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What's the timeline?


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8 replies to this topic

#1
estyles

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I know that this forum is more concerned with mechanics than storyline, and I normally feel the same way myself, but something is bugging me about this alternate timeline... Does this game take place in Rokugan before the Scorpion Clan Coup, or at the same time as the original core set (SCC was a "flashback" expansion that happened a few years earlier), in a Rokugan where the Scorpion Clan Coup never happened?  

I mean, this here is the first card released for Bayushi Shoju in the CCG:

pic3717146_md.jpg


And at that time, Shiba Tsukune was not yet champion of the Phoenix.

I'm not even as bothered by Doji Hoturi's ...ahem... transformation (Rokugan is pretty progressive in terms of gender roles, so I shouldn't be surprised that Hoturi could have his whatnots sent into the Void by some surgical shugenja and still be perfectly well accepted at court).  I'm slightly more bothered by the disappearance of Shinjo Yokatsu but the rest of the Unicorn haven't seemed to notice.   (Actually, it seems like maybe he just lost his horse and his name - Utaku Infantry seem to have a reasonable facsimile of his force boosting ability - could it be the alternate-timeline champion in disguise?)
 
But Shoju and Tsukune being champions of their respective clans at the same time is driving me a little nuts...
 
I feel like the only possibility is that this game takes places after the Scorpion Clan Coup should have happened, but for some reason it didn't.  Therefore, Shoju survived, the Akodo were not dissolved, Hantei the 38th stayed on the throne for at least a little bit longer, and Toturi remained champion of the Lion instead of becoming a ronin, starting his own army, and uplifting Toku to the Monkey Clan Champion we (some of us anyway) know and love.  The question is whether the absence of the Coup is the start of the divergence from previous canon or if ground zero of historical changes is further back in time than that - I mean, there were only a couple of years between the Coup and the start of the L5R CCG core set, which doesn't explain the ...ahem...  changes... to Crane and Unicorn clan champions.  Something deeper must be going on...



#2
Lammia

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It's comfortably pre-coup.

 

As for the other questions; the old fluff has gone the way of Star Wars Legends. It inspires the new work, but don't be surprised if it changes things too. If I may use FFG's own words in a not-a-direct-quote-but-close way. It's not a retelling, it's a reimagination.



#3
Killcrazy

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I take it as FFG resetting the setting while making some changes to keep things fresh (and balance the gender representation). 

 

Similar to how movies/TV tends to reimagine classic stories from comics - Marvel Civil War comics vs the movie. I suspect they'll follow the 12 Black Scrolls story and the Return of Fu Leng in broad strokes but add in some surprising twists - probably in year 2. Let people experience the status quo for a while before the **** hits the fan. 

 

I like a lot of the changes with clan personalities and keeping Shoju around. It also avoids some of the one-note characterizations we had from the CCG and early RPG. Modern audiences expect some depth to characters, which some clans sorely needed (Scorpion supporting cast and the Unicorn). We'll see what we get.



#4
HidaHonk

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I really hope they do the clan war again. And I hope the players at worlds come to the right decision. Let the 1000 years of darkness begin. I will play my crabs as corrupt as possible. New gobo, I look at you my boy:)



#5
estyles

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I take it as FFG resetting the setting while making some changes to keep things fresh (and balance the gender representation). 

 

I know that they reset the setting while making some changes, but my question is - is it 1123 and the SCC hasn't happened yet, or is it later and also how much is different in the history leading up to this point?  (I think 1128 was the Second Day of Thunder, so the original core must have been a little earlier than that but still after 1123, right?)

 

And they didn't really balance the gender representation...  Scorpion was led by Bayushi Kachiko in Imperial Edition, the Lion Clan Champion was (female) Matsu Tsuko - they were both changed to males while the Crane and Unicorn were changed to female.  I guess the Phoenix Clan Champion was originally Ujimitsu, although Tsukune existed in the set and became champion after the Day of Thunder (on the other hand, a lot of champions changed after the Day of Thunder).  I guess maybe they wanted Shoju back and Toturi to be a Lion again, so after displacing those female clan leaders, they wanted to bring in some other females to avoid removing all sense of gender balance...  That makes some sense.  But I'm less worried about their reasoning and just wondering where we are relative to the original storyline (distance in time and also distance in changed reality).  

 

I mean, I'm not expecting any concrete answers, just kind of musing about it.  (And if anyone has seen anything clear that this is actually pre-SCC and not Clan Wars era...)

 

Also, I really liked Toturi as a dishonored Ronin.  Felt like he was more of a jerk as a Lion.  Of course, that might just be a natural reaction to Lion yellow...


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#6
phillosmaster

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We are pre clan coup in the timeline, but certain characters have been changed.  Tsukune and Ujimitsu's story have been pushed along.  Hoturi is now Hotaru.  In Crab O-Ushi has a command already, which accelerates her age and plot.  I think these are all suppose to be signs to us that we can take this story in a very different direction.

 

The big clues that it's pre-coup is primarily that no one talks about any of the events from the coup.  Also we've had several scenes at the capital and Hantei XXXVIII is still on the throne.  Shoju and Kachiko are there advising him.  Shoju and Kachiko even discuss what the role should be for the Scorpion clan currently.  Shoju wants the Scorpion to recede into the shadows to give them greater freedom.  He thinks by putting themselves so front and center in the politics of Rokugan they are actually limiting their ability to manipulate factions from the shadows.  Kachiko is operating completely counter to that strategy.  She's been working hard to win power and glory for the Scorpion clan.  She believes the clan should capitalize on what they've built and use their current influence to strengthen the empire.  My impression was Kachiko is totally moving toward the coup and Shoju needed to be convinced that it is in the clan's best interest.

 

I suspect similar things may happen, but in different ways.  I'm excited about that.  I don't want to see just a repeat of the old timeline.  I want to see a new story play out.  I think one of the goals of rebooting the story was to smooth out some of the story decisions that were forced on the story team.  If they were just going to repeat everything again they might as well have continued the story where Ivory edition left off.

 

We may still get ronin Toturi.  He seems pretty unpopular with Tsuko's faction. Maybe they will attempt to seize power from him.

 

ADD:  Something else to consider is the story from Gencon might just have planted the seed for the corruption of the Hantei line, which would give Shoju a valid motivation for the coup.  Also the Crab story planted the seed of Kisada being fed up with the Emperor's inaction to his pleas for aid.  I think it's very likely we'll see something similar happen, but probably in a different way and may have a very different outcome. Also I suspect they'll take their time with it.  No reason to rush through this timeline.  I think this pre-coup leading into the Clan Wars era is a fertile ground for story telling.  This might be why they pushed later characters forward in the timeline like Tsukune and O-Ushi.  It would take too long to get to them otherwise.


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#7
Letux

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Kinda sad about Ujimitsu getting skipped. He was a fun character.
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#8
HidaHonk

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Sry, my bad. I mean SCC not the clan wars. I really would like to have 1000 years of darkness. A undead hotura, a beaten black lion and fu leng on the throne. That would be epic. 



#9
phillosmaster

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We don't know how they plan to use Ofushikai in the new story.  It's possible we'll get plenty of "Obi Wan" Ujimitsu, which might also be a fun way to take that character.