250 replies to this topic

[PatrickHaynes]

Yeah I think with fealty and 3 economy plots, 12 limited seems like too many. I'd be worried about top-decking into them too often or having too many in hand. I think that coming from a magic background can lead to a desire to have a lot of limited cards, enough that you are very likely to draw one every turn. While this is in some ways a good practice, it can be easy to be too resource heavy and not be able to play enough things with those resources due to a lack of cards rather than a lack of gold. The plot system can offset a potential deficit in economy to the point where more than 9 limiteds is probably unnecessary, especially in a deck that runs so many income plots. For Lanni fealty I would cut either two fiefdoms and one moneylender or two moneylenders and one fiefdom, whichever fits better for your deck. It also means you could get away with dropping taxation for a more impactful plot. Alternatively you could drop at least one of your money plots and keep the economy more in deck. I'd try to play around with it and see how many turns your sitting there with 10 gold and nothing to play thinking "Well now Tywin will absolutely destroy anyone slightly more than usual but where is my claim soak/other characters to back him up?".

[Zeetro]

Maybe cut 3 of the neutral limited cards and taxation and add Calm Over Westeros (or Game of Thrones) and 3 PttS?
Or Cut 3 Moneylenders to add more faction cards?

I'm not sure on PttS. It is great but only Tywin with a lot of money can trigger it reliably. Ser Jaime could if unopposed or aided but it isn't reliable. That's why I went Milk/Tears in my list.

[Alexfrog]

Maybe cut 3 of the neutral limited cards and taxation and add Calm Over Westeros (or Game of Thrones) and 3 PttS?
Or Cut 3 Moneylenders to add more faction cards?

I'm not sure on PttS. It is great but only Tywin with a lot of money can trigger it reliably. Ser Jaime could if unopposed or aided but it isn't reliable. That's why I went Milk/Tears in my list.

 

 

Moneylender is max 1 in deck for me.  His being limited causes problems pretty regularly actually.

Those setups where you need to play him as a 2 coster and as a result you cannot play an economy location, whereas if he was any other random 2 cost guy, you could also play your limited locaiton, are a big deal.

[Zeetro]

Moneylender is max 1 in deck for me. His being limited causes problems pretty regularly actually.
Those setups where you need to play him as a 2 coster and as a result you cannot play an economy location, whereas if he was any other random 2 cost guy, you could also play your limited locaiton, are a big deal.

Ok. If I removed 2 Moneylenders, then Taxation goes. And maybe one Calling the Banners if it's true I'm over doing economy. What could I add back? Game of Thrones and Calm over Westeros might be two plot options. But beyond adding a 3rd Assassin (which I'm not sure, 2 seems fine), I'm not sure what to add in place of the Moneylenders.

[PatrickHaynes]

I honestly prefer NA to fealty for Lanni partially because the moneylender is limited, running 45 cards out of Lanni is tough if you don't want to run one of the two cost non-uniques because they are limited. Also Lanni has such bad events (treachery excluded obviously). Hear me roar is terrible, and Things I do for Love clashes with fealty. So if I'm being honest I think you'd be better off switching to NA or to a banner. If you're committed to using the Fealty, I would actually cut one calling the banners (possibly both?) and stick with a large number of limited and keep Taxation. I would add Game of Thrones and if you end up cutting the second CtB add Calm Over Westeros. I think I would then cut one moneylender for a third queens assassin. Not for the ambush, mostly just so you could have another non-limited chud.

[jstrong77]

Hear Me Roar just got a little better with the spoiled The Hound card!

[PulseGlazer]

Hear Me Roar just got a little better with the spoiled The Hound card!

? why?

[PatrickHaynes]

? why?

My guess is that he plans to use Hear me Roar on the hound, win a challenge using the hound, and then have the hound bounce back to his hand before he would be discarded for Hear me Roar

[fozzyfosbourne]

This is probably not practical, but I've been wondering if the Lanni-NA build could cram Stark in there for Ned for more stand effects against Bara. Maybe also grabbing Arya, Bran, possibly Sansa. Cuts might include Jaime to accommodate Ned. Since the deck doesn't run the location reducers, it's not pulling it's econ in as many directions as another deck might be for adding a banner.

[PulseGlazer]

This is probably not practical, but I've been wondering if the Lanni-NA build could cram Stark in there for Ned for more stand effects against Bara. Maybe also grabbing Arya, Bran, possibly Sansa. Cuts might include Jaime to accommodate Ned. Since the deck doesn't run the location reducers, it's not pulling it's econ in as many directions as another deck might be for adding a banner.

 

Give it a build.  The deck is already jam packed.

[Alexfrog]

I dont think Stark is a good banner, but I think Lanni NA should test out bannering Baratheon, Greyjoy, and Tyrell.

[fozzyfosbourne]

Give it a build.  The deck is already jam packed.

This is a first swag at it:

http://thronesdb.com/deck/view/8576

 

I'm at 61 but need to cut another card

 

Cuts were:

Jaime

Queen's Assassins

Joffrey

1x Pycelle

Wildling Horde

Rattleshirt's Raiders

Things I Do For Love

 

2 6 costers

1 5 coster

2 4 costers

2 3 costers

3 2 costers

 

1 event (non-setup playable)

 

Added

 

Ned x2

Arya x3

Bran x3

Sansa x1

Stewards x3

 

2 7 costers

4 3 costers

3 2 costers

3 1 costers

 

Not sure about those numbers, could throw in a Tumblestone Knight here and there. The reducers aren't going to do a lot of work. And really, if I'm importing Stark just for Ned and Arya I should probably have 3 Ned.

 

edit: basically, if I could just take the NA build and swap out Jaime for Ned, that would be ideal, I think. You lose a tears haver but you gain a repeatable stand effect. With the two noble causes and CtB it seems likely you will be able to marshall Ned over Jaime, and especially if you get Tywin on the board. It's the rest of the stuff that I'm not sure about.

 

edit 2: It also is a bummer that Bran doesn't cancel the R'hllorness of a Seen in Flames. #baragrumblegrumble

 

Edit 3: The Editing: You pretty much need all the 1 costers in the deck if you have this many 7 cost characters, otherwise you end up with too many unplayable setups. Goldfishing hands though, there are so many cards you can't or don't really want to play on setup

[sparrowhawk]

It's time to resurrect and modernise my build from this old thread exploring this archetype.
http://www.cardgamed...-plot/?p=200436

I shelved Varys because my regular opponent played Fealty with lots of dupes and Bodyguards (and because it is still a draw reset, vulnerable to draw variance as you need to find him and Summons can't pay for him - and in my first game ever, Heads on Spikes plot 1 killed Varys!). And also because others at the time (early August) reported Varys was disappointing so I was cowed by groupthink (baaaa). But now I feel more confident playing him again and more importantly I feel I’ve learnt more subtleties playing him (like attacking with him and removing that dupe with a Tears first or Treachery on their Bodyguard).


“LOSE EVERY BATTLE YET WIN THE WAR”
(Lannister Control – experimental, still being fine-tuned)
Total Cards: (60)
Faction: Lannister

Agenda: (1)
1x Banner of the Rose (Core Set)

Plot: (7)
1x A Game of Thrones (Core Set)
2x Calling the Banners (Core Set)
1x Calm Over Westeros (Core Set)
1x Confiscation (Core Set)
1x The Winds of Winter (Core Set)
1x Wildfire Assault (Core Set)

Character: (32)
1x Cersei Lannister (Core Set)
3x Courtesan of the Rose (Core Set)
3x Garden Caretaker (Core Set)
1x Grand Maester Pycelle (Core Set)
3x Lannisport Merchant (Core Set)
3x Lannisport Moneylender (Core Set)
1x Littlefinger (Core Set)
1x Margaery Tyrell (Core Set)
3x Olenna’s Informant (Core Set)
3x Ser Jaime Lannister (Core Set)
1x The Tickler (Core Set)
3x Tyrion Lannister (Core Set)
3x Tywin Lannister (Core Set)
3x Varys (Core Set)

Attachment: (7)
3x Bodyguard (Core Set)
3x Milk of the Poppy (Core Set)
1x Widow’s Wail (Core Set)

Event: (11)
3x Tears of Lys (Core Set)
3x The Hand’s Judgment (Core Set)
3x Treachery (Core Set)
2x “The Bear and the Maiden Fair” (Core Set)

Location: (10)
1x Casterly Rock (Core Set)
3x Lannisport (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)


Disclaimer: my apologies to forum regulars who may find most (all?) of the detail below quite obvious.

So this build is all about card advantage. It does this by leveraging the inherent card advantage of multiple intrigue attacks (Informants, Casterly Rock) that combines with its draw (Lannisport, Pycelle) and 2 claim (Winds of Winter, Cersei). On the understanding that kill cards are 1-for-1, it should win in the attrition war of relative card advantage. If I can intrigue more than you can kill (which I can with extra attacks and 26 intrigue icons) and my draw engine is better, I should win. A build can’t cover all bases so this build is supreme in intrigue (so you safely long-term plan), strong in power and very weak in military until the reset – because resets (and Stannis) can make military the least important challenge.

There are 2 valves in the game:
Level 1 – the rate that cards enter your hand from your deck (base 2 per turn + other card draw)
Level 2 – the rate that cards enter the table from your hand (paid with gold, cap of cards in hand)

To counter this, there are 4 counter pressures currently in the game
· intrigue claim randomly removes cards that reached level 1 but not level 2, disrupting plans
· reserve (default 6) caps cards at level 1 at the end of each turn with least useful discarded
· military claim permanently removes cards that have reached level 2 with least useful killed
· wildfire assault (c.1 per player) caps each player’s level 2 cards to 3 with least useful killed
In addition, killing a unique may result in dead draw dupes that serve only as intrigue claim soak.

So, barring mechanics like Reserve (that forces promoting cards from level 1 to level 2) and Wildfire Assault or Varys (that radically culls level 2), card advantage occurs when “Own Cumulative (Card Draw + Military Claim + Intrigue Claim) > Opponent’s Cumulative (Card Draw + Military Claim + Intrigue Claim)”.

Lannister Rose is ideally placed to leverage this with a draw engine that is multiplicative with multiple intrigue attacks. You can end a turn with 3 characters on the table to the opponent’s 6 with 6 cards in hand to the opponent’s 3 but when you Wildfire Assault, you suddenly gained a +3 card advantage. Add Varys and the card advantage benefits can become quite one-sided.

Now the interaction of Varys and Wildfire is also important. Varys punishes non-dupes (that add to board presence) and Wildfire punishes too many duped uniques (that add to your board depth). This is a key part of the strategy as your build is designed to be resilient to both (centred on Lannister trio of top characters at x3 and 3 Bodyguards to protect them whilst waiting for a dupe). The other balancing act is between having claim soak that does things (economy, Informants) and your high impact characters (the Lannister top 3). The remainder of the deck is stall.

You leverage card advantage with a build that has a low cost-curve for set-ups (free cards and gold) but a balance must be made (e.g. a 3 card set-up of Tywin, a reducer and Roseroad is very strong despite card disadvantage of playing more cards at set-up but is dependent on match-up and how you can protect Tywin, e.g. with Bodyguard still in hand). There are 2 choke points in the game, card choke and gold choke. And opening the valve of the latter at the slight cost of the former is often a good trade-off.

The next worry is to stall the aggro Stark and Greyjoy decks, to pressure intrigue and provoke an over-commit to the table (fearing card loss to intrigue). Here we use the plot that launched the original eponymous thread, A Game of Thrones, as well as that melee plot Calm over Westeros (it is in-built card advantage of 1 not lost to military). I generally open Calm over Westeros (as they predict A Game of Thrones with your agenda) and save A Game of Thrones until later. This gives you the stall necessary to resist the initial aggro onslaught, to stabilise with a “pillow fort” of cheap claim soak during which you ravage their hand then reset for the win. Save Tears for Raiders (that can cause havoc) and dupes (Milks also go on duped characters). The deck has been slightly weakened against Greyjoy by having 3 Judgements instead of 3 Gold Cloaks (which will prevent unopposed once) as this makes it stronger against Targ, the stronger deck in the meta, but you have Tears and Milk against their key characters. The reality is there is no point in having a few military icons which will be stealthed and Put to the Sword or We Do Not Sow (free with Fealty) will always be trivial to trigger against you. Instead, draw the poison and cancel that telegraphed event that you deem harmful. Save a Milk for Catelyn (you can still use Tears on a bonus intrigue attack) and Treachery that Ice. The main thing against aggro decks is not to marshal one of your key 3 duped characters unprotected; instead be patient – your hand is safe. By allocating 2 plots to blunting the assault of aggro, you have sufficient stall to win against them.

Your game against Targ is trickier as they have more intrigue presence. Saving a Milk for Dany is crucial (sole card draw, punishes your weenies), even if it doesn’t stop her gained text. Their virtual card advantage of Claim Raise (Khal, Plaza) is less of an issue against a board reset deck and Treachery has many uses against them (stop Plaza killing Pycelle, Viserys removing a Milk, Illyrio’s stand). Harass in intrigue with non-essential characters (or give Widow’s Wail to Tyrion or Cersei) to ferret out a Dracarys (or just cancel it). Trigger Varys quicker against Targ to prevent dupes piling up. Expect Put to the Sword from some builds (their Tears are ineffectual and you rarely lose intrigue). Targ relies on its events so having strong intrigue and cancels is the best answer. Your better card draw should prevail as their military virtual card advantage is equalised by resets.

Your game against Bara Fealty is challenging but beatable. Keeping the Red Keep from drawing to counter intrigue is the main problem but you have 22 power icons and Treachery can help as a virtual 2 for 1. Use your Milk to disrupt their game and Tears for Robert/Stannis dupes (during reset turn). Cancel their events, especially Seen in Flames, as you know their deck inside out. Bara rarely cares about military due to their Stannis lock and you will win intrigue (be wary of Fury) so the game rests on you constantly breaching the Red Keep until you reset (Treachery their Bodyguards). The Red Keep engine needs character support so once you reset, they should stay down.

So this build focuses on the multiplicative benefits from Lannisport, Tyrion & Winds of Winter with extra attacks of Informants & Casterly Rock. So far so basic. The main innovation that this deck has over prior attempts is The Bear and the Maiden Fair. This instant-speed variant of Magic cards Index and Brainstorm is perfect for this build and it was Barnie discussing draw quality in the Tyrell thread that was inspiration (thank you). Yes, it’s card disadvantage but often you find yourself exceeding Reserve by 1. It allows you to find Varys quicker but it’s best used on an opponent before reset to prevent any hope of comeback (Tickler interaction is icing, further supporting the fact the card was designed for this alliance). You can even trigger it to hopefully find a Tears to draw via Lannisport and play in that challenge. It smoothes draw variance such as desperately needing economy. Before challenges against Bara, you can find and place Varys second in your deck so if you draw via Lannisport, the opponent can’t remove Varys or Bear with Seen in Flames).

Note all your characters of cost 2+ have intrigue icons thus no good targets for opponent's Tears of Lys (and you dominate intrigue to make multiple attacks or safe behind A Game of Thrones barring a sneaky Little Bird on Balon). You also have cancels of both events (very telegraphed if opponent goes first, fuelled by Tyrion if you go first) and effects - you are playing a reactive game, like Blue Black Control in Magic. 2x Calling the Banners go second is for Varys (now passe) but allows Treachery on Kingsroad and Hand’s Judgement on Consolidation of Power if desired. Use the transferable tempo of Kingsroads: try to save them until after you reset for sudden board control.

The real advantage of intrigue builds is that you can plan for future turns. If your hand is safe, you can save cards for later (you play to respect your Reserve, a balancing mechanic in this edition) like that Milk for that key threat you have yet to see. Intrigue builds are much weaker in Core Set 2.0 but for those who love dicing with danger, who love “counter-attack” decks that comeback from losing to win, this sort of deck is highly recommended. It’s what elevates Thrones from many other card games where “play as many threats as you can” is the order of the day. Here, it’s all about timing (and it teaches eager aggro players the value of restraint).

Note that against Aggro (so not Bara Fealty), you actually want to keep a good opposing character in play after Varys - a character that is better than your worst surviving character. Else aggro builds March to the Wall a survivor if they have none. This was the issue I had when I first experimented with Varys and ended up mutating the deck to this Wildfire only spot-control version on page 2 of this thread.
http://www.cardgamed...hread/?p=212794
I'm now revisiting it, perhaps too purist (because I'm giving alot of unopposed power to win back), to test if this Tyrell song is the missing component.

I’m not saying the above build is anywhere near perfect. It’s simply my latest iteration of a build that has had mixed success against strong decks. But I firmly believe Lannister Rose Control is potentially up there as a top tier deck (albeit a very high skill deck to pilot). Any suggestions on how to improve it would be very much appreciated.

Just like I predicted Lannister Rose will win Kingslayer (oops) and I've been pushing this agenda at any opportunity, I'm going to back Lannister Rose at Worlds. One day soon, Reset Control (not Lockdown) will be victorious in this samey world of Aggro...

[sparrowhawk]

Sadly the above game theory did not work in practice and I’ve come to the conclusion that the card pool doesn’t support intrigue builds yet. Which is disappointing, that the competitive decks are just variants of Aggro plus a dominant Lockdown Control deck - short-selling this great game. No Reset Control, no Rush, no Choke Denial, no Combo (Tyrell Cunning hints at it, eg. reuniting Left and Right etc). I guess I had unfair hopes of the Core Pool satisfying the many archetypes that existed in the 1.0 game. It's done a good job of satisfying Casual, Joust and Melee so these gaps are only to be expected.

The above idea failed miserably against Greyjoy because resets help unopposed and it even gives unopposed military (the plan is to claw it back post reset) for Kraken draw which goes counter to the whole game theory concept of Relative Card Advantage using MIL/INT claims and card draw. There is also the problem that aggro decks will March to the Wall your survivor when you Varys, a key flaw in the timing of Varys. The final problem is that so much targeted removal is linked to MIL (why?) and if you don't have a Tears for Raiders, your attachments become card disadvantage.

It beat Bara Fealty (or rather Varys did) but seeing the incurable fatal flaws against Greyjoy, the idea is sadly temporarily shelved.

Varys > Bara > Greyjoy > Varys.

However, I did learn a few things. If you have 2 aggro-stall plots (Game of Thrones and Calm Over Westeros), you have already stabilised sufficiently that you don’t need the good set ups and claim soak of 6x reducers that don't help with ambush, neutrals or off-faction, you can opt for more impactful characters as long as plots can cover for income. I also learnt that in a build where you mainly only make surgical military attacks to trigger targeted removal like Put events or Raiders, Calling the Banners will be amazing economy (with the added benefit of Treachery on their Kingsroad and provoking a cautious marshal suspecting Varys).

So taking these learnings on board, I’ve gone back to modifying the Tempo Lannister Rose build I posted on page 2 of this thread.

LANNISTER ROSE TEMPO 30.10.15
Total Cards: (60)
Faction: Lannister

Agenda: (1)
1x Banner of the Rose (Core Set)

Plot: (7)
1x A Game of Thrones (Core Set)
2x Calling the Banners (Core Set)
1x Calm Over Westeros (Core Set)
1x Confiscation (Core Set)
1x The Winds of Winter (Core Set)
1x Wildfire Assault (Core Set)

Character: (37)
3x Burned Men (Core Set)
1x Cersei Lannister (Core Set)
3x Courtesan of the Rose (Core Set)
3x Gold Cloaks (Core Set)
1x Grand Maester Pycelle (Core Set)
3x Lannisport Moneylender (Core Set)
1x Left (Core Set)
1x Littlefinger (Core Set)
3x Margaery Tyrell (Core Set)
3x Olenna’s Informant (Core Set)
2x Rattleshirt’s Raiders (Core Set)
1x Right (Core Set)
3x Ser Jaime Lannister (Core Set)
1x The Knight of Flowers (Core Set)
1x The Tickler (Core Set)
3x Tyrion Lannister (Core Set)
3x Tywin Lannister (Core Set)
1x Wildling Horde (Core Set)

Attachment: (1)
1x Widow’s Wail (Core Set)

Event: (12)
3x Put to the Sword (Core Set)
3x Put to the Torch (Core Set)
3x Tears of Lys (Core Set)
3x Treachery (Core Set)

Location: (10)
1x Casterly Rock (Core Set)
3x Lannisport (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)

So it's the same Plot line as prior but now a deck full of impactful characters and targeted removal events. Left and Right make me cringe but you need them for set ups (12 cost 2) and a low cost military icon is needed, especially as Margaery can raise them to key STR 5. In the testing of the prior iteration of this Tempo build, Margaery allowing you to never overcommit to trigger a Put event is incredibly useful, especially with 6 ambush military characters.

The above looks a far more sensible reversion and I'm planning to test it this weekend. I'm still determined to make Lannister Rose competitive tier 1. I feel there is a strong build here, I just need to find it...

[fozzyfosbourne]

Interesting stuff, Sparrowhawk.

On an unrelated note: it might be win-more, and it's definitely Timmy as hell, but it would be hilarious to use Robert's Warhammer with Tywin. Save some money for ambush and events, make a couple bucks with Tyrion, and then smash the hammer into the ground like Thor kneeling a bunch of their board. Maybe combo it with high claim for the ultimate Timmy turn.

[Zeetro]

Sadly the above game theory did not work in practice and I’ve come to the conclusion that the card pool doesn’t support intrigue builds yet. Which is disappointing, that the competitive decks are just variants of Aggro plus a dominant Lockdown Control deck - short-selling this great game. No Reset Control, no Rush, no Choke Denial, no Combo (Tyrell Cunning hints at it, eg. reuniting Left and Right etc). I guess I had unfair hopes of the Core Pool satisfying the many archetypes that existed in the 1.0 game. It's done a good job of satisfying Casual, Joust and Melee so these gaps are only to be expected.
The above idea failed miserably against Greyjoy because resets help unopposed and it even gives unopposed military (the plan is to claw it back post reset) for Kraken draw which goes counter to the whole game theory concept of Relative Card Advantage using MIL/INT claims and card draw. There is also the problem that aggro decks will March to the Wall your survivor when you Varys, a key flaw in the timing of Varys. The final problem is that so much targeted removal is linked to MIL (why?) and if you don't have a Tears for Raiders, your attachments become card disadvantage.
It beat Bara Fealty (or rather Varys did) but seeing the incurable fatal flaws against Greyjoy, the idea is sadly temporarily shelved.
Varys > Bara > Greyjoy > Varys.
However, I did learn a few things. If you have 2 aggro-stall plots (Game of Thrones and Calm Over Westeros), you have already stabilised sufficiently that you don’t need the good set ups and claim soak of 6x reducers that don't help with ambush, neutrals or off-faction, you can opt for more impactful characters as long as plots can cover for income. I also learnt that in a build where you mainly only make surgical military attacks to trigger targeted removal like Put events or Raiders, Calling the Banners will be amazing economy (with the added benefit of Treachery on their Kingsroad and provoking a cautious marshal suspecting Varys).
So taking these learnings on board, I’ve gone back to modifying the Tempo Lannister Rose build I posted on page 2 of this thread.
LANNISTER ROSE TEMPO 30.10.15
Total Cards: (60)
Faction: Lannister
Agenda: (1)
1x Banner of the Rose (Core Set)
Plot: (7)
1x A Game of Thrones (Core Set)
2x Calling the Banners (Core Set)
1x Calm Over Westeros (Core Set)
1x Confiscation (Core Set)
1x The Winds of Winter (Core Set)
1x Wildfire Assault (Core Set)
Character: (37)
3x Burned Men (Core Set)
1x Cersei Lannister (Core Set)
3x Courtesan of the Rose (Core Set)
3x Gold Cloaks (Core Set)
1x Grand Maester Pycelle (Core Set)
3x Lannisport Moneylender (Core Set)
1x Left (Core Set)
1x Littlefinger (Core Set)
3x Margaery Tyrell (Core Set)
3x Olenna’s Informant (Core Set)
2x Rattleshirt’s Raiders (Core Set)
1x Right (Core Set)
3x Ser Jaime Lannister (Core Set)
1x The Knight of Flowers (Core Set)
1x The Tickler (Core Set)
3x Tyrion Lannister (Core Set)
3x Tywin Lannister (Core Set)
1x Wildling Horde (Core Set)
Attachment: (1)
1x Widow’s Wail (Core Set)
Event: (12)
3x Put to the Sword (Core Set)
3x Put to the Torch (Core Set)
3x Tears of Lys (Core Set)
3x Treachery (Core Set)
Location: (10)
1x Casterly Rock (Core Set)
3x Lannisport (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)
So it's the same Plot line as prior but now a deck full of impactful characters and targeted removal events. Left and Right make me cringe but you need them for set ups (12 cost 2) and a low cost military icon is needed, especially as Margaery can raise them to key STR 5. In the testing of the prior iteration of this Tempo build, Margaery allowing you to never overcommit to trigger a Put event is incredibly useful, especially with 6 ambush military characters.
The above looks a far more sensible reversion and I'm planning to test it this weekend. I'm still determined to make Lannister Rose competitive tier 1. I feel there is a strong build here, I just need to find it...

What would you do to this considering the spoiled cards?

[Zeetro]

http://thronesdb.com...-or-you-die-1.0

My Lannister Fealty with the new cards.

[jstrong77]

Zeetro, good build, although I think for Lannister Fealty to be strong it needs to run Varys. I have him 2x in my build. I'm also wondering whether 1x Casterly Rock and 1x Cersei's Wheelhouse is enough.

2x The Hound feels right to me as well.

[Zeetro]

Zeetro, good build, although I think for Lannister Fealty to be strong it needs to run Varys. I have him 2x in my build. I'm also wondering whether 1x Casterly Rock and 1x Cersei's Wheelhouse is enough.

2x The Hound feels right to me as well.

Well to fit him I'd need to cut two neutrals. Littlefinger? Milk? It's difficult to fit him. :/

[jstrong77]

Don't use roseroad and use western fiefdoms instead. -1 Littlefinger and you've got room for Varys.