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A case for why Chaos is, in my opinion...

Chaos

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#1
thedarkmessiah

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A case for why Chaos is the worst faction overall in the Conquest LCG.

The following is an argument for why Chaos is the worst overall faction in the Conquest LCG as of this article. Note that the following is my opinion and I welcome discussion about it. I know that Chaos has some success, but that doesn't mean they're good straight up.

*Warlords (And sort of units):

Chaos has two very strong warlords. And this is probably one of the main reasons for why Chaos suffers so bad. Hear me out on this. On paper, Zarathur is potentially one of the best warlords in the game.His ability to increase all damage dealt to the opponent's units is extremely powerful. However, I believe that this ability is one of the major reasons that Chaos suffers as a faction. Because of Zarathur's ability, FFG has to consider its implications with each and every Chaos card they make (as well as common Ork and Dark Eldar cards). Because of this, many Chaos cards are far more inefficient than similar cards in other factions. Take into consideration Ravening Psychopath. On it's own, when compared to a similar card like Tactical Squad Cardinis, it is much less powerful. Same stats and cost, but it's ability only deals 1 extra damage and at the cost of the unit damaging itself. However, if a card exactly like TSC were in Chaos, it would be far too powerful by virtue of Zarathur's ability. So the first major point I want to make is that Chaos units and other damaging effects are very weak compared to other factions because of the presence of Zarathur and his ability. Also, I do realize that Ravening Psychopath can deal both its attack damage and its ability damage to the same unit, so it and TSC are not perfect comparisons, but they're close.

Ku'Gath is a very strong warlord as well, though he suffers some from the "Not Being Zarathur" syndrome. That is, he uses the same cards that Zarathur does, but they are inherently a lot worse because they are tailored with Zarathur's ability in mind. Many cards such as the aforementioned Ravening Psychopath, Rotten Plaguebearers, and many other cards are unused in Ku'Gath because, quite frankly, they are bad with him. Now, of course, warlords are going to have different preferences, but I think many of us can agree that there are certain units within each faction that get an extreme amount of use by all warlords in that faction (Snakebite Thug, Warlock Destructor, Indominable, Klaivex, etc). Within Chaos, there aren't a lot of units or cards like that. Of course, there are some like Chaos Fanatics, Splintered Path Acolyte, Warpstorm, etc. But that is more out of necessity than usefulness more often than not.

Finally, we have Ba'ar Zul, which is almost globally considered to be the worst warlord in the game. And I agree. He has great signature cards, but his ability to so weird and unusual, and he has gotten literally zero support. It's not really clear what cards go well with him over someone like Ku'Gath, so most people just play Ku'Gath instead. So Chaos, right now anyway, essentially has two warlords to choose from.

*Command:

Chaos has some of the worst command in the game. I would hesitate to say their command is worse than Orks, but it is very close. The only good "command" unit available to Chaos within its own Faction is Chaos Fanatics. Chaos' most commonly taken ally, Orks, also have very little to offer for good command units. DE, on the other hand, can help with command a good deal through Sslyth and Incubi, but Chaos rarely takes DE allies over Orks due to the "God Tier" card Ammo Depot and more solid units like Snakebite Thug, Goff Brawlers, and so on. In a game where a strong command game is very important, I often find when I play as Chaos that the faction has a very difficult time keeping up. Cards like Slaanesh's Temptation are good to help with that, but you only have 3 copies of that card in a deck compared to the opponent's several cheap, good command cards. Chaos would only need one or two solid command units to help fix this problem. I was excited with Seer of Deceit, but after a lot of playtesting it's just not there. Add in that Zarthur's ability is so good that he often cannot afford to command snipe, and the fact that Ba'ar Zul has 0 attack while Hale, and you have only 1 warlord left that can command snipe, and that's Ku'Gath.

*1-drops:

Most factions have a very good selection of 1 drops (and, to some extent, 0 drops). 1 drops are very important in Conquest because they allow you to use all 7 of your resources a lot easier. They are also good deploy stalls and allow you to save the bulk of your resources for larger, more impactful plays later in the deploy phase. They are also generally good economy units. Chaos does not have this luxury. Chaos does not have ANY units that they can play for 0 unless you're counting Promise of Glory, which isn't an awful option (More on that card specifically later), but doesn't help command or combat really. As for one drop units, they have 2 (and neither of them are very stellar): Heretek Inventor, and Splintered Path Acolyte. Heretek Inventor is theoretically a good deal, but more often than not it sits on a single-resource planet, or planet 5, and basically doesn't really pull its weight. Late game, the card is almost completely useless because it can't generally take part in key battles, and late game you're often either winning command or losing it already. Multiples of this card become even less useful because the opponent typically ends up piling them all on the same planet, making them even more useless. Finally, a cunning player will put them on a planet they don't need to win, where they will sit and rot. Then you have Splintered Path Acolyte. This card is one of those cards that lots of other people like and I completely hate. First of all, its a terrible bargain stat-wise. 1 for a 1/1/1 is not good. In addition, it's ability requires you sacrifice it to get 2 resources that can ONLY be used to summon daemons. Since every daemon other than the two signatures ones and the single Rotting Plaguebearers are elites, this guy forces elites to be of any REAL use. Additionally, if you don't have a daemon in hand, or not enough resource to play said daemon this turn, this card more often than not gets sniped. It's not a combat unit, and it's not a good command unit, so its only real function is daemon summoning, and technically, it's very bad at that too.

When I consider a card that is solely used for its ability, I assume that its effect costs about 1.5 resources, since I value cards at 1.5 resources. Some people value cards at 2 resources, but I am optimistic and set it at 1.5. So going back to SPA. It's not a command or combat unit, so it's primary function is its ability. So when you consider that fact, you're paying 2.5 resources (its cost plus the cost of a card in your deck/hand) to get 2 resources that can only be spent on daemons. This is a terrible trade. At least with promise of glory, you're paying 1.5 resources for 2. So anyway, that being said, SPA is not good at any of the 3 things a unit can be good at. Also, as a smaller note, since it's a Tzeentch card, it very often interferes with Shrine of Warpflame.

*Garbage Cards:

Every faction has garbage cards. Whether they are cards that will forever be bad, or cards that are bad but can become good. However, I personally feel that Chaos has a disproportionate amount of garbage cards. Cards that just literally never see play at all (competitively). Turbulent Rift, Blight Grenades, Killing Field, Alpha Legion Infiltrator, Runic Armour, Doom Siren (!), Ecstatic Seizures, Umbral Preacher, Death Guard Infantry, Seer of Deceit, Virulent Plague Squad, Possessed, and Ancient Keeper of Secrets are all cards that, in my opinion, currently, are unplayable. That is a staggering amount of completely useless cards.
 

* 3-drops:

 

Chaos has almost no playable 3 drops. The only one that is actually playable is Khorne Berserker, and it's quickly getting less and less useful with the creep of the game. Noise Marine Zealots are alright-ish in Zarathur, but otherwise lackluster.

 

*Elite Focus and Daemon Economy:

Chaos is a faction with an interesting mechanic: you can sacrifice cultist tokens to reduce the cost of daemons. In theory, this is very cool and a neat mechanic (and fluffy too). However, in practice, it's just not very good. Why is it not good? Well there are 3 parts to it. Part one is that, quite frankly, there isn't enough cultist token generation. There are a total of 3 cards that generate cultists tokens. Of those cards, only one of them is really usable in my opinion. The cards are Promise of Glory (usable), Xavaes Split-Tongue (almost usable, but hard to get to work most of the time), and Throne of Vaneglory (not usable yet, and probably never will be). Splintered Path Acolyte can be thrown in here as well, but again, you're basically losing efficiency here to get that 1 extra daemon resource so I am not a huge fan. In my decks with a solid number of daemons, I run SPA, but it's because I basically have to, not because I want to.

The second part is that most of the Chaos elites aren't all that great if played without cultist economy. GPB is a great card... when it doesn't cost 5. GPB works alright when you have to play it for 5, but there are honestly better options for less. Warpstorm is a great example. For 3 cost, you're dealing 3 to every enemy at a planet (or two to HQ). Sure, you lose the 1/3/5 body, but it's a lot more cost effective. GPB is only a "great" deal when it costs less than 5. Most of the other Chaos elites are nothing to write home about either. Frenzied Bloodthirster is effectively unplayable other than with the battle effect that lets you put him into play for free. Same with the Heldrake. Keeper of Secrets isn't good because it has poor stats for its cost, and there aren't enough cultists to really keep it going for long. Soul Grinders are okay, but suffer from Chaos' bad command structure. Possessed are scary, but way too easy to deal with, especially in the current meta. The Bloodletters are good enough to run sometimes, but again, they aren't worth their full cost in my opinion and suffer from being shut down too easily just like Possessed. Flesh Hounds suffer from low impact compared to their cost (compare to the Leman Russ Conquorer, which people trash hard) and not enough cultist sac support. Finally, Prodigal Sons Disciple is actually quite great for its cost, but it's not a daemon, so most people shy away from it because you have to always pay full price.

Finally, the third problem here is that elites generally are not as impactful as several other cheaper cards. I know there is starting to be more elite support, and this fact may change my opinion in the coming cycle, but currently there just isn't enough reason to run elites over cheaper units (In chaos anyway) other than GPB. It's starting to get there though. Cards like STC Fragment, Backlash (sort of), Sowing Chaos, Shadowfield, and so on are forcing decks to be a little bit heavier. But currently elites are basically inherently weaker than non-elites.

*Almost No Tricks:

Again, people will probably disagree with me here a lot, but compared to most other factions, chaos is very predictable. There aren't a lot of tricks that Chaos has (that are good). Mostly just Warpstorm and Infernal Gateway. Berzerker Warriors sort of kind of helped, but not really. Tzeentch's Firestorm can be a trick in a pinch, but its very inefficient. EDIT: A lot of people have quoted things here like Slaanesh's Temptation and Sowing Chaos. ST is not a trick. You usually play it as your first card in the turn, and the opponent has to play around it. That's like saying that playing a BAV is a trick. It's not. The opponent has to deal with it just like Slaanesh. Sowing is sort of a trick, but again, it's a deploy action. A cunning player will play around that card. It's not really a trick because when it is played, the combat math changes and the opponent can respond (by playing more units, changing where they send their warlord, etc).

*And finally, No Shields:

Chaos just got a new 2-shield card. So that helps a lot. Chaos only has 4 2-shield cards. Of those 2 shield cards, one of them is literally completely useless (Doom Siren). Tzeentch's Firestorm is decent. Warp Rift is exciting, but it remains to be seen how useful it is. And finally, Slaanesh's Temptation is so important to helping Chaos not lose the economy war that is is almost never played as a two-shield unless times are dire.

*In summary:

Chaos is the WORST DESIGNED faction in my opinion. It's not unplayable. Ku'Gath Smasha decks are running rampant now. But in general, it's weaker than every other faction. Zarathur makes them have to deal with inefficient units. But the faction as a whole is very weak and is only playable because it is carried by two very powerful warlords. They have poor command and almost no good 0-, 1-, or 3-drops. They have a plethora of garbage / unplayable cards. Their focus on daemon economy and elites is, for now, very weak in the current meta and largely unsupported. They have a dirge of 2 shield cards, and they just don't have that many tricks.

*Ways they can fix these issues:

Unfortunately, they cannot fix Zarathur being in the game (unless they FAQ him, but they won't). What they can do is really brain storm on cards that will be good with him but still usable with other warlords. They can also make cards that will specifically benefit Ba'ar Zul to make him more playable. Cards that attach to Khorne units (meaning they could attach to the warlord to make him better), cards that work when your warlord is bloodied or damaged, and other similar cards would potentially benefit him over other warlords.

Command could be fixed with one, or two, really solid command cards.

Chaos needs a bigger pool of 1 drops. They're getting the Nurgling, but I am not sure it's really going to help Chaos overall.

They can make a lot of the garbage cards more playable by releasing cards that synergize with them. For example, they can make a chaos unit with Area Effect to make Doom Siren playable (again, we're getting the Noise Marine, but its actually terrible with Doom Siren). The Nurglings will make Blight grenades better. Etc.

Fixing the Daemon Economy can be done with 2 simple changes: Add more cultist generation that is usable (No more Vaneglory) and give Chaos some daemons that aren't elites. Also, any buffs to elites will generally help here.

And of course, add a couple more 2 shield cards (that are playable, stupid Doom Siren).

 

Feel free to discuss. I am sure that people will argue this post quite a bit. But I have played Chaos since the game was released, and I just see them getting less in every cycle than nearly every other faction. I am an avid Chaos fan, and I want Chaos to be good. I am just not sure that it really is right now. Here's hoping for more support in the Death World Cycle.


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#2
Goboxel

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Sadly, Chaos is not top tier, and definitely will need some help in the new cycle. We can already see some good cards (for example new 2-shielder). But i just can't agree with you that chaos is the weakest faction. Like man, we have nids and orks, i would take my Kugath deck over them any day and i almost never lose against them as well. Not sure about tau, but i can't say they are better then chaos.

You listed a lot of things chaos is bad at. But chaos has something, that other factions lack: The best elite support in the game as well as super efficient elites. And currently we are seeing more and more cards saying "non-elite unit" in the effect description as well as a lot of punishment for 0,1 and 2 cost units. I would say elite route will be a way to go for chaos in a new cycle (and I'm sure new Slaanesh warlord will help with economy generating cultists in some way).



#3
Halfling2099

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I agree that Zara ruined future chaos cards but I don't think they are the worst faction, I think it's Tau. I'm hoping the next big box is the Slaanesh warlord everyone wants it could be tied to a Dark Eldar warlord as well.

 

I do wish for a better 1 hammer 1 cost unit, and a 2 or 3 cost daemon unit.



#4
Jreilly89

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I have to agree with a lot of your points. I think namely, what's really hurting them is:

 

-Zarathur. He's just so strong and his ability can proc off any good Chaos cards. Like you said, anything meant for Ba'arzul or Ku'gath immediately becomes better in a Zarathur deck. They've almost pidgeon holed themselves by making him so strong.

 

-Daemons and Cultist Economy: More Cultist generating options. Something like Forward Barracks or a Warlord who is all about generating Cultists and playing Daemons would be amazing. It would make guys like Possessed be awesome because it's a 9/4 you could plop in for potentially 2 resources. Make this Warlord a Word Bearer and you've even got the lore element covered.

 

In summary, I think Chaos is one of the worst factions not because they're weak, but because there is really only one way to play competitive with them, and that's Zarathur with Ork allies for Snakebite Thug, Ammo Depot, etc.



#5
kuni667

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Finally, we have Ba'ar Zul, which is almost globally considered to be the worst warlord in the game. And I agree. He has great signature cards, but his ability to so weird and unusual, and he has gotten literally zero support. It's not really clear what cards go well with him over someone like Ku'Gath, so most people just play Ku'Gath instead. So Chaos, right now anyway, essentially has two warlords to choose from.

 

I know I skipped ahead of your post but I really just wanted to comment on this specifically.

 

The "Community" said the same thing about Mr. Zog from the first day he was spoiled to several months after he was released until certain people found success with him and the train just followed. 


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#6
DrThodt

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Ok, a couple things: I do agree with you on a lot of points. I am also a huge Chaos fan, and I will continue to play Chaos regardless of whether it's "top tier." The main things I disagree with you on are: Splintered Path Acolyte. While you are indeed right in that it's a bad card when just played for the one resource gain, the thing that makes it good is that it is a one for one. You can play it out and contest or win command, and then sac it when you need it. Would it be better if it was just another Rogue Trader? Maybe, but it's not. Also, it has value as a deploy stall. Many times I have played a SPA to have it capped by a two for two, after which I sac it and play a demon. This can be great for luring units onto the board to set up a Sowing Chaos. The second point is, yes, everything's better in Zarathur, but, with the new elite support, I believe Ku'gath has a competitive elites deck. He is a much better warlord for this kind of build, and a lot of the weaknesses of that kind of build have been shored up with STC and Backlash. Sure, it would be nice to have more cultist generation, and more command units, but Chaos does have some good stuff going for it. Temptation is a ridiculously good card, they have probably the best elites in the game, they have the easiest time getting them on the board. I will be looking forward to Death World and hope that Ku'gath and Ba'ar Zul will have cards just for them, but in the meantime, I'll be playing the s!@$ out of STC.


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#7
thedarkmessiah

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I think I want to clarify a major point. After some consideration I do not think chaos is the weakest faction, but the way they were made is terrible.


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#8
rzarectz

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Chaos, like the top tier Dark Eldar and Eldar factions, have access to Archon's Terror, and a formidable set of units in Slyth Mercenaries, Incubus Warriors, and Bloodied Reavers. They now also have access to the very powerful Gut and Pillage, which syncs very well with their higher cost units, some of the best in the game. IMO Zarathar and even more so Kugath, are just under top tier. So close that a players personal play-style could shift them into top tier for them personally.



#9
Asklepios

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Why chaos is in fact very good:

 

1) Alliances.

 

Access to the Ork alliance gives access to efficient low cost combat units, alternative economy from Ammo Depot.

Access to the DE alliance gives access to efficient low cost command units, and some excellent events.

 

You can't assess a faction without looking at its alliances. Take Eldar, for example. Sure, some warlords can operate almost entirely without faction allies, but for most warlords, that alliance context is all important.

 

2) Swarm control.

 

The best in the game, in Plaguebeast and Warpstorm.

 

3) Messing with the Deploy Phase and the pace of the game

 

Warp Rift and Slaanesh's Temptation can totally define the tempo of the game. Happily, they're also 2-shielders.


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#10
Asklepios

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doublepost, (I blame the warp)


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#11
Skaak

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Chaos, like the top tier Dark Eldar and Eldar factions, have access to Archon's Terror, and a formidable set of units in Slyth Mercenaries, Incubus Warriors, and Bloodied Reavers. They now also have access to the very powerful Gut and Pillage, which syncs very well with their higher cost units, some of the best in the game. IMO Zarathar and even more so Kugath, are just under top tier. So close that a players personal play-style could shift them into top tier for them personally.

 

Personally, I've never gone with the "Orks-only" group-think (but I also prefer playing more Elite-heavy decks than swarmy decks). Dark Eldar synergizes with Chaos really nicely (particularly Zarathur; and I completely agree that he really shouldn't have been the core set Chaos warlord because he exerts undo influence over the faction); aside from excellent events and command units, DE also provides some interesting options (Zarathur with a ranged splash or Zarathur with an area effect splash are both decks that I love playing; watching it click when my opponent realizes I just dropped a 2-cost unit with effective Area Effect 2 at a planet where I have guaranteed initiative is a beautiful thing).

 

Even with the a DE area effect splash I've never been able to fit Doom Siren in. Completely sympathize with the hate on that one.  :D



#12
Atrus

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Seems that someone is being raped  :lol:

 

Chaos is indeed very good. Great economy, best access to elites, nice events, Slaanesh temptation, good allied cards, awesome warlords...


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#13
Jamesy

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Seems that someone is being raped :lol:


I think it's more a case of someone needing to "git gud" 😂
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#14
thedarkmessiah

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For the record, I am not "getting raped", and I don't need to get "get gud". Comments like that really don't help the discussion at all. I win plenty of games with Zarathur and Ku'Gath. My primary reason for writing this article was to point out that the faction, as a whole, is extremely weak. The two aforementioned warlords essentially carry Chaos as a faction. It is this very reason that makes Ba'ar Zul almost unplayable: because he, as a warlord, is not nearly as strong as Zarathur and Ku'Gath, and the rest of the Chaos faction is all hindered by the presence of Zarathur's ability. If you read my post, I never said they are unplayable or don't win, or anything along those lines. I just think they are really poorly designed, have a lot of really big parts missing in what they need to reach tier 1, and I think that the developers aren't supporting a key aspect of Chaos: cultist generation. I really hope that they do that eventually. Chaos wins. I win with them all the time. But they are extremely inconsistent.

As for Chaos having great economy, I cannot possibly disagree with that statement more than I already have. They literally have no special economy units other than the Seer, which is widely considered to be a weak card (and I agree overall. Usable, but weak). Almost all of Chaos' "economy" comes with the Promise of Glory card and, while 2 "free" resources are good, it's not a super powerful card. It's basically a bio-mass sacrifice that lets you discard a single card (itself) for 2 resources that can ONLY be used on daemons. Again, if FFG would gives us more daemons, especially ones that are not all elites, this card would be better in my eyes (No, the new 1 drop Nurgling doesn't change anything for me about this card).


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#15
LordVampire

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That's still 1 more card than most factions have access to and then there's SPA, Xavaes and Throne of Vainglory like you mention in the OP, plus they can either get the Death Skull Flayer or Skrap Nabba and can use Master Warpsmith. There is not a single faction that can generate more reduction than Chaos. Of course reduction on just the Daemon units isn't nearly as good as getting resources to spend on whatever you like, but still I can't agree with you on this point (I do on a lot of other points).

#16
Jamesy

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I can understand where the point of Zarathur holding the faction back is coming from. However, I see that as being a problem with the design team rather than the Warlord himself. It doesn't matter what units get released for Zarathur to pump the damage of, he's always going to be a squishy glass cannon. As long as they don't release an Indomitable clone for Chaos then the High Sorcer's frailty serves as an excellent balancing factor.

Another point of yours I took exception to was how all of Chaos' combat tricks are really obvious. Newsflash, this is true of every faction in the game with the exception of Eldar, who have a few more in-faction options when it comes to events. It's a fair point but it's one that should be levelled at the game as a whole rather than a specific faction.

Finally, the whole Chaos sucks at command was nonsense too. Chaos have two playable one drops, which I know you're not a fan of but I rate them higher than most other one costed units in the cardpool at the moment. They also have an in-faction 2:2, which puts them above Space Marine and Ork decks, as well as no limited clash so they can run Promotion without fear.

#17
thedarkmessiah

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Another point of yours I took exception to was how all of Chaos' combat tricks are really obvious. Newsflash, this is true of every faction in the game with the exception of Eldar, who have a few more in-faction options when it comes to events. It's a fair point but it's one that should be levelled at the game as a whole rather than a specific faction.

Totally disagree with this point. SMs have DPA, Indomitable, and Crushing Blow, all of which you can try to play around but when they actually hit is never a certainty. DE have Klaivex and Archon's. AM has surpressive fire, bolster the defense, Emperor's warrant, and so on. These are all "tricks" that aren't always obvious.



#18
Jamesy

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Totally disagree with this point. SMs have DPA, Indomitable, and Crushing Blow, all of which you can try to play around but when they actually hit is never a certainty. DE have Klaivex and Archon's. AM has surpressive fire, bolster the defense, Emperor's warrant, and so on. These are all "tricks" that aren't always obvious.


Just like you never know when Infernal Gateway, Nurgling Bomb, Tzeentch's Firestorm or Warpstorm are going to hit the table even if you know they're definitely coming.
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#19
DOAisBetter

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If Chaos is so bad I would like to know an easy way to beat those annoying Zara decks that play almost no units and just sit back punishing you for everything. Feels like I always struggle against that deck and I hate it so much.


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#20
Hayati

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I think the ugly duckling right now is Tau.

 

As well as their not being so strong, people are not fond of them either it seems (maybe one leads to the other, although the Tau were never that popular in 40k either), as I hardly ever see them in online games.







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