244 replies to this topic

[Hakkor]

The same trick works with Endless Plains. Leave a strong character in the province as bait and lure your opponent there. After sacrificing it, the character goes to the discard pile and can be used with Cavalry Reserves.

[Silme]

The trick seems not working

 

When endless plains resolve, you are pretty sure the character will not go to discard pile.

 

The province is destroyed in reaction just after the attackers are declared than the conflict proceed...

Even if the attacker manage to somehow win the conflict (attacking with two and non defended or bringing someone after), then he can't discard the unicorn character on the province.

 

The learn to play page 13 tell us that only when you won the conflict AND you destroyed the province in resolution of the conflict that the attacker have the option of discarding the card in the province.

 

so with endless plains resolving, he can't whatever happen

Yet this is not a good news for us as the character will be automaticly discarded latter so you will not be able to pay it on the next round... You can still use charge the whole conflict phase nevertheless and that is the good news...

[Atrus]

pag. 3 of the Rules Reference: 

 

When a province is broken, the attacking player has the

option of discarding any dynasty cards in that province. If

this option is taken, the province is refilled facedown

[ellonellanfair]

For all purposes, when a province is broken, it is the attacking player that is considered to have broken the province. Still, the opponent "MAY" choose to discard the dynasty card. An experienced opponent fighting against Unicorn will not discard the dynasty card if opponent has 3 fate available. With 1 fate available, I'll definitely discard it.

 

As Unicorn, I usually discard cavalry chumps I didn't play during the regroup phase. This fuels Cavalry Reserves later on and allows me to dig for juicier characters (Ide Trader, Giver of Gifts etc.)

[GasPoweredStick]

So here is my current list, based around primarily Charge, FGG and Cav Rev. I've decided to double down on cavarly units, getting rid of Ide Trader and Giver of Gifts.

 

Deck Created With CardGameDB.com Legend of the Five Rings Deckbuilder Stronghold:

1x Golden Plains Outpost (Core Set)

Role: 1x Keeper of Fire (Core Set)

Province:

1x Ancestral Lands (Core Set)

1x Endless Plains (Core Set)

1x Manicured Garden (Core Set)

1x Meditations on the Tao (Core Set)

1x Shameful Display (Core Set)

 

Character [Dynasty]: (39)

3x Aggressive Moto (Core Set)

3x Border Rider (Core Set)

3x Keeper Initiate (Core Set)

3x Meishōdō Wielder (Core Set)

3x Moto Horde (Core Set)

3x Moto Youth (Core Set)

3x Shinjo Altansarnai (Core Set)

3x Shinjo Outrider (Core Set)

3x Shinjo Tatsuo (Core Set)

3x Utaku Infantry (Core Set)

3x Utaku Yumino (Core Set)

3x Warrior Poet (Core Set)

 

Character [Conflict]: (3/10)

3x Iuchi Wayfinder (Core Set)

 

Attachment: (5)

2x Born in War (Core Set)

3x Spyglass (Core Set)

 

Event: (32)

2x Assassination (Core Set)

3x Banzai! (Core Set)

3x Captive Audience (Core Set)

2x Cavalry Reserves (Core Set)

3x Charge! (Core Set)

3x Court Games (Core Set)

2x Fallen in Battle (Core Set)

3x For Greater Glory (Core Set)

3x I Am Ready (Core Set)

3x Ready for Battle (Core Set)

2x Rout (Core Set)

3x Way of the Unicorn (Core Set)

 

Holding: (4)

2x Favorable Ground (Core Set)

2x Imperial Storehouse (Core Set)

[ellonellanfair]

Getting rid of Ide Trader is like getting rid of LPB in Lion. He is the powerhouse of Unicorn. He is the reason why Unicorn has sustainable economy (No other faction can gain up to 4 fate/cards from a single card). Because of Ide Trader with Favored Mount, you can read Golden Plains Outpost as: "Bow this SH -- Gain 1 fate/card". That statement alone puts Golden Plains Outpost in the top tier. Consider bringing him back in.

 

Giver of Gifts, on the other hand, extends the shelf life of Spyglasses and creates favorable conflict situations for Unicorn. Too good to let go.

 

We have similar province setup. Agree that Manicured Garden is way better than Fertile Fields because much of Unicorn tricks require 1 fate.

 

Stronghold:  

1x Golden Plains Outpost (Core Set #7)

 

Role:  

1x Keeper of Fire (Core Set #216A)

 

Province: (5)  

Air (1/1) Earth (1/1) Fire (1/1) Void (1/1) Water (1/1)  

1x Ancestral Lands (Core Set #15)

1x Endless Plains (Core Set #14)

1x Manicured Garden (Core Set #19)

1x Meditations on the Tao (Core Set #20)

1x Shameful Display (Core Set #24)

 

Character [Dynasty]: (41)  

2x Aggressive Moto (Core Set #111)

3x Border Rider (Core Set #112)

3x Giver of Gifts (Core Set #115)

3x Ide Trader (Core Set #116)

3x Keeper Initiate (Core Set #124)

3x Moto Horde (Core Set #119)

3x Moto Youth (Core Set #109)

3x Shinjo Altansarnai (Core Set #121)

3x Shinjo Outrider (Core Set #114)

3x Shinjo Tatsuo (Core Set #120)

3x Utaku Infantry (Core Set #110)

3x Utaku Yumino (Core Set #118)

3x Warrior Poet (Core Set #117)

 

Character [Conflict]: (3/10)  

3x Iuchi Wayfinder (Core Set #190)

 

 

Attachment: (12)  

3x Favored Mount (Core Set #192)

3x Fine Katana (Core Set #200)

3x Ornate Fan (Core Set #201)

3x Spyglass (Core Set #193)

 

Event: (25)  

3x Assassination (Core Set #203)

3x Banzai! (Core Set #204)

3x Captive Audience (Core Set #196)

2x Cavalry Reserves (Core Set #199)

3x Charge! (Core Set #210)

3x Court Games (Core Set #206)

3x For Greater Glory (Core Set #168)

2x I Am Ready (Core Set #197)

3x Ready for Battle (Core Set #165)

 

Holding: (2)  

2x Favorable Ground (Core Set #128)

[GasPoweredStick]

My issue is that with Ide trader, I've had too many games where I have him and no warhrose, or warhorse and no him. Not to mention attatchment hate neuters him. Cutting him means I'm more consistently hitting my other combo cards. As you may have notices, I dont run many attachments, so giver of gifts doesnt doa huge amount for - most of the time she's a blank 2/3 for 3. These decision have also lowered my unit cost curve, allowing me to broaden my field, which imo is the best way to get value out of the stronghold.

[ellonellanfair]

It's not just Favored Mount that combos with him. There's Shinjo Tatsuo, Favorable Ground, Shinjo Outrider, or simply push him in the MIL conflict and use Golden Plains Outpost (that is the worst case without the other 3 mentioned previously). I wouldn't play him round 1 though. He's a round 2 to 3 character wherein you've already drawn 10 to 15 cards maybe more with Spyglasses. I bid 5 always in Unicorn as long as I can. Them spending attachment hate on favored mount instead of Spyglasses is the best scenario because Favored Mount isn't the only card that turns him on.

[GasPoweredStick]

I see your point, he does turn excess move effects into value. My problem isn't that he's a bad card, but rather that in my deck he doesn't really add much, he just slows down my engine. Ealy game I'm looking to put down some pressure with strong cheap drops, and mid to late game I'm trying to get a more lpng term value out of cards like FGG, charge and Cav Rev. In both of thses cases, getting him is less useful to me than a cavalry unit.

[Silme]

I agree that Ide trader can be a pillar to our powerlevel given us free fate for excess moves.

I agree that favored mount is a good card.

 

Yet i often play unicorn without any ide trader at all and sometimes without any favored mount...

 

As gaspoweredstick noted, ide trader is a very bad card on his own (aka without his ability) who often don't hit play when you see warrior poet or yumino especially against blitz decks (try to make a viable showing against a dragon blitz where your first peep is ide trader ).

ide trader is never entered against crab too for example.

 

 

I do not say that he is not worthy of entering decks, not at all, for months he helped me win midgame or lategame games. Yet He is far less a pillar to our power than gift giver it seems to me now... Regarding my fast environnement.

[ellonellanfair]

You want all the alternative economy in Unicorn. What do you do against low bidding factions? You can't bid 5 long enough. Having Ide Trader with favored mount poses the question to the opponent, "Do I remove the spyglasses or the favored mount?" As I've said, he doesn't even need the favored mount but becomes an economic monster with it. Against crab, your initial flop is vital, and having Iuchi Wayfinder during conflicts helps to protect Ide Trader. He's a POL threat against Crab as well. His stats are not optimal for his cost indeed but after the first trigger, that point is already gone. From then on it's profit. Since I'm moving him a lot, he's the best bearer of Spyglasses as well.

 

In my games, he's always worth the extra two fate, but I digress if people are having bad experiences with him. Can Unicorn be outblitzed given we have one of the lowest cost curves?

[GasPoweredStick]

Lion have a lower curve, and better stats for the same, if not cheaper, price.the main advantage we have against lion is that many of their strongest abilities are used when attacking - if we keep them on the back foot, with way of the unicorn, we can outrace them, and not let them trigger thei strongest abilities. Additionally, they have nothing to stop out Cav Rev + FGG combo, nor do they have anything dsimilarly efficient in fate.

[ellonellanfair]

How do you fight Lion given that he will bid 1 on you throughout the game? He can pump out more units than you do due to staging ground. When you're down in honor, suddenly those extra cards you drew that costs honor can't be used (Assassinate, Captive Audience and Banzai to an extent) I agree, CavRev+FGG is crucial in that matchup sometime in the mid to late game. Honored generals plus a few chumps could already outpower our offense, not to mention the crazy WotL. They even have Vengeful Oathkeepers for the counterattack. Meanwhile, what's their response to Ide Trader? What's their response to the powerful economy of Unicorn (Spyglasses and Ide)? Once these cards are in place, I'll start bidding 1 for days and watch Lion squirm. Unicorn's distinction to Lion is our economy. Without it, I don't think we have a chance on a Lion matchup.

 

Dragon can't outblitz us but Lion can.

[GasPoweredStick]

I think you are somewhat correct - I remeber one game I had with an ide trader equipped with a favoured mount, spyglass, and the dragon fate vampire all equipped - caused quite an issue for them. It's worth mentiong that they still almost won. While this evidence is anecdotal, saying we can out economy lion isn't strictly true - cards like spiritcaller and staging ground (less obviously an economy card, but one nonetheless) mean that lion can pull a lot of value out of nowhere just the same.

 

I tihnk our advantages over lion lie in our combat tricks. We have I am ready, and captive audience, both potent against lion (lion political cards often have little to no military skill, neutering half their challenges). Their conflict cards are send-homes, meaning nothing to unicorn. in general out political is stronger, with high glory values on balanced high value cards, we can get a lto more value out of court games than they can (remembeing to through in Iuchi wayfnider to sotp them counter court gamesing). i cuich wayfinder is also great - they can't scope out our provinces, bbut we can theirs. Sure in a straight up military conflict they have the edge iwth WotL and similar cards, so don;t try and but heads during military conflicts.

Remeber that their greatest military strength, the stronhold, can only be used when attacking, and if you're running way of the unicorn, you get first mil strike.

[ellonellanfair]

Indeed, we have stronger POL. Generally, Unicorn have balanced stats. That's why other people think the clan is weak because it's not exceptional to either MIL or POL. The truth is that we are threatening both conflicts and with all our movement effects, we can break in either conflicts.

 

Lion strength is in their Dynasty deck. That's why Staging Ground and Kitsu is their economy/recursion. Our strength is in our Conflict deck. So why are we not including Ide Trader that allows us to draw our Conflict Deck?

[GasPoweredStick]

Because I found including ide trader and favoured warhorse wasn't triggering consistently enough to be worthwhile.

 

I'm not sure there's much point in uas continuing this discussion. I have found Ide Trader not to be a worthwhile addition to the style of unicorn I want to play.

[ellonellanfair]

Apologies Gas, I might have come across as imposing. I was probing into what strengths the clan have and having another person who's passionate about the clan to discuss it with is rare. Your points are legitimate and acknowledged. I'll definitely try a wide small and fast setup like what you've crafted. What do you think of Seppun Guardsmen in this setup? Fits the bill for FGG, not a cavalry though.

[Silme]

How do you fight Lion given that he will bid 1 on you throughout the game? He can pump out more units than you do due to staging ground. When you're down in honor, suddenly those extra cards you drew that costs honor can't be used (Assassinate, Captive Audience and Banzai to an extent) I agree, CavRev+FGG is crucial in that matchup sometime in the mid to late game. Honored generals plus a few chumps could already outpower our offense, not to mention the crazy WotL. They even have Vengeful Oathkeepers for the counterattack. Meanwhile, what's their response to Ide Trader? What's their response to the powerful economy of Unicorn (Spyglasses and Ide)? Once these cards are in place, I'll start bidding 1 for days and watch Lion squirm. Unicorn's distinction to Lion is our economy. Without it, I don't think we have a chance on a Lion matchup.

 

Dragon can't outblitz us but Lion can.

Dragon IS outblizing us with a good deck, easily (more precisely with far more stability than we can on our blitz decks). Dragon match ups is very difficult for us to master as you need to stop their blitz AND keep a powerful table in midgame to still be able to stop them... But every clan is in this situation... stopping dragon need lot of tools / training as they blitz is so so heavy as soon as T1... our is more dynasty and conflict drawing dependant.

 

Lion is far slower in swarm configuration (ok you can't defend his MIL conflict but you take your POL province easier than he can, you can unbow, make surprise tricks...Etc). In allstar configuration, he is not a thread at all having the same strength as us but we are better in any way...

whatever his deck, he can stay on table longer but lion is an easy match up for us in general near whatever unicorn decks you are playing.

 

this is my opinion only of course maybe deformed by the decks i played and played against but...

[GKZhukov]

Is anyone not splashing Lion?

 

And what kind of consistency is everyone getting from their decks? I'm hearing a lot of "Unicorn is inconsistent" (and y'know if Gas has chosen them as his clan, I figure it has to be some kind of nonsense jank).

 

They are on my shortlist of clans to play as (because everyone says they suck, ergo challenge accepted), but RNG hates me so the comments about inconsistency are my greatest concern.

[eigensheep]

Is anyone not splashing Lion?

 

And what kind of consistency is everyone getting from their decks? I'm hearing a lot of "Unicorn is inconsistent" (and y'know if Gas has chosen them as his clan, I figure it has to be some kind of nonsense jank).

 

They are on my shortlist of clans to play as (because everyone says they suck, ergo challenge accepted), but RNG hates me so the comments about inconsistency are my greatest concern.

There are good amount of players not splashing Lion, but they don't seem to be as vocal and are definitely more scarce. I personally enjoy Scorpion and Dragon splashes, but I know some people are finding success with Crane and Phoenix as well. Crab seems to be the least utilized, even though I think they offer some decent options.

 

As far as consistency, they can be really inconsistent for a number of reasons. On the dynasty side, eliminating some of the top end (Horde/Tatsuo/Altansarnai) or a good portion of the three costers (Ide Trader, Giver of Gifts, Yumino, Warrior Poet) helps smooth things out. I know one player in particular eliminates everything above 3 cost. Personally, I've eliminated 9 out of 12 of the 3 cost characters. What's better? Who knows? But I can certainly say it improves consistency in either case.

 

On the Dynasty side, I think a lot of inconsistency comes from Lion splash. Ready for Battle and For Greater Glory, the most commonly splashed cards, don't actively help win conflicts really. They are reactive cards, and are often dead in hand. Combine this with a 3 cost Cavalry reserves, and you can frequently find yourself with nothing to do. On the flip side, a well-timed For Greater Glory can absolutely swing games. I know you played Conquest, so think of Lion splash like Aunshi during the middle of the games life. You either see the stuff that makes it work, or you suffer with sub-par components that struggle to win on their own. To that end, I find that other clans offer more generically useful cards, thereby improving deck consistency. 

 

If we were to tier off the clans, I believe it would look something like this:

Tier 1: Crane, Lion, Scorpion, Dragon
Tier 2: Crab, Phoenix
Tier 3: Unicorn

 

with the gap between tiers 1 and 2 being significantly smaller than tiers 2 and 3. That said, games are definitely winnable as Unicorn, and they aren't as trash as many make them out to be. They do have a steeper learning curve, and they do suffer from a weaker cardpool, and I think that's a bad combination for public perception.

 

This is all just personal opinion/experience of course, so ymmv.