566 replies to this topic

[sparrowhawk]

One of my favourite threads in 1E was TV Show Discussion which ran for 52 pages. I never once contributed to it but following it felt like 21st century social eavesdropping on the conversations of forum regulars and anyone who had an opinion or wanted to add speculation fuel to a raging fire.

I would like to re-start it here (because nobody visits the 1E forum) and I hope both veterans and newcomers will come out of the woodwork and recreate the ambience of its predecessor. Like listening to the props and slops at the end of The White Book, fast becoming my fave segment as a joyous celebration of geekdom.

As a starter for 10, here is a long list of rumours and confirmations from a respected UK press site of unfortunate political leanings.

On the same site, here is an article detailing two mathematicians' neural network calculations of the rank of major characters in the books which I found fascinating - but then I'm a sad mathmo geek beyond redemption.

Now I'm hopeless at small talk. At dinner parties, I would pipe up something like "I read in The Economist that larger families and lower IQ children are correlated - do you think the human race is doomed by the greater procreation of low IQ genes?" without first researching how many children the attendants have - and then be mystified by the embarrassed silence afterwards (and yes, the pause was most definitely pregnant). So blessed with natural social awkwardness and an utter lack of social graces, I was hoping that those hobby stalwarts who are more happy to wildly speculate will post on this thread and enliven the forum.

So over to you. Please. I'd like to read all my show gossip in one place like I used to! Ideally from usernames with personalities that I'm virtually familiar with. I miss that TV Show Discussion thread...

(Yeah, I should be focusing on writing my next post in a more weighty thread I started but I'm in a "fluffy" mood right now.)

So gossip away. Please.

[TrueLolzor]

I hope Snow gets revived by Melisandre and kicks some traitorous ass.

[sparrowhawk]

I think we all do. The "blood in the snow" tweet seems to hint at Mel's blood magic and the R+L=J solution as he needs to be royal blood.

SPOILERS potentially is a necessary warning on this thread...

But the really interesting thing is how they are going to manage all the detective work that the fans have now done to the story. Even Tywin's "you are no son of mine" to Tyrion as dying words. It's all a bit too telegraphed who the 3 dragon riders will be, who will fulfill Cersei's prophecied death etc.

I think they will have to deviate hugely from the GRMM story arc that they are privvy to because they need to surprise and prove all these theories wrong.

I also feel that HBO's weekly model may be eclipsed by Netflix's binge-watch model where you can get totally immersed in a storyline without having theories from fans and experts pre-empt big reveals. Though of course weekly is more social for a discussion thread.

If Iain McShane is Septon Ribald (?) who resurrects The Hound, I quite like that priests of 3 religions are able to do this (with Aeron, Mel/Thoros) with Bran as an adept of The Old Gods. It appeals to the D&D clerical spell list stickler in me...

My only other hope is they don't miscast as badly as The Sand Snakes (the entire Dorne script was awful too). Whilst the Ellaria and Snakes farewell to Myrcella was sufficiently vindictive and done well just as the father-daughter topic was broached, the rest of the Dorne scenes made me cringe.

[Vorrt]

So I had a long discussion about this on the ride home from the Michigan regional on Saturday and here's the theories we came up with:

 

**Spoiler tag for those who may request such things**

Spoiler

- Lannister is done this season, through the manipulations of Littlefinger.  He convinces House Tyrell to persuade Tommen to acknowledge that he is fact the son of Cersei and Jaime.  In doing so, Tommen also recognizes that Gendry is the last living Baratheon who possess's the best claim for the throne. 

- Littlefinger convinces Tyrell to do all of the above on the promise that Margery will be the spouse of Gendry and she will still be queen.

- Littlefinger will betray Tyrell in the process of all this, instead presenting Sansa to Gendry as his bride to be.  Sansa will be named the Lady of Winterfell and Head of the Starks.  This gives Baratheon a claim on the throne again, as well as control over the North where they can put the eventual children of Gendry and Sansa has heads of the House of Stark (to ensure a loyal house in control of the North and to remove any sibling fights for eventual succession of the throne)

- Dany is brought back to Vaes Dothrak, but "saved" by Drogon.  This will some how unify the Dothraki behind Dany and make their way to Westeros

- Arya will fail in her training in the House of the Faceless God.  She will leave and find her way back to Westeros, ending up in the Crossings.  She will kill Walder Frey as part of her list, and start moving south afterwards, only to find the rest of her list is already dead.  She'll end up becoming the new Varys

- Tyrion tries to run the city in Dany's absence, in her style and find that it won't work.  Varys will show up and convince him to join him back in Westeros to help Dany reclaim the throne with her Dothraki army.  He'll end up becoming the Hand again.

- Sam becomes a Maester, probably replacing Pycelle to serve Dany.  He'll drop Gilly off at his family's lands, recognizing her son as his bastard.

- Loras will lose his trial by combat against Ser Robert Strong.  It'll be revealed he's Gregor reanimated, which will cause Tyrell to rise up against Lannister.  Cersei will snap and use the remaining wildfire to burn King's Landing in retaliation and die by her own hands

- GreyJoy will sack Tyrell lands..for reasons I can't remember

- Jon will come back via Melisandre

- and the grand daddy of all theories: Daario is the head of the Sons of the Harpy.  He used the group to prod and coerce Dany into doing away with the masters.  

[sparrowhawk]

Oh my. I thought I had some fanciful theories but some of those are just beyond... Of course, in 3 months time, you can remind us of your theories and feel smug about all the far-out theories you got right.
 
I agree that a few of them are likely (Dany, Greyjoy and Jon) but the rest are too fanciful. Next thing you will be telling us Daario is actually Benjen!
 
I wonder if the show hires people to spread the crackpot theories to obfuscate what is an elegant but far too telegraphed story arc? Do you work for HBO, Vorrt?
 
Here's what I see evolving in this season - please do not read and then complain to me for spoiling the show if I'm right!
 

Spoiler

 

1. Mel will steal Jon's blood as she suspects he has royal blood (she saw it in the flames when Mance was burnt alive), confirming his heritage. Jon's supporters will bury him by the Weirwood by Castle Black. Bran will bring him back to life as a zombie Jon of sorts (like Stoneheart). Jon, freed of his vows, will lead the Wildlings and the Northern Lords (who gather around Sansa, brought to safety by Theon) against Ramsay. Meantime, in pursuing his agenda, The Wall falls to The Others and all the traitors are killed. When told of their grisly deaths, Jon shows no remorse.

 

2. The Septon will resurrect a dead Sandor and give him a mission to right all wrongs done in the past (like what Gregor did to his face) and he will wander in a monk's garb doing good deeds (including protecting the kind family who he stole from). He will have a new companion as a foil - Gendry. He meets an annoying female Questing Knight and her loyal squire but she doesn't recognise him with his cowl over his head (this will be at the Inn at the Crossroads with Hot Pie). He meets The Brotherhood who have turned to banditry and defeats Beric (Gendry hates them for giving him to Mel). He finally ends up in King's Landing...

 

3. Cersei will get her revenge against The High Sparrow via some convoluted plotting with Olenna who wants Loras and Margaery freed. There will be a trial by combat scene between the Clegane brothers who will kill each other. Cersei will blame Myrcella's death on Jaime, pushing her younger twin brother away from her (to deal with Blackfish at Riverrun as per the books) and along his path to fufilling her Maggy Prophecy that has further fuelled her hatred of Tyrion. Cersei first seduces then kills Gendry (who reminds her of a young virile Robert).

 

4. We will get the big reveal that Tyrion has an affinity with Viserion in Mereen's Dragonpit (whoever could be Rhaeghal's rider?) as Tyrion is there with them, bringing up the issue of why Tywin always hated him (and parallels between Lyanna Stark and Joanna Lannister both dying in childbirth with Targ bloodline children). Tyrion's mastery of Viserion will help Dany defeat the Sons of the Harpy. Daario will betray Dany (perhaps he is the leader of the Harpies) but is slain by Jorah and Grey Worm together (Missandei discovers his betrayal and her peril will motivate Worm). Dany, her dragons and achievements in Slavers Bay will unite the Dothraki khalesars in a grand meeting at Vaes Dothrak who agree to cross the sea to Westeros with her...

 

5. Other stuff: Ser Davos will help to rally the North against Ramsay, perhaps with help from Saladhor Saan. Euron explicitly kills Balon then wins the Kingsmoot by trickery, Asha sacks Highgarden and kills Mace, Tristan takes on the Quentyn role. Sam introduces Gilly to the horrified Tarly family then starts studying at Oldtown, specialising in understanding how to defeat The Others (obsidian etc.). The Iron Bank hires Arya, now a fully trained Faceless Man, to go to King's Landing to teach the Iron Throne a lesson...

 

Well, that's more than enough wild speculation. Let's see how much of my version's nonsense comes true.

 

 

EDIT: I do agree that many of these developments will be manipulated by either Littlefinger or Varys who are the secret protagonists of the major story arc which is like Babylon 5 about Law (Varys) vs Chaos (Littlefinger) with all the others as their pawns.

[OldShrimpEyes]

Stannis is finally revealed to be a six foot praying mantis.

[ingsve]

One thing I'm looking for ward to this season is getting some new Dothraki dialogue. We haven't had any new Dothraki words since season 2 but now that Dany is back in with new Khalasar I expect there to be lots of new dialogue to dissect.

 

For those of you who don't know, I'm one of the people behind the site wiki.dothraki.org where we have gathered all the info about Dothraki and Valyrian that can be found.

[JoeFromCincinnati]

I think we all do. The "blood in the snow" tweet seems to hint at Mel's blood magic and the R+L=J solution as he needs to be royal blood.

SPOILERS potentially is a necessary warning on this thread...

But the really interesting thing is how they are going to manage all the detective work that the fans have now done to the story. Even Tywin's "you are no son of mine" to Tyrion as dying words. It's all a bit too telegraphed who the 3 dragon riders will be, who will fulfill Cersei's prophecied death etc.

I think they will have to deviate hugely from the GRMM story arc that they are privvy to because they need to surprise and prove all these theories wrong.

I also feel that HBO's weekly model may be eclipsed by Netflix's binge-watch model where you can get totally immersed in a storyline without having theories from fans and experts pre-empt big reveals. Though of course weekly is more social for a discussion thread.

If Iain McShane is Septon Ribald (?) who resurrects The Hound, I quite like that priests of 3 religions are able to do this (with Aeron, Mel/Thoros) with Bran as an adept of The Old Gods. It appeals to the D&D clerical spell list stickler in me...

My only other hope is they don't miscast as badly as The Sand Snakes (the entire Dorne script was awful too). Whilst the Ellaria and Snakes farewell to Myrcella was sufficiently vindictive and done well just as the father-daughter topic was broached, the rest of the Dorne scenes made me cringe.

 

 

I think it would be a huge mistake to change the ending or resolution of the story simply because a small division of the fan base researched and found all the clues you (of course in reference to GRRM) have intentionally laid throughout the book series and hence the television series.

 

That is the easiest way to take a very interesting and compelling story and convert it into a boring pile of nonsense thrown together at the last second just to surprise the audience ( just like how, I imagine, the Dorne storyline was thrown together quickly as the deadline was coming up).

 

The fans guessing something correctly is not only good for the writer, but it also makes the fans more invested in the story. If the fans found all the evidence, researched all the prophecies etc and came to the correct conclusion rewarding them with a gold star (by remaining with your original ending that they guessed) will not only make them feel smart for cracking the code, but it will also validate all the work they put into finding the answer.

 

Spoilers incoming:

 

Spoiler

If Tyrion is in fact the 3rd head of the dragon, alongside Jon and Daenerys, changing that at the last second just because someone was able to determine it (cuz, you know...the mad king was kind of obsessed with Tywin's wife. There is definitely precedent there.) would only cheapen the resolution of the story line.

 

And one more thing to keep in mind: for every mega fan that tracks every single word and picture about the books/show/theories, there are probably 10 to 20 fans who just watch the show and enjoy it. So while the risk that a small portion of the fan base already figured out your conclusion is there, the vast majority of the fan base is likely completely unaware of all the theories floating around, and are thereby unaffected by the theories being right. So for those fans, you would only be writing a weaker ending just to prove wrong a fraction of the fan base that wants to be right in the first place.

[Ironswimsuit]

Jon Snow is resurrected in secret and passes himself off as his own twin brother, Ron Snow.

[Serazu]

The Others win in the end. Westeros is overrun and a zombie apocalypse begins. GRRM writes a new saga in a medieval Walking Dead style.

[LoneElfRanger]

Just as Daenerys is about to get run through with an ice spear, The Mad King rouses from his slumber. It was all a dream.

[hanotsri]

I am just glad they're bringing the Greyjoy storyline back into the fold. Even with an eyepatchless Euron and no Victarion. From what I understand, rumors suggest that Yara makes her way to Volantis...so I wonder if she is somehow going to take the place of Victarion's mission in ADWD.

[OldShrimpEyes]

I wonder if we will finally get to see Varys' enormous fishy tail this season.

[FedericoFasullo]

I hope Jon Snow is dead for good. I really hate Kit Harington.

[hanotsri]

I hope Jon Snow is dead for good. I really hate Kit Harington.

 

Why is your profile pic practically Kit Harrington?

[FedericoFasullo]

Emo Ren kinda looks like a nightwatch with a lightsaber. True. Still hating Kit.

 

[Alexfrog]

On the same site, here is an article detailing two mathematicians' neural network calculations of the rank of major characters in the books which I found fascinating - but then I'm a sad mathmo geek beyond redemption.
 

 

The article: "It probably isnt who you think it is"

 

Me:  Reads the article.  Finds out its exactly who I think it is.

 

 

 

The biggest surprise for me was actually that Cersei wasnt as major of a character as I expected.

[Serazu]

I hope Jon Snow is dead for good. I really hate Kit Harington.

 

Wait till you see Silent Hill 2...

 

"Hate" is such a modest word.

[FedericoFasullo]

Wait till you see Silent Hill 2...

 

"Hate" is such a modest word.

 

I saw that.... there's also Sean Bean...

[CptPugwash]

The article: "It probably isnt who you think it is"

 

Me:  Reads the article.  Finds out its exactly who I think it is.

 

 

 

The biggest surprise for me was actually that Cersei wasnt as major of a character as I expected.

+1

I'm thinking who the hell is more important than Tyrion - turns out no-one is.

 

What did surprise me was that his wife was No 3 and not No. 2