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Lannister banner of the Rose

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#1
CptPugwash

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I think this combination deserves it's own thread as it has many versions available to it. I have seen 4 deck lists for Lannister banner of the Rose and they're completely different. Of course certain key cards remain fairly consistent throughout. Lets explore all the themes available.

Renown Heavy.

Tywin, Randyll, Jamie, KotF.

sitting with any 3 of these after a wildfire you're in a pretty strong position. Multiple renown is pretty scary on defense, your opponent often has 3 difficult choices, either passing the challenge phase, making chud challenges giving you easy power, or over-committing to attacks. 

Control 

Lannister has access to 2 of the best control events going in TTIDFL and Treachery, throw in the Hands Judgement, Tears, Milk, the Bear to manipulate your opponents deck, Varys with bodyguards and duplicates,

Ambush 

Pretty good answer to unopposed stealth challenges, and messes with your opponents challenge maths. All except 1 are Lannister, the exception is the best ambush character of all Olenna's Informant who happens to be a Non-Loyal Tyrell card.

Combo

The Bear and the Tickler. Not much beats Bearing a Baron/Tywin/Rob to the top of your opponents deck, and then tickling it to death along with it's in-play copy.

TTIDFL and the Queens Assassin. Playing TTIDFL to remove your opponent's soul chud, and then hitting them with an Assassin can be game swinging. Difficult to pull off as you need both in hand, at least 6 gold, and the right opportunity, but maybe the best 2 card combo in the game when it works.

Left and Right. Some IMO undeserved stuff written about these 2. Not least the likelihood about keeping both of these during a Wildfire. Sure if you have 3 big hitters they can both go, as by then no doubt they've done a job, but what about if you have 2 big hitters say Tywin and Jamie or KotF. What's a 3 strength bicon that doesn't kneel to defend worth, easily 4 gold maybe 4.5. whereas a 2 strength monocon is barely worth 1.5. Killing both is equivalent to losing probably 8.5 gold worth of character killing just 1 is losing a hefty 7 gold worth of character. To me killing Jamie or KotF is an easy decision in those circumstances unless they are duped up and with power.    

Super Randy T 

The normal Tyrell package of Margaery, Heartsbane, and Growing Strong, throw in Widow's Wail, Little birds, bodyguards, treachery, seal of the hand the hand's judgement, and a suite of plots to support and you have a pretty heavy hitter you can use 3 or 4 times per turn who is difficult to stop.

Warchest 

Tywin, Littlefinger, Moneylenders, Tyrion can generate a whole bucket load of money to pay for your control events and/or ambush effects, or be able to swing dominance. A standing Tywin with say 6 gold, that's 18 for dominance to start with.

Hand Control

Got a lot better with Here to Serve. Having the ability to get either GM Pycelle or M Lomys is handy. Cersei, Casterly Rock and Olenna's Informant can pretty much strip an opponents hand in 1 turn. Add to that the fact that you can guarantee to ambush in Olenna's  Informant if you have Tyrion in play.  


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#2
PulseGlazer

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I think I like this deck for some reason.
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#3
jstrong77

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It seems to me there are two main builds here: Renown focus with a smattering of everything else, or Control that focuses on denying draw, gaining hand advantage, and then leveraging Varys.

First strategy seems ike a tent-pole build whereas second is more of a mini curve.

Do people try to build hybrid of the two, or is leaning in one direction more optimal?

#4
TR808

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I played against a Lannister Banner of the Rose deck last night, it's a strong combination.



#5
jstrong77

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Here's my latest version. Ever since The Hound was released I'm loving PttS in all Lanni builds.
Plot (7)

2x A Noble Cause
1x Calling the Banners
1x Calm Over Westeros
1x Confiscation
1x Power Behind the Throne
1x Wildfire Assault

Character (34)
3x Burned Men
1x Cersei Lannister
3x Courtesan of the Rose
3x Garden Caretaker
1x Grand Maester Pycelle
3x Lannisport Merchant
1x Littlefinger
2x Margaery Tyrell
2x Randyll Tarly
1x Rattleshirt's Raiders
2x Ser Jaime Lannister
3x The Hound
2x The Knight of Flowers
1x The Tickler
3x Tyrion Lannister
3x Tywin Lannister

Attachment (5)
2x Milk of the Poppy
2x Seal of the Hand
1x Widow's Wail

Location (12)
1x Cersei's Wheelhouse
3x Lannisport
3x The Kingsroad
3x The Roseroad
2x Western Fiefdom

Event (9)
3x Put to the Sword
2x Tears of Lys
1x The Things I Do For Love
3x Treachery

#6
CptPugwash

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@ Jstrong Not having played this as military heavy i can't comment on that deck from experience, but intuitively i would think that a deck built around PttS can't help but benefit from Gold Cloaks and probably a 2nd Widows Wail. Also as you don't need your faction card for anything else a 7 str bicon for 5 cost is not to be sneezed at (Wildling Horde)    



#7
PulseGlazer

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My build, if you missed it: http://thronesdb.com...-lanny-rose-1.0



#8
GIBraag

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I think I like this deck for some reason.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that reason is you won Red Saturday with it. ;p

#9
jstrong77

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Re: Red Saturday deck, isn't it pretty risky to run 2x Varys when you have so few duped for key characters, and no bodyguards?

#10
PulseGlazer

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Re: Red Saturday deck, isn't it pretty risky to run 2x Varys when you have so few duped for key characters, and no bodyguards?

 

No. If I draw well, I am not at all in trouble with a clean board. I have lots of high gold plots and good economy. I just rebuild first.  I'm used to playing with Valar.


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#11
CptPugwash

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@PulseGlazer. I've checked out your list, and that's the great thing about Lanni Rose, even with the limited pool there's so many options that it's impossible to squeeze everything in.

Couple of questions about your deck.

No A Game of Thrones. Do you not feel vulnerable to an opening 3/4 claim military from Greyjoy/Stark, also it's great later game to feed the imp.

TTIDFL is the money card in my deck list, I can't imagine not being able to find room for at least 2 in any Lanni Rose list.

Do you get much use out of Lannisport? Admittedly my list is relatively intrigue light but i found i rarely wanted to spend 3 gold on it early game, and most games it was clogging my hand.

I see you run the maximum 6 1-costers, are you using these primarily for the reduction or to maximize the chances of setting up with Tywin?  

Only 2 Randy's ? He is definitely my No 2 MVP behind Tywin, I've had plenty games where i've finished with 6+ power on him. If you feel your list is already top heavy Id cut either the 2nd Jamie or even a 3rd Tyrion for him, maybe your experience is different to mine. . 


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#12
PulseGlazer

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No Game of Thrones.  It's a good plot that could fit, but just wasn't needed.  I roll Stark, and for GJ?  If they hit everything they need right away, they win. If they don't, I win.   A Calm open in that is usually enough for the stall.

 

TIDFL probably belongs. Check Ep 228 of White Book for more on that.  What I'd cut for it is in the comments (and I don't remember and am being lazy - I know x1 Tyrell Knight)

 

Lannisport is reliable draw.  I find a way to play it and it suddenly ups the importance of intrigue for me every time.  It's great.  There's this rumor that draw = win.

 

Randyll is great, but he's the only real Tears target in the deck.  Since that makes him most likely big guy to die and dead draw loses games, he's a 2 of.  



#13
scantrell24

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Here's my list and report from the Atlanta store championship.



#14
CptPugwash

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This is my list that won an 18 person winter kit tournament.

 

I started with a modified win 9-8, then a draw 8-8, after 2 full wins somehow i found myself top of the rankings going into the final swiss round. Despite a loss in the final round which left me on 16 pts out of 25 i scraped into the final 4. As it happens i'd played the other 3 semi-finalists in the swiss.

 

The deck ran very well on set-up, 4 out of 7 times I set up tywin with a reducer.

 

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com A Game of Thrones 2nd Edition Deckbuilder
 
 
Total Cards: (60)
 
Faction: 
 Lannister
 
 
Agenda: (1)
1x Banner of the Rose (Core Set)
 
Plot: (7)
1x A Game of Thrones (Core Set)
1x Calling the Banners (Core Set)
1x Calm Over Westeros (Core Set)
1x Confiscation (Core Set)
1x Power Behind the Throne (Core Set)
1x Summons (Core Set)
1x Wildfire Assault (Core Set)
 
Character: (38)
2x Arbor Knight (Taking the Black)
3x Burned Men (Core Set)
1x Garden Caretaker (Core Set)
3x Gold Cloaks (Core Set)
1x Grand Maester Pycelle (Core Set)
3x Lannisport Merchant (Core Set)
3x Lannisport Moneylender (Core Set)
1x Littlefinger (Core Set)
3x Margaery Tyrell (Core Set)
3x Olenna’s Informant (Core Set)
3x Randyll Tarly (Core Set)
1x Ser Jaime Lannister (Core Set)
2x The Hound (Taking the Black)
1x The Knight of Flowers (Core Set)
1x The Queen’s Assassin (Core Set)
1x The Tickler (Core Set)
3x Tyrion Lannister (Core Set)
3x Tywin Lannister (Core Set)
 
Attachment: (5)
1x Heartsbane (Core Set)
2x Seal of the Hand (Core Set)
2x Widow’s Wail (Core Set)
 
Event: (10)
2x Tears of Lys (Core Set)
2x The Hand’s Judgment (Core Set)
3x The Things I Do For Love (Core Set)
3x Treachery (Core Set)
 
Location: (7)
1x Lannisport (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)
 

The principle behind the deck is to keep most of the money from marshalling, use a monster Tywin (preferably twice), then spend the money on either the many ambush effects or TTIDFL. 

The deck is relatively light on intrigue (for a Lanni Rose deck) & only 7 locations.The deck wins by Renown.    

 

There's very little in the Road to Winterfell which is going to make a significant difference to this version of the deck.

Lady Sansa's Rose - The only lady i run is Margery (x3) and my only Knights are Jamie(x1) KotF(x1) & Arbor Knight(x2) so i can't see this making my deck. The only new card will be Political disaster, probably for either Calm of AGoT.



#15
jstrong77

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CptPug, would you sub Wardens of the West for Calling the Banners?

#16
Zigur

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1)  If you're playing Gold Cloaks, have you considered Muster the Realm?

 

2)  Why only 1 Tyrell reducer?

 

3)  You have 3 draw cards from my count.  Did you feel starved for cards?

 

4)  How did the Moneylenders perform?  Do you prefer them to the 0 cost reducers?

 

5)  If you're running The Hound, Gold Cloaks, and Burned Men, wouldn't it make sense to slot in Put to the Sword?

 

6)  Brothel Madame?

 

7)  Why political disaster?  Lots of Bara/GJ/NW in your meta?

 

8)  Cersei's wheelhouse?



#17
CptPugwash

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CptPug, would you sub Wardens of the West for Calling the Banners?

There's lots of decklists that out intrigue mine - so if i did run Wardens it would be in place of AGot. I wouldn't want to run 2 plots that are heavily intrigue themed.   



#18
CptPugwash

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1)  If you're playing Gold Cloaks, have you considered Muster the Realm?

 

2)  Why only 1 Tyrell reducer?

 

3)  You have 3 draw cards from my count.  Did you feel starved for cards?

 

4)  How did the Moneylenders perform?  Do you prefer them to the 0 cost reducers?

 

5)  If you're running The Hound, Gold Cloaks, and Burned Men, wouldn't it make sense to slot in Put to the Sword?

 

6)  Brothel Madame?

 

7)  Why political disaster?  Lots of Bara/GJ/NW in your meta?

 

8)  Cersei's wheelhouse?

1) 6 of my 7 current Plots are absolutely needed for the deck, the only 1 i can spare is either Calm or AGoT, using that 7th slot for Muster the Realm doesn't seem worth it to me for a deck with only 3 Armies (even if they have ambush).

2) The lone Tyrell reducer is mainly there to slightly increase the chance of a  Tywin set-up, Randy apart there isn't much use for them.

3) TBH no. most turns I don't play that many cards. I probably marshal on average marginally over 1 card per turn. Only 1 game so far have i ended up topdecking and that was to a very heavy Lannister intrigue deck that milked my Tywin twice.

4).Absolutely, but that is because this particular deck relies on money in the hand not reducers in the bush. Moneylenders tank Tywin, Western Fiefdoms don't.

5) Maybe, but in place of what. I find that i'm rarely bothered about winning military challenges with this deck. If i'm first player I tend to chump attack on military, Intrigue with Tywin (assuming I can stand him back up) and Power with Randy. As second player i have a lot more options but my main aim is to nearly always to get renown.

6) Maybe i might squeeze in 1 Madame, but in the match-ups i'm playing the most, a 12+str Tywin and standing Randy's tends to put most people off attacking me. Even if they can stealth out my big guns i tend to have a hand full of Ambush.

7) I'm not sure of putting this in, but at 7 Locations I'm pretty sure i have the lowest Location count of any deck that's winning anything, so it's always going to be a swing in my favour by turn 4 or 5.

8) Not for me. Given the choice i'm always going 2nd unless either I'm staring down the barrel of a high claim military deck with stealth which i could disrupt by going first, or either it looks like either my opponent or me can close out the game going first. I like Plots which tend to give me the initiative more often than not, so the -1 initiative modifier puts me off, and honestly i don't as a rule need the draw. Bear in mind you have to be the first player 3 times after it's marshalled before it's become advantageous.



#19
Zigur

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1) 6 of my 7 current Plots are absolutely needed for the deck, the only 1 i can spare is either Calm or AGoT, using that 7th slot for Muster the Realm doesn't seem worth it to me for a deck with only 3 Armies (even if they have ambush).

 

 

Fair, it is kind of gimmicky.  Fun when it goes off, though.

 

2) The lone Tyrell reducer is mainly there to slightly increase the chance of a  Tywin set-up, Randy apart there isn't much use for them.

 

 

 

I always run at least 2x of the reducer, usually 3x.  One of the main advantages of a Banner is getting access to cheap chuds that are great on setup, great claim soak, and help boost your deck's economy.  I mean it looks like you should have enough Tyrell characters to play them if they aren't used to soak MIL right?

 

3) TBH no. most turns I don't play that many cards. I probably marshal on average marginally over 1 card per turn. Only 1 game so far have i ended up topdecking and that was to a very heavy Lannister intrigue deck that milked my Tywin twice.

 

 
That's fair, your curve is high enough you won't be playing out your hand.
 
4).Absolutely, but that is because this particular deck relies on money in the hand not reducers in the bush. Moneylenders tank Tywin, Western Fiefdoms don't.

 

I guess you're kinda using these guys instead of the Tyrell reducers as well?  Interesting.  Might give that a shot.

 

 

5) Maybe, but in place of what. I find that i'm rarely bothered about winning military challenges with this deck. If i'm first player I tend to chump attack on military, Intrigue with Tywin (assuming I can stand him back up) and Power with Randy. As second player i have a lot more options but my main aim is to nearly always to get renown.

 

 

 
I'd say the first cuts to your deck would probably be the Gold Cloaks and/or the Informants so presumably one of those?  It's money to have since Tywin is great at forcing it, as is the Hound.  Something to experiment with, I don't find I have much trouble getting it off or affording it in my Lanni/Rose deck.
 
6) Maybe i might squeeze in 1 Madame, but in the match-ups i'm playing the most, a 12+str Tywin and standing Randy's tends to put most people off attacking me. Even if they can stealth out my big guns i tend to have a hand full of Ambush.

 

 

True, but it also forced them to alter their marshaling if they want to attack.  I'd say 1x or 2x is worth experimenting with.

 

7) I'm not sure of putting this in, but at 7 Locations I'm pretty sure i have the lowest Location count of any deck that's winning anything, so it's always going to be a swing in my favour by turn 4 or 5.

 

 

That's true, your location count is pretty low.  It's definitely strong vs NW/GJ and to a lesser extent Bara but I'm hesitant to include it because I worry its value will depend on luck of the draw in the other matchups.  I suppose if you're deliberately low on locations to increase its swing potential that helps.  

 

 

8) Not for me. Given the choice i'm always going 2nd unless either I'm staring down the barrel of a high claim military deck with stealth which i could disrupt by going first, or either it looks like either my opponent or me can close out the game going first. I like Plots which tend to give me the initiative more often than not, so the -1 initiative modifier puts me off, and honestly i don't as a rule need the draw. Bear in mind you have to be the first player 3 times after it's marshalled before it's become advantageous.

 

 
I don't think you need to be first player 3 times.  Once and you break even cost wise, twice and you're ahead.  It would depend how much/little you value the initiative.  I see it as paying 1 gold to put your opponent to a hard choice: you either get card/gold advantage, or you go second, which is what you preferred all along.  It's win/win, in my eyes.


#20
CptPugwash

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Lanni Rose is back.

 

After Nymeria knocked Lanni-Rose from it's No 1 Spot, First Snow pushes it even further clear at the top than it was before.