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Need multiple Core Sets?


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100 replies to this topic

#21
DarthMonkey

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Given that the number of companion boxes sold would be a lot less than the core box, they would be faced with making a secondary product they knew wouldn't sell as well. Or they could just make the one product and leave people to buy as many as they wanted.

 

I'd rather buy 3 cores with wasted cards than spend a fortune on random packs, hoping to get at least one of each card, never mind a playset.


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#22
Toqtamish

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It's not gouging. It's business. Businesses exist to make money.

#23
Tragic

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I think my little tongue in cheek joke was taken a little to seriously from some of the dudes around here. For the record I have no problem with the LCG format, and kinda think it is silly to have a problem with it.. hence the joke in the first place.

 

I probably should have known better that making fun of the horrid threads on BGG would in fact MAKE a horrid thread here.. but I'm just dumb like that I guess : ( 


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#24
Vlad3theImpaler

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I think my little tongue in cheek joke was taken a little to seriously from some of the dudes around here. For the record I have no problem with the LCG format, and kinda think it is silly to have a problem with it.. hence the joke in the first place.
 
I probably should have known better that making fun of the horrid threads on BGG would in fact MAKE a horrid thread here.. but I'm just dumb like that I guess : (


Out of curiosity, how was anyone supposed to tell that was a joke?
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#25
mplain

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Out of curiosity, how was anyone supposed to tell that was a joke?

 

If you visit multiple boards you could see this question popping up on each of them in multiples. :)



#26
Vlad3theImpaler

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If you visit multiple boards you could see this question popping up on each of them in multiples. :)

That's kind of my point.  How were we supposed to tell that this one was a joke, unlike all the other ones that were serious?


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#27
Ironswimsuit

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I think my little tongue in cheek joke was taken a little to seriously from some of the dudes around here. For the record I have no problem with the LCG format, and kinda think it is silly to have a problem with it.. hence the joke in the first place.

 

I probably should have known better that making fun of the horrid threads on BGG would in fact MAKE a horrid thread here.. but I'm just dumb like that I guess : ( 

 

 

If it makes you feel better, at least a few of us got it.



#28
honorsadam

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It's not gouging. It's business. Businesses exist to make money.

 

Sure, but lets look at the LCG model in particular. It requires people to not only buy the base game, but then remain interested in the game to purchase a stream of expansions as you go along. If you give players a sour taste of wasted cards in one LCG, and then try to pull the same trick in the next one, they might just decide its not worth it to even start.

 

Player loyalty has real value. It allows you to finish working with one IP or specific game design and then create a new one and keep the business going, and then have the player base follow you. 

 

Unfortunately as the consumers our communication is typically limited to the binary, We buy it or we don't. But when a thread like this comes up, I like to think that we can discuss options of how everyone could be benefited and enjoy the product more.

 

To be clear, I really do think that the incomplete card sets in the core box are fine. The near automatic or premade decklists that come from those incomplete card sets make for typically balanced play for players first being introduced to the game. It keeps players from making bad deck building choices until they play the game a few times and understand some of the mechanics. 

 

But to then not offer a product to cleanly upgrade a collection to a deckbuilder variant is not supporting an LCG. It says that before you can really enjoy the expansion packs to come you have to double or triple your investment and have large amounts of wasted cardboard. It forces you to spend money, and throw away what you get for it. 


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#29
DarthMonkey

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 It says that before you can really enjoy the expansion packs to come you have to double or triple your investment and have large amounts of wasted cardboard. It forces you to spend money, and throw away what you get for it. 

 

But it doesn't. FFG are not saying you have to buy more to enjoy the game. You can buy one, then just buy packs after that and enjoy the game completely.



#30
honorsadam

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sure if you want a handicap when playing with others. Most of these core sets had strong cards that saw play after the expansion came out and whoever had more copies would do better. 



#31
DarthMonkey

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sure if you want a handicap when playing with others. Most of these core sets had strong cards that saw play after the expansion came out and whoever had more copies would do better. 

 

But that's still your choice.

Wizards don't say you have to spend a fortune on buying boxes of magic boosters, but players choose to do so. FFG don't say you have to spend money on multiple cores, but players choose to do so. A board game comes out, then expansions. You don't have to buy the extras, but players choose to. It's all the same. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

 

But every time a new LCG comes out, the issue of having to buy multiple boxes comes up. Nobody is forcing players, but it's still bounced around as if it's mandatory. It's also bounced around as a new issue every new LCG, when people know how it's done and by now really should be moving on.



#32
phillosmaster

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This is a co op.  I can see this argument for the competitive LCGs, but for this game it's pretty weak.  You can just proxy or borrow cards from your friends if you feel like it's that big a deal.  If you are playing with just your collection then everyone has the same handicap and the difficulty is completely adjustable. 

 

The competitive FFG LCGs have been moving toward 1x for each card thus making each core purchase less of a wasteful product (See AGOT 2.0 or Conquest's core).  So they are moving in the right direction on that front.  That's why I acknowledge that it's a sale tactic, but it's not one I find all that aggravating.


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#33
Skelton

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I don't know about anyone else but I'm glad I only have to buy two and not three.


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#34
DarthMonkey

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I don't know about anyone else but I'm glad I only have to buy two and not three.

 

If I decide to buy multiple, 2 is better than 3. But initially I'll be looking into what can be done with 1 box and using proxies to fill gaps.

 

I'm pretty much expecting to be playing this solo, or using my own cards to make a deck for any interested friend, so I don't see any issues with this approach.


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#35
honorsadam

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This is a co op.  I can see this argument for the competitive LCGs, but for this game it's pretty weak.  You can just proxy or borrow cards from your friends if you feel like it's that big a deal.  If you are playing with just your collection then everyone has the same handicap and the difficulty is completely adjustable. 

First off, I have a personal distaste for proxy. If you are willing to proxy any cards, you are willing to proxy all cards, and so why are we talking about money in the first place. The value of any of the cards is not the "idea" of the card, the idea is given practically for free online. It is for the execution. The thickness of the cardboard, the art licensed and the design work implemented. For those who look at proxy as a valid way of overcoming an incomplete collection in a deckbuilder, we will just always have a difference of opinion. 

 

Sure, this is a co-op game, but that both supports and distorts these arguments.

 

Borrowing cards from your friends works how? Short of completely merging the collections (at which point you paid for two cores, and then split the cost) you will always have to dedicate some amount of time in each game session to separating the collections. It is trading time for money, and some people don't want to spend the time. let alone the idea that you are now limiting yourself to only play with your friends. Playing this game with aquaintences or strangers can be a great experience and can lead into more freindships...but do you  really want to start that relationship by saying "oh can I go through your collection and borrow these powerful cards for my character for today?"

 

The scenario where you only use your incomplete collection and that you just acknowledge the handicap and only use the "easy" modes of the scenario's drastically reduces the value of the game as presented. We all play these games to hone skills and get better at the games we play. We can't get better without increasing the challenge. And lets not also forget that idea that we may play with others who are used to playing the hard mode, but when they play with us, they have to play on easy because we haven't spent money on cardboard just to throw it away. 

 

Again this is based on the idea that certain deck types and strategies based in the core sets are expanded upon in the expansions. If a new deck type is developed in the expansions, then sure, the expansions alone can help you to create the resources you need to tackle the harder difficulty scenarios. But if you keep building decks through the life of the LCG thinking "ugh if only i had 3 copies of X card like everything else, this deck would come together" then you have a problem. 


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#36
forger

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2 copies is the max you have to buy....period for any level of enjoyment. I've read all the reasoning, but simply put all you NEED to buy is 2 copies and to be frank that IS an improvement over FFGs previous LCG model.

 

I've played netrunner competitively with only 2 cores, I've played LotR with one core, I've played warhammer competitively borrowing all my cards from a friend. GoT I bought 3 cores. This game I'll buy 2.

 

To the solo players who want to justify playing multiple decks from a single faction or not being able to optimize play because of limited neutrals, try OCTGN when it comes out. Seriously if you only intend to play this game solo, I would see little reason in buying the game period and would easily settle on a single core to enjoy the aesthetic. I'm sure you'll be able to get the free experience online when the time comes.

 

TL:DR

buy 2 cores to play with 2 or more people, that's probably all you need


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#37
phillosmaster

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I agree Honorsadam.  We'll never agree on this point it seems. 

 

I pretty much have a hard time agreeing with anything you just wrote, but it's all a matter of opinion and not fact so that's the way it goes.


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#38
Ironswimsuit

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The ol "let me complete my play set with a separate product" suggestion... haven't seen that one for a while.


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#39
MightyToenail

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I don't know about anyone else but I'm glad I only have to buy two and not three.

Agreed!

 

 

Now if only I only had to buy one. Particularly with a co-op, it's so stupid to have to buy an extra set of encounter cards.

 

My issue with the multiple core thing is that FFG is pulling the GW card and focusing more on direct profits instead of the indirect ones generated by fanbase loyalty.


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#40
Friman

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First off, I have a personal distaste for proxy. If you are willing to proxy any cards, you are willing to proxy all cards, and so why are we talking about money in the first place.


My thoughts exactly. I feel compelled to buy everything I play, for the same reasons I buy original films and video games. If you don't, more power for you, but for some of us, proxying is not an option.