837 replies to this topic

[drakk]

Joe's Secret: 3x Brandon's Gift

[JoeFromCincinnati]

Joe's Secret: 3x Brandon's Gift

 

They'll never see it coming >:-D

[GalacticTaco]

I'd like to see it too, but I can wait until after your Regional. Mine is around june and I'm thinking of bringing NW there since they have more and more critical cards to push them up in competitivity.

Curious to see how it fared, what were the matchups and what the faction meta was.

Good luck. For the Watch!

[starkjoy]

I was going to play Night's Watch at a regional in May, but work (retail) screwed me out of two possibilities. Yay.

Best of luck to y'all taking the black into the lists.

[JoeFromCincinnati]

I went 2-4 at the Indy Regionals, unfortunately.

 

Game 1 Greyjoy LotC

Game 1 was 100% fluke because I got the Wall out on turn 1, but my opponent was playing Greyjoy LotC and had Asha and the Wildling scout. I had 2 power icons out, but he sacrificed the wildling to give one of his guys stealth to get an unopposed challenge and WDNS the Wall.

Then the next turn, he played Euron and took the Wall. Since I can't play a second Wall when I "own" one on the field, the game was over pretty fast.

L 0-1

 

Game 2 Greyjoy Fealty? I forget the agenda.

This game went much better. He got Balon and Seastone chair out on turn 1, but I had a Ranging Party, which is not zero'd by an unmodified Balon. He also got Asha and I believe Theon out, but I got Benjen out and was able to defend all challenges thrown at me. He didn't see an intrigue icon for several turns, so Sam was able to get unopposed and card draw each turn for about 4 turns in a row. 

W 1-1

 

Game 3 Greyjoy Baratheon

This was a very close game. I got the Wall on set up and got some pretty good icon spread, but then the First Snow hit. I played Trading with the Pentoshi when he played First Snow on turn 3. I only had 3 small guys out at the time. I wanted to play Old Bear and Will, but he had Asha, who could have gotten an unopposed power challenge that would sacrifice Will and then do a military challenge to kill Old Bear. It would have been fine too, but he got 2 Old Bear Dupes from intrigue on turns 1 and. If I had one of those dupes, I get through the First Snow and probably trot to the win.

 

Even with that, I came back from 2-10 to get back to 12-12. I used Wildfire Assault to kill Benjen, putting me at 14. I had Old Bear with Longclaw and Littlebird, so if I won initiative, I would have done an intrigue challenge, won it and gained renown to win the game. But he played Clash of Kings, which, with an all out power challenge, gave him just enough strength to win (literally by 1 strength I think) to take two claim and renown on Balon to win 14-15.

L 1-2

 

Game 4 Lanni LotC

Another game where First Snow of Winter hit at just a super bad time. For the first few turns, I was unable to get the Wall off, even though I had it in play, because Syrio was passing stealth out like crazy. It popped 3 guys to my hand and Old Bear was the only character remaining. I was able to defend the Military challenge that should have killed Old Bear with a little ambush trickery from the Practice Blade (it felt great for a second), but then he played Marched to the Wall to get rid of the bear next turn. It was painful haha. He won pretty close. I don't remember the exact score, but I know it was within 3 or 4 power.

L 1-3

 

Game 5 Tyrell Fealty

I won this game easily. I love playing against Tyrell. I defended the Wall each round, and cruised to a victory pretty quickly.

W 2-3

 

Game 6 Lanni LotC

Patrick Haynes (Redviper on the forums) and I were both having really bad days. He was also 2-3 and we were matched up. On the one hand, it was cool because I got to talk to him a little bit and he's a cool guy, but the game was a pain. It was going great and to plan except for one small problem. The Wall never showed up. I didn't see it after my 4 card set up, On turn 2, it was not there for building orders. Then, on that second turn, I played The Watch has Need to get some rangers. Not only were there no rangers in the top 7 of the deck, but the top 2 on the deck were the freaking Wall :\. So I had to shuffle those away and then didn't see a copy of it for the rest of the game. Even with no Wall, I was still at 12 or 13 power by the end of the game. Just 1 turn with the Wall would have been a win, I believe. But at that point it didn't really matter haha. Oh well.

L 2-4

 

 

Things I learned:

Watcher on the Walls was difficult to execute. Even in games where I could have used it, it was better for my field position to just defend with the two rangers rather than kneel them and hoping they didn't have a cancel. It didn't often feel the risk. I think the threat of the card being in your hand is ultimately more effective than the card actually being in play. I may drop to 1x or 2x, depending on what I decide to do with the deck.

 

Old Bear is a rock star. I just love the **** out of that guy. Give him a Littlebird, sit him next to Syrio and enjoy your free Wall each round.

 

Will is not a rock star. I hated that he was in my hand on that 3rd game First Snow turn. If that were a Ranging Party or Benjen, I play that character and Old Bear, I don't have to worry about stupid unopposed challenges losing me a defender and then losing Old Bear to claim. That game ends a different way.  Will is okay as a piece of an army as a whole, but you just can't trust him in a limited board that the First Snow meta creates.

 

Benjen is a rock star...granted I didn't learn that today. I've loved that guy since the beginning of the game

 

Night's Watch desperately need a 4+ gold intrigue icon that doesn't suck at defending (Jon Snow) and who doesn't sacrifice himself if they sneak an unopposed through (Will).

 

I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate First Snow of Winter. Worst plot in the game. Releasing it in this meta is the equivalent of releasing a bull in a China Shop. Extraordinarily irresponsible.

 

I need more Syrios. I went with 1 Syrio and really wish I had a 2nd. It really hurt in that 4th game.

 

I'm wondering if NW Fealty is viable now that First Snow exists. I thought I did a lot to fix it, but obviously I didn't do enough. 3 of those losses I win if not for First Snow, so...yea.

 

Bummer.

[OKTarg]

Not to try to start an argument or anything, but given that you were very close to winning several of those games, couldn't we say that NW is very close to being competitive, even in the First Snow meta?

[JoeFromCincinnati]

Not to try to start an argument or anything, but given that you were very close to winning several of those games, couldn't we say that NW is very close to being competitive, even in the First Snow meta?

 

Possibly.

 

But 2-4 with close losses is still 2-4.

 

The fact that I was unable to close out those games means that they are missing something. 

 

And, this is not meant to be a hit on my opponents, but I was losing in the loser's pool for half the tournament.

 

Who knows how bad the deck does against the guys who went 5-0-1 at the top of the tournament.

 

I've been a fan of the Cincinnati Bengals for a long time, and they've been "close" to winning a playoff game for about 10 years now.

 

So maybe I'm just a pessimist?

[GalacticTaco]

I had my first game night kit since NMG. 
My initial 10 or so practice games went pretty great, I was able to adapt and recover to First Snow pretty well. I won most of my games, losing only 3. 
It all went sideways in the actual event haha
I got crushed a little bit by variance, but mostly First Snow and for two of my matches, a duped (or Risen from the sea) Balon and 2 Iron Fleet scouts. There's little NW can do to stop Balon when he has all of his support pieces right now. 

I have to agree with Joe that I hate first snow too. Having not played that much in 1st edition, playing in a First Snow environment takes some getting used to and some factions are really hurt by it while others benefit a lot from it. 

Now, I'm gonna rant a little here, but I think it just advantages certain factions too much; Baratheon, Lannister, Greyjoy, mainly Lannister though. You need to have enough characters that are 4+ cost, but too much and you expose yourself to control effects (kneel, icon stripping, bouncing), too little and you will get wrecked when that plot is played.
Second, NW doesn't have enough high impact characters at that cost slot compared to most other factions (except Stark maybe). Their good and reliable characters are 3 gold and less. This is terrible. Will is good in certain situations, but in the First Snow meta, he crumbles to stealth power challenges or icon stripping during a First snow turn. Every. Time. Barring lucky draw, NW's board becomes a house of cards on a First snow turn. Although I'm thinking of a way to help mitigate that, it will just make NW decks less reliable in what they draw, but hey: beggars can't be choosers I guess. 

I'll just be glad when it's not the flavor of the month anymore because right now, it just ensures that the top tier factions stay top tier because they keep getting good, impactful characters in that 4+ gold spot, and NW keep filling up their 3 gold slot. 


I did learn a few things. 

Post NMG, be wary of Naval Superiority. Still too many high econ plots that are traited Kingdom or Edict and NW often rely on a few of those. Some players will capitalize on that prior to or after a first snow turn, depending on your board state. Depends on your meta I guess, but I got hit a few times in practice and I found it in some choke decks (Lanni/Sun, Lani/Kraken) that capitalize on a First Snow turn to wipe your board or your hand. 

Balon is (still) a pain in the ass. Even with Benjen out, Iron Fleet scout means he is always guaranteed unopposed and smart players will keep him out of Military challenges unless he is duped or they have a way to save him from Watchers. Given Joe's experience with him, maybe I need to give Old Bear a chance now... He's the only one who stands a chance to stop Balon and is a boon with NW's economy. Little Bird helps him, The Raven coming in at the end of the cycle is better I think. 
In the meantime, other ways are needed to deal with problematic characters (Milk of the Poppy?). 

[Solaris]

I think Stark shares the same hatred for First Snow with NW. 

[Guardian1985]

Old Bear has been an mvp in many games even though he needs some baby sitting from Aemon to stop him from drinking any poisons...

 

We desperatly need a 4 cost intrigue character to survive the winter and the problem is from the spoilers so far i see no help coming our way.

FFG could have thrown us a bone in the stark deluxe box but we got Stonesnake instead.

 

At this point i am betting everything on Old Bears Raven. Having a tricon with stealth that defends standing could solve a lot of problems.

[JoeFromCincinnati]

Old Bear has been an mvp in many games even though he needs some baby sitting from Aemon to stop him from drinking any poisons...

 

We desperatly need a 4 cost intrigue character to survive the winter and the problem is from the spoilers so far i see no help coming our way.

FFG could have thrown us a bone in the stark deluxe box but we got Stonesnake instead.

 

At this point i am betting everything on Old Bears Raven. Having a tricon with stealth that defends standing could solve a lot of problems.

 

Yea, Old Bear is almost enough reason for me to run Here to Serve. And now, with First Snow of Winter out, using Here to Serve to get a dupe for Maester Aemon might actually not be a bad decision.

 

I really wish they just didn't give Will insight and then removed that absurd forced reaction from him. It is just so bad to work with in a meta that encourages small boards. 1 stealth power icon can send him to the discard pile.

 

Old Bear and his Raven is basically the only thing left for the Night's Watch if they hope to succeed in this meta. They need help pretty bad haha

 

I had my first game night kit since NMG. 
My initial 10 or so practice games went pretty great, I was able to adapt and recover to First Snow pretty well. I won most of my games, losing only 3. 
It all went sideways in the actual event haha
I got crushed a little bit by variance, but mostly First Snow and for two of my matches, a duped (or Risen from the sea) Balon and 2 Iron Fleet scouts. There's little NW can do to stop Balon when he has all of his support pieces right now. 

I have to agree with Joe that I hate first snow too. Having not played that much in 1st edition, playing in a First Snow environment takes some getting used to and some factions are really hurt by it while others benefit a lot from it. 

Now, I'm gonna rant a little here, but I think it just advantages certain factions too much; Baratheon, Lannister, Greyjoy, mainly Lannister though. You need to have enough characters that are 4+ cost, but too much and you expose yourself to control effects (kneel, icon stripping, bouncing), too little and you will get wrecked when that plot is played.
Second, NW doesn't have enough high impact characters at that cost slot compared to most other factions (except Stark maybe). Their good and reliable characters are 3 gold and less. This is terrible. Will is good in certain situations, but in the First Snow meta, he crumbles to stealth power challenges or icon stripping during a First snow turn. Every. Time. Barring lucky draw, NW's board becomes a house of cards on a First snow turn. Although I'm thinking of a way to help mitigate that, it will just make NW decks less reliable in what they draw, but hey: beggars can't be choosers I guess. 

I'll just be glad when it's not the flavor of the month anymore because right now, it just ensures that the top tier factions stay top tier because they keep getting good, impactful characters in that 4+ gold spot, and NW keep filling up their 3 gold slot. 


I did learn a few things. 

Post NMG, be wary of Naval Superiority. Still too many high econ plots that are traited Kingdom or Edict and NW often rely on a few of those. Some players will capitalize on that prior to or after a first snow turn, depending on your board state. Depends on your meta I guess, but I got hit a few times in practice and I found it in some choke decks (Lanni/Sun, Lani/Kraken) that capitalize on a First Snow turn to wipe your board or your hand. 

Balon is (still) a pain in the ass. Even with Benjen out, Iron Fleet scout means he is always guaranteed unopposed and smart players will keep him out of Military challenges unless he is duped or they have a way to save him from Watchers. Given Joe's experience with him, maybe I need to give Old Bear a chance now... He's the only one who stands a chance to stop Balon and is a boon with NW's economy. Little Bird helps him, The Raven coming in at the end of the cycle is better I think. 
In the meantime, other ways are needed to deal with problematic characters (Milk of the Poppy?). 

 

Yea, my practice went outstanding as well, but then at the event, I was a few power away from each win (Except the first one, but what am I gonna do about Euron stealing the Wall? haha)

 

First Snow of Winter definitely made the strong factions stronger. That kind of card design is not a great thing for a game where Lannister was already winning a lopsided amount of tournaments prior to the plot coming out.

 

Balon sucks, but Ranging Party + Wall + Castle Black is 8 strength, which Balon would need 2 scouts to overcome (when he is first player). Old Bear makes him need all 3, so he helps. Balon is just a ****** guy in general. I wish I could find space in my deck for Milk of the Poppy haha.

[Guardian1985]

Yea, Old Bear is almost enough reason for me to run Here to Serve. And now, with First Snow of Winter out, using Here to Serve to get a dupe for Maester Aemon might actually not be a bad decision.

 

Balon sucks, but Ranging Party + Wall + Castle Black is 8 strength, which Balon would need 2 scouts to overcome (when he is first player). Old Bear makes him need all 3, so he helps. Balon is just a ****** guy in general. I wish I could find space in my deck for Milk of the Poppy haha.

 

9 out of 10 times i open with Here to Serve and it is working pretty nice. Having an intrugue icon on demand to defend or save somenone from death or both with Castle Black is very strong i think. And with so many 3 or less cost characters the 3 gold it gives aren't very bad.

 

Also i nener leave home without 2-3 milks and i havent regretted it so far. There are so many good characters you will want to restrain.

[ChannelDelibird]

I've been playing a lot with Night's Watch/Lion (the Varys/Yoren/2xMarched variety) prior to No Middle Ground. Only just getting the chance to build with the new cards and curious to get thoughts - does First Snow spell doom for this archetype as well? Getting Yoren back for another activation is nice, losing the last character that he stole is not, and the deck wasn't previously in the habit of running many characters above 3 cost (Tyrion, Ranging Party, Ghost, Syrio and that's basically it). Do you think that it can be saved with a few beefier characters without losing the quickfire board advantage that was previously being created, or is it back to the drawing board?

 

I'd probably just be ditching it and trying something else but made a bet with my meta-mates not to build any new decks until the end of this month, instead just tweaking things I've already been running. Wondering if I might have to switch up to more of a traditional Wall-defence theme with beefier Lannister characters to better weather First Snow.

[GalacticTaco]

Balon sucks, but Ranging Party + Wall + Castle Black is 8 strength, which Balon would need 2 scouts to overcome (when he is first player). Old Bear makes him need all 3, so he helps. Balon is just a ****** guy in general. I wish I could find space in my deck for Milk of the Poppy haha.

You hit the nail on the head here. My opponents had Balon with two iron fleet scouts. Every. Time. Ranging party was steuggling to even keep up to stop him, and that's when Castle Black isn't being knelt by the shipwright.

Starting to think a few copies of Halder and Milk might be worthwhile to get a few more +1 if only to help prevent Balon from rolling over NW, or to stop PTTS. NW runs Building Orders anyway, might get more use out of it. Sucks that Halder doesn't cost 4 gold instead of 3.

And that's the main problem; most of their critical characters are 3 gold or less. Here to Serve could be good..but which spot is it taking in a plot deck?

[TravisSnow]

Shadow Tower is strong. Don't tell the other factions but we're getting better.

[starkjoy]

Just wait til we get The Wall out for 3 or less gold and other locations on the cheap with the builders coming last pack.

[GalacticTaco]

How do you use the Shadow Tower? Didn't have time to play this week, but it seems to me like opponents will just make sure they win every challenge they throw at NW, either by overcommitting, or using shenaniganery (Stark challenge jumpers, for example)

[JoeFromCincinnati]

How do you use the Shadow Tower? Didn't have time to play this week, but it seems to me like opponents will just make sure they win every challenge they throw at NW, either by overcommitting, or using shenaniganery (Stark challenge jumpers, for example)

 

There are two ways the card works:

1. It changes the way your opponent makes challenges. When facing NW, a lot of factions will do all 3 challenges even when they can't win all three. Doing a military with a chud just to make you kneel your rangers so that they can get a big power challenge through. Or doing an intrigue challenge and forcing you to kneel Maester Aemon rather than saving a character for the military challenge. This card will make them no longer do those small challenges just to kneel defenders, which will then leave you more standing characters to retaliate. This is especially prevalent against LotC decks that need to do a weak challenge just to get t their third challenge. I've had multiple times where I win that first challenge just with Old Bear. By having Shadow Tower out, they can no longer do that weak challenge and they'll actually have to put effort towards winning all 3 challenges, which may not be possible with LotC.

 

This also works great with For the Watch! since they will want to do a useless challenge to waste, but they know if they do, then you can win it and turn off the character they need to win an important challenge.

 

2. It will make them unable to even make any challenges. I had one game against Greyjoy LotC. In order to win a power challenge over my Old Bear, Benjen and Ranging Party with the Wall and Shadow Tower out, Normally, he would have been able to do a military with Asha, stealthing Old Bear, and force me to kneel one of the rangers, then do a power challenge with the other two or something like that. But because a loss o his first challenge would have meant I could deactivate one of the other two, he couldn.t He would have had to commit Euron, Balon and Asha. Euron and Balon had no stealth to get around Old Bear. Euron and Asha wasn't enough to get over RP and Benj. And Balon and Asha wouldn't have been enough either. 

 

He didn't want to kneel his entire army for one challenge, because then I would be able to come back for 3 challenges unopposed, so he had to pass. That allowed me to do one big power challenge, which I won, and then, since I didn't lose a challenge on defense, I triggered Old Bear's ability to play a second Ranging Party from my hand, which, with the Iron Throne, won me dominance even though he had Euron and Balon standing still. 

 

The next turn, he played the Reader and one of those scouts that sacrifice for stealth. So he had the Reader, Balon, Euron and Asha and the scout. I played For the Watch, a littlebird on Old Bear and Aemon to go along with my two Ranging Parties, Benjen, Wall and Shadow Tower. A second straight turn of paralyzing his army. He decided to sacrifice his scout to give Euron stealth for the sole purpose of stealthing Old Bear so that I couldn't win the intrigue challenge on defense.

 

It does a lot

[OKTarg]

Do you run three wall three castle black two shadow tower or some other configuration?

[JoeFromCincinnati]

Do you run three wall three castle black two shadow tower or some other configuration?

 

I do 2 Castles, 3 Walls and 2 Shadow Towers.

 

I wish I could run 3 Castles, but I just don' have the space. Maybe if I cut out the Watchers.

 

But that would really bum me out.