21 replies to this topic

[VonWibble]

In terms of true control, this deck feels like the one, though I still feel a few tweaks are needed.

I don't play dozens of games so more experienced players can poke holes for sure. I have not won much with it yet, but all the games have been close and I have faced Targ Rose (lost due to my player error), Lanni (timed loss, was in position to take it had it gone on), Bara Rose (really close game, hinged on my Bob turning up to late). After those games I tweaked the deck and it seemed to improve, beating a Stark Tyrell deck and losing against Greyjoy Sun (player error again).

Conclusion so far is that I think the deck is solid, more so than the pilot!


Total Cards: (61)

Faction:
Baratheon


Agenda: (1)
1x Banner of the Sun (Core Set)

Plot: (7)
1x Calling the Banners (Core Set)
1x Calm Over Westeros (Core Set)
1x Counting Coppers (Core Set)
1x Here to Serve (Taking the Black)
2x Summons (Core Set)
1x Wildfire Assault (Core Set)

Character: (36)
3x Bastard Daughter (Taking the Black)
3x Bastard in Hiding (Core Set)
3x Desert Scavenger (Core Set)
3x Dragonstone Faithful (Core Set)
1x Edric Dayne (Core Set)
3x Fiery Followers (Core Set)
3x House Dayne Knight (Core Set)
1x Maester Caleotte (Core Set)
1x Maester Cressen (Core Set)
3x Melisandre (Core Set)
3x Nymeria Sand (The Road to Winterfell)
1x Obara Sand (Core Set)
3x Robert Baratheon (Core Set)
2x Royal Entourage (The Road to Winterfell)
1x Selyse Baratheon (Core Set)
1x Ser Davos Seaworth (Core Set)
1x Shireen Baratheon (Core Set)

Attachment: (2)
1x Dawn (Core Set)
1x Lightbringer (Core Set)

Event: (12)
2x Consolidation of Power (Core Set)
2x In Doran’s Name (The Road to Winterfell)
2x In the Name of Your King! (The Road to Winterfell)
3x Seen In Flames (Core Set)
3x Tears of Lys (Core Set)

Location: (11)
2x Dragonstone Port (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)
3x The Red Keep (Core Set)


Unsurprisingly for a control deck, there is kneel and icon removal aplenty.


Reasons for the more controversial choices -

Confinement - Not running it. So many Confinement targets are just as susceptible to Consolidation of power, which also prevents dom. And it does nothing against the guys I really want to kneel, given that Greyjoy going first will often use scouts to pump Asha and Theon, and Lanni like to put Widow's Wail on Tyrion. What it does do is make more targets for Tears and remove chud blockers for when I want to close out a game, but I think that isn't enough.

In Doran's Name - Really liking this card. Early game its surprise gold to pull of Tears if they don't bother defending intrigue. Late game it lets me gets stuff out on a Counting Coppers turn. As long as I don't have both copies in hand turn 1 I'm happy. It also lets me run a slightly lower plot gold curve (plut the fact only 9 of my guys cost 5 or more, the rest are 3 or less).

No Noble Cause - Not enough targets. Calling the Banners will often do as much for me, with less risk of being hit by Naval.

2 x Summons - Finding Mel or Fiery Followers to trigger Mel is great.

Here to Serve - Jury is still out, but given my icon removal attachments like Seal don't worry me too much. Milk otoh does, so searching out Cressen seems more efficient than Confiscation will be. I haven't suffered with finding both Maesters early though. Maybe finding room for another Caleotte?

Wildfire - High initiative, and keeps the board where I can kneel 1 guy (nice when Shireen does this, Bastard Daughter also likes this plot), icon control another and get through easily enough.

No Stannis - Wildfire is enough control in general and I'd need more money for him.



One weakness - not that many intrigue icons. Enough to trigger Tears, but not enough to defend also. I'm thinking of removing the Entourages for +1 Caleotte and +1 Selyse to help with this, hoping the gold curve isn't too high as a result.

Thoughts and (constructive) criticism welcome.

[cml]

I don't especially like Here to Serve in here - you have 2x Summons, which gives you plenty of chances to try and fish out Cressen already.  Given that, HtS feels like overkill to me, and always runs the risk of being a dead plot on a particularly (un)fortunate draw early.

 

I am a big fan of running 3 economy plots (which I define as bringing you 5+ gold consistently).  Calling and Calm are both great, but I would look at swapping out HtS for one more econ plot of some sort.  My first thought would be either Sneak Attack or A Feast for Crows, either of which can serve as a closing plot for you as well.

[OKTarg]

I've been working on this type of build and I wonder if a Renly is a decent option given the number of Martel and neutral characters I want to run. Have you tried him out?

[VonWibble]

I don't especially like Here to Serve in here - you have 2x Summons, which gives you plenty of chances to try and fish out Cressen already.  Given that, HtS feels like overkill to me, and always runs the risk of being a dead plot on a particularly (un)fortunate draw early.
 
I am a big fan of running 3 economy plots (which I define as bringing you 5+ gold consistently).  Calling and Calm are both great, but I would look at swapping out HtS for one more econ plot of some sort.  My first thought would be either Sneak Attack or A Feast for Crows, either of which can serve as a closing plot for you as well.

I have to agree on HTS, its been a doubtful one for a while. Feast could work I suppose, I am also wondering about Trading. The latter would allow me to run Stannis and Syrio more easily, and if you have Stannis and keel it doesn't matter too much if the opponent has lots of guys or an extra big guy out.

Haven't tried Renly, given Littlefinger isn't in the deck I'd surely look at him first though?

[ojimijam]

I'm amazed that you aren't running painted table /throne in this, the amount of control is excellent but without them how do you actually win games?

Also re confinement, it works before GJ pumps so some of the justification for not using it is wrong.

[VonWibble]

What would you cut for those cards though? I certainly can't see any events I'd choose to lose for Confinement.

[ojimijam]

What would you cut for those cards though? I certainly can't see any events I'd choose to lose for Confinement.

Honestly in not sure, I've not tested dorans name so I can't say that, I was just pointing out a fallacy.

What plot do your games normally go to?

[hagarrr]

Have you tested this at all yet VonWibble?

 

I've a reasonably similar list (7/8 cards different), but my plots are very different; Filthy x2, Confiscation, Calling, Wildfire, Noble (I'm using Stannis), and Summons...

[VonWibble]

Honestly in not sure, I've not tested dorans name so I can't say that, I was just pointing out a fallacy.

What plot do your games normally go to?

Plot 6 minimum. Doran's Name doesn't need that though. It has twice allowed me to play Tears plot 2 when I needed all the gold in marshalling to get enough characters out.

Of course, it has also given me +4 gold on a Counting Coppers turn, which is huge.

You are correct about the Greyjoy thing, not playing them that often I didn't realise they have to be in the challenge for the boat to pump strength. On Confinement I think in general I'd go up to 3 x Consolidation and 2 x Hand's Judgement before putting that in though, and that's too big an event package. Iron Throne and Painted table do fit btw, its just that again I don't know what I'd cut for them. I also worry I wouldn't have enough money to accommodate that slight loss of tempo.

hagarrr - I have played 6 games with it now, which I appreciate is a very small sample. It has performed a lot better since I have tweaked it, with the only loss being due to me miscalculating a power challenge late game.

On plots you are going for more control from the plot cards, I am going for searching my decks to find control pieces. If I did add Stannis to the deck I'd drop Wildfire for Noble Cause. I think both approaches can work tbh, we'll have to see.

[Slippy]

I played this deck for a couple of gamenights. My experience with it is that it doesn't rack up power fast enough. It was very dependent on either Bob or Painted Table/Iron Throne and you don't even play the last two.
I averaged about 7-9 plots before the game ended and I played one game to 15 plots and still lost because my opponent had alternative ways to get power and I did not. 

 

[VonWibble]

Yeah, it is slow for sure.

I'm thinking with the next pack that Iron Throne and Painted Table go in, with Gendry for good measure. I can afford to lose a few characters for this.

[jaycr0]

I decided to give this deck a try. Here's what I'm currently working with:

House Baratheon
Banner of the Sun

Draw deck: 61 cards
Plot deck: 7 cards

Plot (7)
1x A Noble Cause
1x Calling the Banners
1x Calm Over Westeros
1x Filthy Accusations
1x Here to Serve
1x Summons
1x Wildfire Assault

Character (34)
3x Bastard Daughter
1x Desert Scavenger
3x Dragonstone Faithful
3x Fiery Followers
3x House Dayne Knight
1x Littlefinger
1x Maester Caleotte
1x Maester Cressen
3x Melisandre
3x Nymeria Sand
2x Obara Sand
1x Rattleshirt's Raiders
3x Robert Baratheon
1x Ser Davos Seaworth
1x Shireen Baratheon
2x Stannis Baratheon
2x Vanguard Lancer

Attachment (5)
1x Dawn
1x Lightbringer
2x Milk of the Poppy
1x Seal of the Hand

Location (13)
2x Chamber of the Painted Table
2x Dragonstone Port
1x The Iron Throne
3x The Kingsroad
2x The Red Keep
3x The Roseroad

Event (9)
2x Confinement
2x Put to the Sword
3x Seen In Flames
2x The Hand's Judgment

[GrahamM]

I think it would be a mistake to run fewer than 3 Stannis, given how absolutely dominant things like Tyrell and Lannister LotC can be if not immediately shut down

[jaycr0]

I'm not sure what to cut for him... Maybe a Milk? Those two milks are really luxury cards that aren't strictly necessary I suppose. Or put Bob to 2x? Keeps my total number of expensive guys the same. Bob isn't necessary either... he's just really really good.

[LoneElfRanger]

I'd probably cut Dawn.

[jaycr0]

I'd probably cut Dawn.

You're probably right. I'm mostly including it as a str boost for Mel against Targaryen with the fringe benefit of sticking it on a knight when safe from burn and having extra intimidate on the table. Plus this deck tends to run long games.

But having burn protection and a little combo is a smaller concern than not having Stannis in every match.

[CptPugwash]

Here's the decklist i won a store championship with. I decided to switch from my usual Lanni Rose as Nymeria slaughters my version of the deck.

 

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com A Game of Thrones 2nd Edition Deckbuilder

 

 

Total Cards: (60)

 

Faction: 

 Baratheon

 

 

Agenda: (1)

1x Banner of the Sun (Core Set)

 

Plot: (7)

1x A Game of Thrones (Core Set)

1x A Noble Cause (Core Set)

2x Filthy Accusations (Core Set)

1x Here to Serve (Taking the Black)

1x Summons (Core Set)

1x Wildfire Assault (Core Set)

 

Character: (35)

2x Arianne Martell (Core Set)

3x Bastard Daughter (Taking the Black)

3x Desert Scavenger (Core Set)

3x Dragonstone Faithful (Core Set)

3x Fiery Followers (Core Set)

1x House Dayne Knight (Core Set)

1x Maester Caleotte (Core Set)

1x Maester Cressen (Core Set)

3x Melisandre (Core Set)

1x Moon Boy (The King's Peace)

3x Nymeria Sand (The Road to Winterfell)

1x Obara Sand (Core Set)

2x Robert Baratheon (Core Set)

1x Selyse Baratheon (Core Set)

1x Ser Davos Seaworth (Core Set)

1x Shireen Baratheon (Core Set)

3x Stannis Baratheon (Core Set)

2x Royal Entourage (The Road to Winterfell)

 

Attachment: (3)

2x Attainted (The King's Peace)

1x Lightbringer (Core Set)

 

Event: (10)

1x Confinement (Core Set)

3x Consolidation of Power (Core Set)

3x Seen In Flames (Core Set)

3x Tears of Lys (Core Set)

 

Location: (12)

1x Chamber of the Painted Table (Core Set)

2x Dragonstone Port (Core Set)

3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)

3x The Red Keep (Core Set)

3x The Roseroad (Core Set)

 

The plan is quite simple I'm looking for Mel or Nymeria in my opening hand. Failing that I either want a 5+ card set-up or a decent hand with Stannis. The opening Plot is very versatile.

 

Big Fat Bob is definitely right at a maximum of 2-of. He's a great card once you have established board dominance, but early on he's a big fat target for either tears or PttS with any sort of stealth.

The first thing i'd cut is at least 1 of the Red Keeps possibly 2, my version is an intrigue deck not a power deck. I'm tempted with Shadowbrick Lane as an alternative as it's such a good set-up card, but i feel 7 in house events is probably the minimum you need to run with that.

 

I was very happy with my choice of plots. There was just 1 game where it came to the 5th plot and i was faced with the unpleasant choice of Here to Serve with both maesters in play, WIldfire Assault with a 7 to 4 character count in my favour, or A Game of Thrones facing Tywin, Tyrion and  Jamie.  

 

Other stuff is just tweaking. There's a plethora of 2-costs for this deck. Bastard Daughter is an auto 3-of, and i prefer both House Dayne Knight (as it has the 2 icons i need most) and Royal Entourage ( I don't expect to lose many intrigue challenges) to the Vanguard Lancer.     

 

In theory it looks like a slow deck  (only 2 Bobs, 1 painted table, and 1 Lightbringer (for Stannis)), and some games were indeed slogs, but i get bucket loads of unopposed through and usually win dominance. 1 game i won on turn 3 even without any of the power boosts, in another game a Dragonstone Ally picked up 7 power in the first 4 turns through 3 unopposed power challenges and 1 that was opposed but he still won.    

[jaycr0]

I've been playing Lannister Sun since launch so it's been nice not playing an intrigue deck for once. Although the idea of doing it with Bara is appealing...

I think it would be a mistake to run fewer than 3 Stannis, given how absolutely dominant things like Tyrell and Lannister LotC can be if not immediately shut down

I cut a milk for Stannis (for now) and started running setup simulations.

This is the right call. With my curve the way it is I'm regularly setting up or having on turn one two of Nym, Stannis, Mel, and Big Fat Bob. Usually with a third in hand ready to drop and a good event/location available.

I'll have to see how it goes because I know I need to watch out for Tears on Stannis but even then it isn't really the end of the world. I have so many good control characters I can handle a loss. That said if I'm afraid of Tears I should be able to hold off Intrigue decently well and I have Seen In Flames as a contingency.

I almost want to cut Summons for economy or another Filthy Accusations but I know as soon as I do that I'm going to be desperate for Mel and not see her so I think I'll let it be.

[jaycr0]

This is going to be a long post since it's some combination of tournament report, thoughts, and deckbuilding.

I tried a version of this at a SC (fairly modified from the list I posted here). It used PttS for kill, basically punted INT (hoping Nym would hamstring that challenge), and wanted to win POW and DOM. It didn't go well.

The main thing that hurt me was economy. If I didn't set up decent economy and draw into more later I was in trouble. And I basically HAD to setup Stannis or Mel because if I didn't I was risking not being able to afford them later. I had too many games where Robert sat in my hand the whole time.

The other idea for the deck was to not rely on a single character. If I lost Bob or Nym or even Stannis I still had a lot of control with the others. The problem with this is again economy. If Bob eats Tears and Nym is on the board I have a hard time getting Stannis or Mel out at all. Now it's Nym and chuds against the world. The world wins.

I played four games:

vs Targ fealty:
Actually decently close. Mel got PttS early but Stannis and Nym do work anyway. Nym ate Tears and... well maybe the worst play of my life followed. I Here to Serve for Cressen, forget to use his ability for some reason, then throw him at a chump challenge and get Dracarys'd.

I've never deserved a loss more. My opponent played well too but boy was that the stupidest moment I've had in a while.

vs Greyjoy fealty
Another tight match. Nym died in turn 1 but I kept in it. I ended up losing by 1 because my opponent saved his Calm for a turn I was going to hit 15 power and ended up winning on renown.

vs Lanni Rose
Nothing went right for me here. I had Stannis going but he had Tywin, Tyrion, Jaime, and a huge board. Not close.

vs Tyrell Wolf
My only game where I played the knights deck I was teching against! In my defense this worked perfectly. I set up Stannis into a turn 1 Mel and turn 2 Bob. That's basically the dream for the deck.

Even with two close matches I can't really let a 1-3 deck go without significant changes.

I've already broken the deck down and can't post it but the first change is easy: In Doran's Name. Even turn 2 it's enough to pay for Mel on a Summons. I also cut a card that basically never pulled its weight in Dawn. I also never played a Bastard Daughter when I had a Bastard in Hiding in hand so I added more Hiding and dropped a Daughter. I ended up using Wildfire more for initiative than the effect so I swapped it with Calling the Banners.

I think Bob and/or Stannis can drop, and I'm leaning towards 1x Bob and moving towards a more dominance heavy strategy with the release of Gendry since something like 1/6 of my a deck is bastards anyway, plus he's going to survive first snow. Then add Tears and Attainted (since going Bobless makes this less MIL heavy anyway).

I still have questions about locations (is Red Keep still an auto 2x if I'm going for big dominance?) and attachments (less Bob makes Lightbringer worse and Warhammer better) and my curve in a first snow meta (I have a good amount of things it'll hit, key characters, and no middle). But I'll figure those out as I go.

[CptPugwash]

@Jay.

I think it was a mistake to go PttS with a Bara Sun deck. Between Nymeria & Attained this deck had the potential to Tears any character.

IMO the Priority in most match ups should be Mel, Nymeria, Stannis Bob in that order.

 

I always felt Bara Sun had at least a small edge in any match up except possibly Targ, light as it is in characters outside the Dracarys range, and its 2 main characters both susceptible to the dreaded crown..

 

The question is where is it now post First Snow into Marched. I can only see 2 answers.

Firstly up Arianne to 3 (This was always a possibility anyway, as quite a few of my games involved dropping Arrianne virtually every turn.) This allows us to switch in a chud for the Marched follow up.

Secondly increase the Selyse/Shireen/Bodyguard or Davos count. This doesn't feel natural as 1-of each seems about right.

 

Does anyone else have answers or is it just a case of hoping First Snow into Marched doesn't happen?