140 replies to this topic

[CommissarFeesh]

Deus ex specifically has the word 'prevent' meaning it can be used as an interrupt. It still requires Deus ex to actually be installed though.

[Zephyr]

I was arguing the most in this threat. (and still think timing structure with nested triggers should be properly explained in FAQ)
Deus X vs SMC/CloneC -> Deus X works by the book, not much problem here if you understand timing chart and prevent/cancel effects do not have triggered ability timing (they couldn't have triggered ability timing, it would make no sense at all)

If something Snare! and other traps are a bit fishy as IMO it should state it's ability works even when card is unREZzed explicitly on the card, but its a relatively minor detail that can be added to FAQ at some point if enough ppl have problems with that as long as everyone plays the same way its not a big problem, and it applies to a few cards only, no general system problem

[hmm i think this discussion should be moved to some different thread, as SMC vs Snare! is nothing new IMO, id prefer this thread had more problematic rulings list]

[Rognik]

You're right, you have to install Deus X before accessing cards, but it is still a very strong card to have against Jinteki. You basically have 7 Deus X's using 1 of them, 3 Chips and 3 S-M Code, which should be enough to win the game in most cases.

Your math is a bit off. Self Modifying Code can only pull cards from the stack, not the heap. Only Clone Chip can pull a program out from the heap. So you can use each Deus X once, then again with Clone Chip.

If something Snare! and other traps are a bit fishy as IMO it should state it's ability works even when card is unREZzed explicitly on the card, but its a relatively minor detail that can be added to FAQ at some point if enough ppl have problems with that as long as everyone plays the same way its not a big problem, and it applies to a few cards only, no general system problem

It kind of does already. It says "when accessed", and most runners will not willingly access a trap or ambush. I don't see why it would need to be added that it can be done while unrezed.

[CommissarFeesh]

Technically, there is a window after the runner commits to accessing but before the access happens where you can rez non-ICE cards, so if this was an issue it's easily resolved. However, as Rognik points out, the card states 'When accessed' so it doesn't need to be rezzed for the trigger to be met.

[Hraklea]

Your math is a bit off. Self Modifying Code can only pull cards from the stack, not the heap. Only Clone Chip can pull a program out from the heap. So you can use each Deus X once, then again with Clone Chip.

I meant that you draw it fast because SMC gets it from your stack.

[swornabsent]

Per Lukas Litzsinger:

If you install an Atman on Omni-drive, then you can indeed use Omni-drive's recurring credit when paying to place power counters on Atman. "Whenever X is installed" requires that the card is installed before resolving, and thus the card is also hosted. Hope that helps.

So Cyberfeeder, Cloak, etc can also be used to pump Atman on install.

[ExplodyCat]

Here's one that I don't know and was argued on me recently.


iceless server has jackson howard or other similarly worded card such as thomas has. one which the corp can activate and trash at will. Runner with desperado intiates a run. corp immediately trashes the card. Does the remote server cease to exist instantly knocking the runner out of their run? is the server still active until the runner finishes the run, likely successfully and triggering desperado?

[CommissarFeesh]

That was answered in the FAQ, if a server ceases to exist mid-run, then the run ends and is not considered successful or unsuccessful.

[Jhaelen]

iceless server has jackson howard or other similarly worded card such as thomas has. one which the corp can activate and trash at will. Runner with desperado intiates a run. corp immediately trashes the card. Does the remote server cease to exist instantly knocking the runner out of their run? is the server still active until the runner finishes the run, likely successfully and triggering desperado?

I think you forgot to post the official answer!

[kenobob]

Whoa, so if a runner runs Jackson, and you exile him, that doesn't count as an unsuccessful run for Successful Demonstration purposes?

[ExplodyCat]

ah yea i did, brain fart. It is in the faq too. Servers that cease to exist before step 4.4, the run being declared successful, result in run immediately ending.
Important note that the run at that point is neither considered to have been successful OR unsucessful

[Hraklea]

Whoa, so if a runner runs Jackson, and you exile him, that doesn't count as an unsuccessful run for Successful Demonstration purposes?

That's right, it does not count for Successful Demonstration.

[AsteriskCGY]

That's right, it does not count for Successful Demonstration.

But I guess it also doesn't count as a success for Desperado either.

[paradoX]

But I guess it also doesn't count as a success for Desperado either.

Yes, though I think it's actually even more important for Dirty Laundry. That's actually a pretty big tempo swing.

[CommissarFeesh]

Heh, that could be fun actually as corp. Destroying a server mid-run when the runner has desperado and is using dirty laundry at the same time. Very strong if timed right.

[frybender]

I don't have an official email but I did hear Lucas rule on this during the plugged-in tour so hopefully that counts and I can post it here:

If you remove Jackson Howard from the game but have nothing in the archives to return to R&D you still have to shuffle your deck.

[LucasBarton]

If you remove Jackson Howard from the game but have nothing in the archives to return to R&D you still have to shuffle your deck.

That makes sense, because Jackson Howard says: "Shuffle up to 3 cards from Archives to R&D." That means you can shuffle 0-3 to cards in.

[Zephyr]

Shullfing 0 cards to RnD doesnt make much sense IMO. But there needs to be some ruling on this, glad we got one.

[Flux]

Isn't the shuffling cards from archives into RnD a separate part of Jackson Howard's ability? If you rez him and use the click to draw cards, but have no cards in archives, wouldn't you just put him in archives, not exile him? Am I reading it wrong and you MUST exile him whenever you use his click for two card ability?

[CommissarFeesh]

The two are separate, however you may choose to use the 'exile' ability when he's being run against and you have no ICE on the server, to prevent a 'successful run' trigger (for Desperado, Bank Job, etc.).

If you do so with no ICE on the server, the server ceases to exists and the run ends with no successful or unsuccessful condition being triggered. However, with nothing in Archives, you still shuffle R&D when you do this (so if you've pre-cognitioned or been Indexed, this will get rid of those effects).