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Organizing thread - CoC Legacy and Support

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#1
Danigral

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So far we have seen a lot of discussion about licensing and creative ideas about community support, but I think that there are still things that we can express to FFG about how we can make this Worlds the best albeit the last, and communicate what we expect to see in terms of leaving the game in a great place. As a community we can say it loud and clear by being consistent and communicating directly with FFG customer service.

This thread is to organize around what we want to see done for the legacy of this game and present them in a unified way en masse to FFG Customer Service.

For myself, I would like to see the following:
1. The draft story set made legal for worlds. And unprecedented prize support in the form of backstock and CCG boxes and tourney kits and leftover OP prizes.
2. A custom story deck made by POD for each entrant, and available for purchase via POD, along with classic reprints of out of print CCG cards.
3. Regular injections of POD packs that alter the game state, such as official "conspiracy play" decks with reprints of classic conspirators and one or two "promo" cards, such as reprints of old CCG cards. We have seen similar support for AGoT the board game and Mansions of Madness, for example.
4. Official rules for multiplayer format.
5. Official rules for story drafting (combining multiple story and/or conspiracy decks.)

Let's create a list and then we'll create a form letter for each person to email in to customer service and organized play, where appropriate.
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#2
Unnamable

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I suppose it couldn't hurt to pass a list of fan requests to FFG. The lack of engagement that FFG has practiced with the WARHAMMER INVASION community since it's demise does not raise one's hopes though.  :unsure: My pessimism is not meant to burst balloons or rain on parades but is an attempt to mostly interject some historical reference. Largely I feel that we are on our own here and should be prepared to take the initiative.

 

1. The draft story set made legal for worlds. And unprecedented prize support in the form of backstock and CCG boxes and tourney kits and leftover OP prizes.

 

I have played with the draft story set and I prefer the current story deck over it.

 

FFG will likely make the final Worlds especially sweet with lots of support but it certainly doesn't hurt to let them know we expect it to be so. I would suggest that the participants at Worlds 2015 create and bring their own prize support contributions?

 

2. A custom story deck made by POD for each entrant, and available for purchase via POD, along with classic reprints of out of print CCG cards.

 

Good luck in getting FFG to commit any resources to such a effort. I feel this is 'pie in the sky'.

 

3. Regular injections of POD packs that alter the game state, such as official "conspiracy play" decks with reprints of classic conspirators and one or two "promo" cards, such as reprints of old CCG cards. We have seen similar support for AGoT the board game and Mansions of Madness, for example.

 

Good luck in getting FFG to commit any resources to such a effort. I feel this is 'pie in the sky'.

 

4. Official rules for multiplayer format.

 

This would be nice but FFG is likely to just let this lie as it is. Perhaps creating a Pinned topic with this info on these forums?

 

5. Official rules for story drafting (combining multiple story and/or conspiracy decks.)

 

This would be nice but FFG is likely to just let this lie as it is. Perhaps creating a Pinned topic with this info on these forums?



#3
tdnordine

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I agree with all of Unmaneable's points here I am afraid.  2-5 require FFG effort, and they have already stated that they are done making the game.  

 

What we can expect (and let FFG know that we expect) IMO are:

 

1) a final FAQ before Worlds.

2) A sweet farewell to the game at Worlds with an emptying of their shelves of any remaining prize support for the game...and this might be a pipe dream as well. because I don't think anyone here on this thread knows if there are such shelves laden with stuff...

 

But, it doesn't hurt to let them know, loudly and proudly, that their is still an active community here that has unfulfilled expectations...



#4
Danigral

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Well they certainly won't do anything if we don't even ask. I don't think it's clear at all what FFG intended with their announcement. Yes, Mark of Madness is the last deluxe, and there won't be OP support. But beyond that, why not ask? We know the staff is dedicated to the game and it may be easy to do POD packs with cards already created. We're talking about some hours of graphic design and a space in the queue of their in-house printer. I for one would like to attempt, with optimism, to get something while it is in transition, instead if being defeatist.


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#5
Obtuse

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They might have a stash of promo cards? I know when our guys who finished top 12 at gencon got mailed their playmats they tossed in some extra promos as well. I have high hopes that we'll get hooked up.
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#6
Unnamable

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Danigral has anyone suggested that we shouldn't ask? The opposite I believe is true. I believe there is plenty of enthusiasm in the community without  the need of stirring up drama and labeling folks as 'defeatist'. What this community needs most right now is cooperation and not words that are more likely to splinter it.

 

Well they certainly won't do anything if we din't even ask. I don't think it's clear at all what FFG intended with thei announcement. Yes, Mark of Madness is the last deluxe, and there won't be OP support. But beyond that, why not ask? We know the staff is dedicated to the game and it may be easy to do POD packs with cards already created. We're talking about some hours of graphic design and a space in the queue of their in-house printer. I for one would like to attempt, with optimism, to get something while it is in transition, instead if being defeatist.


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#7
Danigral

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Danigral has anyone suggested that we shouldn't ask? The opposite I believe is true. I believe there is plenty of enthusiasm in the community without  the need of stirring up drama and labeling folks as 'defeatist'. What this community needs most right now is cooperation and not words that are more likely to splinter it.

Don't get offended, Unnamable, please. I agree with you wholeheartedly. But the goal of this thread is to coordinate an effort to communicate with FFG. I did not interpret your comments about my suggestions - which were my own, by the way - being "pie in the sky" as wholly constructive. Perhaps you just wanted to temper my optimism into something more realistic? If you have different thoughts about what to communicate from your perspective, please feel free to add.

 

In general, after discussing with some in FFG, any recommendations for what we want to see at Worlds should go to OP. Any ideas for game legacy or POD support, it was suggested we go to customer service. My feeling is that if we create enough of a coordinated campaign, FFG may be inclined to listen, as has been demonstrated on other occasions, such as garnering increased OP support back in 2012, and gaining a response to slow production timelines and non-communication as recently as 2014.



#8
Unnamable

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No offense taken. I just felt that your use of the label 'defeatist' was working against your stated goal of a 'unified' message. In the spirit of a 'unified' message that FFG might respond to I felt it would be helpful to express my concern that much of what you feel is important to ask for is, if you prefer 'unrealistic' which is a synonym for 'pie in the sky' but also tried to encourage your efforts by saying 'it couldn't hurt to ask'. 

 

Don't get offended, Unnamable, please. I agree with you wholeheartedly. But the goal of this thread is to coordinate an effort to communicate with FFG. I did not interpret your comments about my suggestions - which were my own, by the way - being "pie in the sky" as wholly constructive. Perhaps you just wanted to temper my optimism into something more realistic? If you have different thoughts about what to communicate from your perspective, please feel free to add.

 

In general, after discussing with some in FFG, any recommendations for what we want to see at Worlds should go to OP. Any ideas for game legacy or POD support, it was suggested we go to customer service. My feeling is that if we create enough of a coordinated campaign, FFG may be inclined to listen, as has been demonstrated on other occasions, such as garnering increased OP support back in 2012, and gaining a response to slow production timelines and non-communication as recently as 2014.

 

I will be forwarding my recommendations to the appropriate agents!  :)



#9
Danigral

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Great, we're on the same page! I just felt too much "realism" early on in the thread may also derail any unity.

Do you think that any sort of support by FFG is unrealistic, or do you think there may be something that they might do? I didn't think my suggestions were too out there. What would you LIKE to see may be a better question, unfettered by realism?

#10
Unnamable

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I think that FFG is and has always been understaffed. Taking on more IPs and creating more games that require regular and significant support like LCGs spreads their resources very thin and right up to the point of failure. They are really gonna be up against it to keep up the momentum for their newest ventures not to mention avoiding delays for future ones. I fear that they will literally refuse to commit ANY new resources to this community that haven't already been planned for (Worlds and perhaps a final faq).

 

As for publishing rules for alternate play formats and producing a final faq, I can't imagine why they would do it when this community is perfectly willing and able to do so.

 

Residual prize support, probably doable because it already exists and has little to no retail potential and I certainly expect to see it.

 

What I'd like to see but would be surprised to see;

 

An official farewell event/party at Worlds with dignitaries like Eric Lang, Christian Petersen, Steve Horvath, Nate French, Damon Stone, Brad Andres etc. where we shoot the ****, funny anecdotes about their experiences with the game, their favorite cards/mechanic/subtype/flavor text, what would your champ card be? etc. 

 

Eric Lang participating in a Draft or multi-player tournament.

 

The above individuals packing their favorite Call of Cthulhu decks at Worlds so they can 'gunsling' with us over a beer from the event center bar.

 

Door prizes for any remaining promotional Call of Cthulhu banners and such.



#11
tdnordine

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Great, we're on the same page! I just felt too much "realism" early on in the thread may also derail any unity.


...and I am on the same page as well...I just didn't want peoples expectations to get too high and felt that an injections of realism was warrented.

If you ask for things that are outrageous, FFG will dismiss you as a crackpot. If you don't ask at all, you will get nothing. We as a community need to find that middle ground that is reasonable and possible.
  • Unnamable and GregoryRay like this

#12
alexbobspoons

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While I think this is an unrealistic suggestion and unlikely to happen, I would like to see a POD release of all the CCG cards that never got reprinted into the LCG.

Presumably they still have the art on file, I wouldnt care about the black border as it makes no difference to playing, it wouldnt take any effort to print the current card back instead if the ild card back, they are already committed to doing print runs in POD of the asylum packs... So all it would take would be the time for an FFG employee to identify the cards, dig them out of their digital archive and shove them in a folder/file ready for print (I do not even think as a POD it needs an artwork pack-front).
Really seems minimal effort from FFG and I would love it to happen for completeness, though I suspect it wouldnt happen.
Retaining the black border on the cards would even be a marker to show that these cards are "optional play"
Oh, I should add.. I have no idea how many cards I am talking about here (which is a big factor yes) could be 20 could be 200, no idea.

But thats what I would like from FFG as a swansong for the game :)

Edit: I art-sleeve cards anyway so even if they kept the old card backs I would still want this.

#13
DavFlamerock

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The biggest thing I want for the Cthulhu Legacy would have to come from the fans (most likely).

 

I want photoshop or GIMP templates of all the card frames, so I can make custom cards that look good. I know there are some people who make them for other games (Tom Howard makes flippin fantastic ones for Lord of the Rings), but I've yet to see them for the other two games I play (Star Wars and Cthulhu), and now that there won't be any more real cards I want to be able to make the high-quality custom expansions that I've been slowly percolating.

 

I want to know the fonts they use to properly format cards within these photoshop templates.

 

I don't have the time or skill to make these my own, and I think this would be something that the Cthulhu community would really love and put to good use. It's not worth trying to make a "custom game that's compatible with Cthulhu" and trying to kickstart it. But it is worth making custom expansions that are visually and thematically balanced with the rest of the game, cards that could either be printed out as proxies or printed through POD sites like artscow or SuperiorPoD. This is done in the LotR community and I'd like to see it continue in the Cthulhu community.


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#14
Venenos

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Hi, at first, sorry for my english, I know it's very wrong...

 

Here in Italy, we are a little group of player, we love this game since 2004...

 

Now, we also think for a fan expansion, we talk about in this day...

 

Better it's to make this together, only one accredited group to develop new expansions for all the player around the world; in Europe there are also other players.

 

For example create a new site, like Star Trek CCG or other dead games.

 

I hope to see a fan expansions...


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#15
dboeren

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A lot of the CCG-era cards would be unbalanced if re-released in their current form.  Some too weak, some too strong, etc... To rerelease them properly would take testing and tweaking.  Yes, you could do them as-is and leave the black border as a warning that you're swimming at your own risk, I'm just not sure that this provides a lot of value or will generate enough sales for FFG to be worth the effort for them.


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#16
Unnamable

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I like the idea of making use of  CCG art to help create a exFansion!



#17
Mulletcheese

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I've just arranged, at some expense :( , to get hold of a complete collection of black border cards (minus a few promos) and I've added a scanner to my Xmas list.

Once the new expansion arrives, it's shipping now, I'll merge the CCG and LCG sets together to identify any unreleased cards and unused artwork.

There are a lot of CCG cards that would fit easily into the LCG card pool. But Most would require tweaking first.

I wouldn't add any cards to the pool without thorough playtesting first, maybe we should have thread specifically for people who want to playtest.

We also need a group of rule lawyers to maintain the FAQ and restricted list after the final official FAQ.
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#18
tdnordine

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In regards to the CCG artwork and cards, they are all available in the Lackey package for Call of Cthulhu.  


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#19
Unnamable

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What does the community think about expanding the availability of players to gain the opportunity to design champ cards? Perhaps the top finisher of a sanctioned event with a minimum of 8 participants who has not yet won the honor that season for a total of 6-8 cards a year? What if Champ cards were full card art? What if the entire coming exfansion were full card art?



#20
MagnusArcanis

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What does the community think about expanding the availability of players to gain the opportunity to design champ cards? Perhaps the top finisher of a sanctioned event with a minimum of 8 participants who has not yet won the honor that season for a total of 6-8 cards a year? What if Champ cards were full card art? What if the entire coming exfansion were full card art?


Initially I'm not a fan. Mostly because of the logistics.
1. If there is a fan expansion... People are already designing their own cards.
2. If we want people's face on the card, that'll involve commissioning new art. Which who is paying for that?
3. If people are making their own cards why wait to win a tournament?
4. Who is acting as the developer that your supposed to work with?

Honestly this comes down to not only a question of how many player designed cards but if we can even do them at all.
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