140 replies to this topic

[Toqtamish]

Are you sure? I don't think bypassing subroutines (by spending clicks) is the same thing as breaking them (using an ice breaker).

I am pretty sure Lukas is sure since he is the games lead developer.

Also using clicks on HB Ice is not bypassing subroutines. It is breaking them.

"The runner may spend [Click] to break any subroutine on Janus 1.0."

[Punky]

I am pretty sure Lukas is sure since he is the games lead developer.

Also using clicks on HB Ice is not bypassing subroutines. It is breaking them.

"The runner may spend [Click] to break any subroutine on Janus 1.0."

Haha I got owned. Awesome.

[Evilgm]

1. Can Scavenge (C&C #34) be used to trash and reinstall the same program, such as a Femme Fatal (to change its target)?
1. Yes, you can trash a program with Scavenge and then reinstall that same program. The program is considered a new copy for the purposes of card effects, like on Femme Fatale.

2. If a program brought out with Test Run is trashed and reinstalled with Scavenge, is it considered a 'new' card or will it go back on top of the deck at the end of the turn?
2. It is considered a new copy of the card and does not return to the top of the Runner's stack.

[kenobob]

Okay, so how does Awakening Center work?

Can you host the Ice on Awakening Center while it's unrezzed so they all look like face down cards in a server, or does Awakening Center have to be rezzed to host the Ice, which would probably then be installed horizontally?

Can you Forged Activation Order Ice on Awakening Center? What would happen, would it get just get trashed because it trigger condition hasn't been met? Would the runner be able to rez it with the 7 credit discount? Or without the discount?

You cannot use Snitch the Ice on Awakening Center, right, because you don't actually approach it, but are "forced to encounter it?

Can you Inside Job over a piece of Ice on Awakening Center if you haven't encountered any Ice before it?

[paradoX]

Awakening Center has to be rezzed and the ice is hosted horizontally.

FAO doesn't work, because Awakening Center ice may only be rezzed if the runner passed all pieces of ice in the server.

Snitch doesn't work.

Inside Job would work.

[kenobob]

Awakening Center has to be rezzed and the ice is hosted horizontally.

FAO doesn't work, because Awakening Center ice may only be rezzed if the runner passed all pieces of ice in the server.

Snitch doesn't work.

Inside Job would work.

Nice, thank you.

[TwistedMetal]

At what point is a runner "about to break a subrutine"?

[Saturnine]

At what point is a runner "about to break a subrutine"?

How many points can there be? I see only one: between triggering the ability and resolving its effect.

[Hattes]

FAO doesn't work, because Awakening Center ice may only be rezzed if the runner passed all pieces of ice in the server.

I see no reason that FAO wouldn't work. The card text: "Choose an unrezzed piece of ice. The Corp must either rez that ice or trash it." Go ahead and choose an unrezzed piece of ice hosted on Awakening Center - the corp cannot rez it, so he must trash it.

[paradoX]

I see no reason that FAO wouldn't work. The card text: "Choose an unrezzed piece of ice. The Corp must either rez that ice or trash it." Go ahead and choose an unrezzed piece of ice hosted on Awakening Center - the corp cannot rez it, so he must trash it.

You're actually right. I just looked it up. Though the corp can rez the ice in Awakening Center, but he can't force the runner to encounter it.
Seems a little wonky to me though.

[Zephyr]

It makes sense logically. There was an order to awaken bioroid early, when it was not ready yet.
So it got destroyed in the process and is completely broken (or corp can spend money to try the impossible and still fail ).

(But i agree this interaction is really weird and should make its way into FAQ soon)

[Rognik]

I second the motion that it needs to FAO on Awakening needs to go into the FAQ ASAP, but I think it's balanced. Do you want to wreck some ICE that might be added last-second on your emergency run, or do you want to wreck that Janus guarding R&D? There's only 3 of them max in a deck, so the runner has to be careful which one he activates.

[SerMisu]

Hello, i'm pretty new to this game, but i've played LCG's before, especially AGOT, which has a very detailed timing structure of the turn.
I know Android has also a timing structure in the CS Rules, but i stil have a few questions about trashing cards:
1. During a Corp turn, can a runner take actions or trash his cards?
2. Trashing a card of your own is considered a paid ability? If not, when cand you trash your own cards?
3. Can a runner trash any type of card?
4. Can a runner trash Wyldside before resolving 'when turn begins' ?

Thanks.

[CommissarFeesh]

1) runner can only use paid abilities during the corp turn, can't take actions that require a click as they have none to spend at this time.

2) you can usually only trash cards as a result of a cars effect or when installing a new program (and in the latter case, you may only trash a program as part of the action, not any card you please). Paid abilities will usually have the format [cost]:[effect] such as on clone chip or deus ex.

3) see above.

4) only if you have another card effect that allows you to do so, such as Aesop's Pawnshop. If two or more card effects would occur simultaneously, the player whose turn it is resolves all their effects first in the order they choose, then the other player does the same.

If you look on the timing charts in the rulebook and FAQ, you can see all the points at which paid abilities can be used marked with a green arrow. This means that either player can trigger paid abilities at these times, subject to the simultaneous effects rule above.

The only other time a runner can trash cards is if they have more cards in hand at the end of their turn than the current hand limit, in which case they must discard only as far as to meet the hand limit. You cannot voluntarily throw cards away (installed or in your grip) without some kind of card effect first.

[ExplodyCat]

On the flipside remember that the same thing applies to corp. You cannot trash your own cards without some effect allowing you to.

When you install a piece of ice on a server, you may trash any ice in that same server you like which will cheapen the install cost of the new ice.

When you install a card into the base of the server (asset/agenda/upgrade) you may trash any other cards already installed there.

[kenobob]

This is more of a comment. It seems you cannot use a Clone Chip or a Self-modifying Code to pull up Deus X to save your ass when accessing a Snare, Junebug, Fetal AI, etc. There is no window for paid abilities once the runner has accessed a card.

This confused me because I assumed Deus X's ability was a paid ability, but it's a "reactional" ability (not sure what the term for it is). Deus X must be installed before you access.

Was anyone else confused or mislead by this? I'd been running with a Clone Chip, a Deus X tucked away in my heap, and a false sense of security for weeks.

[ExplodyCat]

You can install use clonechip/ self modifying when encountering an ice. Then again when you choose to continue the run right before it's declared as successful.

The same applies to corp too. Say you have dedicated response team installed and snares in hand so you're confident but not certain they'll get snared. You have to rez dedicated response team before they access anything and just hope they do hit the snare.

I can easily see how the confusion arises though as I used to be uncertain also. It just appears that those cards happen at instant speed and so at any time.

[Hraklea]

This is more of a comment. It seems you cannot use a Clone Chip or a Self-modifying Code to pull up Deus X to save your ass when accessing a Snare, Junebug, Fetal AI, etc. There is no window for paid abilities once the runner has accessed a card. [...] Was anyone else confused or mislead by this? I'd been running with a Clone Chip, a Deus X tucked away in my heap, and a false sense of security for weeks.

You're right, you have to install Deus X before accessing cards, but it is still a very strong card to have against Jinteki. You basically have 7 Deus X's using 1 of them, 3 Chips and 3 S-M Code, which should be enough to win the game in most cases.

[Zephyr]

This is more of a comment. It seems you cannot use a Clone Chip or a Self-modifying Code to pull up Deus X to save your ass when accessing a Snare, Junebug, Fetal AI, etc. There is no window for paid abilities once the runner has accessed a card.

Yes, its a consequence of paid ability timings.
Last step to trigger payed is 4.3, you acess cards in 4.5
So when you see snare you cant use any payed ability.

This confused me because I assumed Deus X's ability was a paid ability, but it's a "reactional" ability (not sure what the term for it is). Deus X must be installed before you access.

It has nothing to do with Deus X. It is CSM/CloneC timing.

And Snare! But if Snare had to be rezzed in 4.3 it would work I think.

[kenobob]

Yes, its a consequence of paid ability timings.
Last step to trigger payed is 4.3, you acess cards in 4.5
So when you see snare you cant use any payed ability.

It has nothing to do with Deus X. It is CSM/CloneC timing.

And Snare! But if Snare had to be rezzed in 4.3 it would work I think.

The text on Snare! says "If you pay 4 when the runner accesses Snare, . . ." meaning it doesn't have to be rezzed. That makes Deus X's ability some kind of reaction, which I'm not sure is in the timing structure, but the rules address somewhere. They argued about it somewhere in the horrible Daily Casts/Aesop's Pawnshop thread that wouldn't die for the longest time.