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Multiple terminal burn effects

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Best Answer mplain , 27 October 2018 - 07:27 AM

FAQ (3.1) "Saving from a Terminal Condition" says:
 
"If a save used on the first removal effect also remedies the ongoing terminal condition, the subsequent removal effect(s) tied to that terminal condition will not resolve."
 
So, one Risen is enough to save from multiple burn effects.

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#1
mplain

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Balon Greyjoy is attacking while Blood of the Dragon is revealed. The opponent plays Dracarys. Is one Risen from the Sea enough to save Balon, or do I need two saves?

 

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Blood of the Dragon has a constant ability that basically says: "If this character's STR is 0, kill it."

 

Dracarys creates a lasting effect that effectively gives the character a similar ability (?).

 

A constant ability is any non-keyword ability whose text contains no boldface precursor defining its ability type. A constant ability becomes active as soon as its card enters play and remains active while that card is in play.
 
- Some constant abilities continuously seek a specific condition (denoted by words such as "during," "if," or "while"). The effects of such abilities are active any time the specified condition is met.

 

So we effectively have two similar constant abilities (?) that continuously seek a specific condition ("If STR is 0").

 

If Balon's STR becomes 0, the effects of both abilities become active - they both attempt to kill Balon, simultaneously.

 

- If two or more constant abilities and/or lasting effects cannot be applied simultaneously, the first player determines the order in which the constant abilities are applied.
 
1) Can two kill effects be applied simultaneously? (I don't see why not)
 
2) If they are applied simultaneously, do they create two separate "Balon would be killed" game occurences / triggering conditions, or only one?
 
- Argument for only one trig.con: If two separate effects simultaneously give Randyll Tarly +1 STR each, his STR will only increase once, and his ability can only be triggered once (?).
 
- Argument for two separate trig.cons: If a character is bypassed by two sleathy attackers, Marya Seaworth can be triggered twice if her first trigger is cancelled (Source).
 
3) If two separate "Balon would be killed" triggering conditions are created, they share the same interrupt window. If Risen from the Sea changes once of them (from "killed" to "saved") and at the same time remedies the original condition that created these two trig.cons ("If STR is 0"), does that automatically negate the second "Balon would be killed" game occurence / triggering condition?
 
4) Should "Kill if STR is 0" be viewed as a single conditional constant ability (that just applies its effect if it's active), or as a complex "triggering condition + effect" structure? (with separate points of initiation and resolution)


#2
mplain

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For the sake of simplicity, lets say two Blood of the Dragon plots are revealed, and a 2 STR greyjoy character would be killed. Is one Risen enough to save him?



#3
Vrgmaister

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1) Can two kill effects be applied simultaneously? (I don't see why not)

 

Wouldn't 2 instances of tears of lys poison apply kill effect at the same time? So if using Risen from the Sea on the first of those two would lets say remove the second poison token, would its kill effect still activate?  



#4
mplain

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Tears of Lys create a delayed effect. If multiple delayed effects would resolve at the same time, they aways resolve in an order determined by the first player, as per the Priority of Simultaneous Resolution (bullet point 1).

 

My question was about constant abilities and lasting effects with kill effects -- this detail was not in the one-line question that you've quoted, but in the context. Priority of Simultaneous Resolution (bullet point 2) says that the first player needs to choose an order for constant effects and lasting effects only if they cannot be applied simultaneously. So that is the essence of that particular question:

 

Can or cannot two kill effects that originate from constant abilities and/or lasting effects be applied simultaneously?



#5
Odrl

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Is there any further word on this? I've been waiting for the answer, because this situation is quite plausible and could easy come up...



#6
mplain

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Nope, not yet, still waiting.

 

I think for now we should play it as, one Risen can save against multiple burn effects.



#7
mplain

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✓  Best Answer

FAQ (3.1) "Saving from a Terminal Condition" says:
 
"If a save used on the first removal effect also remedies the ongoing terminal condition, the subsequent removal effect(s) tied to that terminal condition will not resolve."
 
So, one Risen is enough to save from multiple burn effects.