than name he belongs a Reach hero. The only time him leading an army comes up in the series, it's leading an army of Tyrell and Reach bannermen in opposition to Stannis Baratheon's army, and then being killed by Stannis.
It wouldn't make any sense for him to be on the same side as Stannis+Melisandre (his opposition+murderers) rather than the Tyrells who Renly is leader of almost the entirety of before his death, along with the Knight of Flowers (his lover) and Margaery Tyrell (his wife)
Advanced Member
I agree, Renly - and obviously Garlan, Willas and Mace. That accounts for the Tyrells proper - but you could name any of the 6 non-Loras Rainbow Guard (Parmen Crane, Brienne of Tarth, Bryce Caron, Guyard Morrigen, Robar Royce, Emmon Cuy), any of the Redwynes (we have Paxter, but Horas and Hobber), the Tarlys (we have Randyll, but the rest of his family is named). There's also Leyton Hightower. We have Margaery and her handmaidens (many of which are named, although I only remember Taena Merryweather), not to mention everyone's favourite fool, Butterbumps, or tortured scapegoat, The Blue Bard!
Finally, I could easily see there being a Tyrell version of Tommen Baratheon too.
And basically, I'm only naming characters I remember off the top of my head (granted, having played the first edition, and most recently a rainbow-guard knights deck certainly helps me remember otherwise obscure ones). I don't think there'll be a great shortage here.
Advanced Member
I built a Tyrell Banner of the Sun deck primarily because I love Highgarden and the Mander, and I've played 3 straight factions with horrible card draw (started with Stark, then Martell, then Targeryen for a day).
But I had a deck building problem that I hope you guys could answer.
I played against a Targ swarm deck, that ran 2 storm of swords, and he just decimated my army over and over again because, with Drogo, he was getting off 3 military challenges per turn.
The deck I built has plenty of intrigue, plenty of power, but its military presence is very lackluster.
Is there a good faction to banner in to counteract this problem?
Advanced Member
Stark is most obvious. Eddard maybe costs 7 but can stand each time so this swarm + 3MIL per round basically cease to be a problem. Plus you can take Bran for easy Dracarys Block (Uncancelable - unless it is not Targ+Lannister deck, but Plaza first thing it burns it is him). Arya Is great stealth which Tyrells desperately need (decond Plaza target). Add some Stewart and that cheap Knight and you are ready.
Advanced Member
Stark is most obvious. Eddard maybe costs 7 but can stand each time so this swarm + 3MIL per round basically cease to be a problem. Plus you can take Bran for easy Dracarys Block (Uncancelable - unless it is not Targ+Lannister deck, but Plaza first thing it burns it is him). Arya Is great stealth which Tyrells desperately need (decond Plaza target). Add some Stewart and that cheap Knight and you are ready.
That was my first choice. The only problem is the deck currently has a relatively high cost curve.
I think I can reduce it a little bit to fit Eddard in though.
Has anyone played a Tyrell Stark deck? And did it run okay?
Advanced Member
You can always keep Calm Over Westeros for later rounds. IT totally blocks Drogo's ability unless there is calm 2 plot. Game of Thrones also helps.
Sometimes it is not worth to loose faction character/identity only because you are afraid of some combo. Better to bend you playing style (Plot's) then your deck.
You see Drogo - try to be First Player and hit him with Tears, maybe Put to the Sword. If unsuccessful, then following round use GoT or CoW. Opponent cannot endlessly attack, even if, Wildfire him lowering his characters count. What will he hold on table?: Drogo, Deanerys and Drogon (best case scenario).
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
So is no one having success with house tyrell? I admittedly haven't played many games as I don't play OCTGN and have been rather busy in my personal life.
Advanced Member
So is no one having success with house tyrell? I admittedly haven't played many games as I don't play OCTGN and have been rather busy in my personal life.
I'm having lots of success using 12-14 of them as banner-men in other decks.
Margaery, Randyll, Heartsbane, Knight of Flowers. A dab of 1g reducer characters (improve setup and pay for stuff) and once in a while bear-and-maiden-fair to combo with things like Pillage.
Queen of Thorns is way less powerful than adding Euron Greyjoy, Balon Greyjoy, Asha Greyjoy and Theon Greyjoy to the 4 above. QoT ability is a joke if you already have played Randyll / KoF (or either of them is dead already) and she's more vulnerable to milks and kneels than the others. Tywin gets knelt, he still grants +2 gold. Euron gets milked, he still has 6 str mil, 6 str intrigue, 6 str pow.
The tyrell locations don't impress me. They're not horrible, they're just again not worth giving up the character advantage of banner-ing tyrell. "pay 1 gold and stand the enemy (so he can fight again this turn still) once per turn)" I find Highgarden to not come close to say Ghaston Grey which is a cannot-be-saved bounce to hand, discarding all dupes forever and making attachments go to hand to be repurchased, and costs the enemy that 6-7g for the main character again.
Or Areo Hotah's version of Highgarden, where you kneel to attack, then he appears from hand, you're not attacking, and you stay knelt and lose a whole turn of your strongest character. Highgarden never stops me from using euron (it can only bounce 1 of my 3 attacks while standing me And costing gold) whereas Areo or Ghaston Grey can.
The Mander isn't a bad draw location, but I find it no better than that Great Kraken I'm getting by running the not-bad Tyrell characters inside my greyjoy deck.
Left+Right would be a bonus if they weren't Uniques. If you run 6x of them then you risk lots of dead draws when they inevitably claim soak or eat wildfire assault. If you run 1x of each, they'll very rarely get their ability, and still normally be broken right up by wildfires as soon as you get 2 4g+ characters out. (If you kill a 4g+ character to keep a 3strength one, then opponent wins anyway so that's not an option. Particularly because 3str won't let you proc your card draw location like having 3 real big ones on board)
I think they definitely have some promise going forward into the future, it all depends on them getting lots of new expensive characters for QoT to bring in. If Randyll's already on board but then you get a new Renly Baratheon from some chapter pack (assuming 7g strength, 6g min) in hand, then QoT ability might become not so horribly situational. Each chapter pack, they should, hopefully, become less unimpressive.
Advanced Member
So is no one having success with house tyrell? I admittedly haven't played many games as I don't play OCTGN and have been rather busy in my personal life.
I'm having quite a bit of success with my Tyrell Martell deck. I have a little bit of weakness in military, but that can be mitigated with Palace Guardsmen and House Dayne Knights from Martell.
I'm still tweaking it, adding a few seals of the hand because of bara kneel and being able to attack and defend in the same round. And I needed to add some little birds because Randyll and KoF are so important to winning, but I see it having a lot of potential.
Because of Marg, Growing strong and Heartsbane, I can run a lot of 5 or more events, like put to the sword and superior claim. They really help to win the game.
Overall, I think it has a few weaknesses against heavy and aggressive military, like Targaryen. They are a very good house that does not excel in any specific realm, which I think is a nice balanced deck to build around.
Advanced Member
Regarding what might be in store for the future of House Tyrell, they could conceivably be the center of strong Maester decks, since Oldtown is in The Reach.
Advanced Member
Queen of Thorns is way less powerful than adding Euron Greyjoy, Balon Greyjoy, Asha Greyjoy and Theon Greyjoy to the 4 above. QoT ability is a joke if you already have played Randyll / KoF (or either of them is dead already) and she's more vulnerable to milks and kneels than the others. Tywin gets knelt, he still grants +2 gold. Euron gets milked, he still has 6 str mil, 6 str intrigue, 6 str pow.
The tyrell locations don't impress me. They're not horrible, they're just again not worth giving up the character advantage of banner-ing tyrell. "pay 1 gold and stand the enemy (so he can fight again this turn still) once per turn)" I find Highgarden to not come close to say Ghaston Grey which is a cannot-be-saved bounce to hand, discarding all dupes forever and making attachments go to hand to be repurchased, and costs the enemy that 6-7g for the main character again.
Or Areo Hotah's version of Highgarden, where you kneel to attack, then he appears from hand, you're not attacking, and you stay knelt and lose a whole turn of your strongest character. Highgarden never stops me from using euron (it can only bounce 1 of my 3 attacks while standing me And costing gold) whereas Areo or Ghaston Grey can.
The Mander isn't a bad draw location, but I find it no better than that Great Kraken I'm getting by running the not-bad Tyrell characters inside my greyjoy deck.
I agree that QoT is underwhelming in the core set. But I think she has the opportunity to really flourish as more characters are added. My Tyrell deck right now only has 28 characters in it, as it is so event and item heavy, to maximize the strength buff shenanigans. But, like you said, as more 5 or 6 gold characters are released, she'll become much more valuable.
As for the locations, its interesting that you say you aren't impressed by them. Because I am playing them almost exclusively for their locations, as well as Paxter. Otherwise, I would just banner them out, like everyone else. This game is dictated by card draw and economy. Paxter and QoT offer very high economy, as they provide free gold and cheaper events, as well as up to 6 free gold simply by winning an intrigue challenge. If you can proc QoT just once, she practically pays for herself. Pair her with an Olenna's Cunning, and you make your opponent have to choose between giving you a free Randyll or a Highgarden or Mander. That is some crazy economy.
And the Mander is the second best card draw card in the game, in my opinion. The Red Keep is obviously the gold standard right now (as are all the Bara cards right now), but the Mander offers 2 cards with a relatively easy to proc condition. Winning by 5 or more is really easy with a Margaery or Heartsbane in play. Even if the opponent fully commits, you can Highgarden your big hitter back and try again in a second challenge and proc it then. If all else fails, Growing Stronger gives you up to 6 free strength.
And yes, Ghaston Grey and Areo, if you have the 5 gold sitting or Arianne out, it is a better play. But those are both one off plays that you can't repeat. Highgarden you can do every single round. For just a single gold.
And Highgarden does stand them, but it allows you to choose what challenge they lose each round. Say you have a Paxter and Olenna and a little 2 or 3 strength military person standing when they are attacking. If they want to win a power challenge, they'll have to have at least 5 without their big hitter, meaning they are committing more bodies. If you want, you can let that go through and they are stuck over committing on one challenge. It gives you a ton of flexibility on defense and allows you to commit more of your characters to attacking and procing your Mander, PttS and Superior Claims, because they will not want to over commit on defense because they know they'll need more bodies when they're attacking.
And again, Olenna's Cunning will let you grab either Highgarden or the Mander, as they will very rarely want you to get another character on the board.
I love the loyal Tyrell set right now. And I'm excited to see what else will come out to further enhance their manipulation capabilities to really mind **** their opponents into making play mistakes.
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