148 replies to this topic

[DojiAkihiko]

I agree that rival is good, especially as a splash. He just doesn't fit my current build. My aversion to the perfect gift is partially that there are just better cards (wait till we can use the coming seeker card, which just reinforces high volume low cost event builds), and my own dislike of giving people anything. (Also see gift giver... but...)

As much as I dislike her I've considered running Doji gift giver over Otomo to fill slots in the deck until a better crane 2 coster comes up to force my opponent to play around her and bait them to overcommitment, with no intention of using it unless on a game defining play. It is a 0/2/1 courtier (no -, so can trigger courtier events in any ). But only testing can tell for sure if that is a good play. She will get replaced once another relevant low cost character pops up for us I believe (unless it's worse).

Keeper I've had in, but he just doesn't make the impact I want in this build so I cut him. He acts as a pseudo holding with conditional charge-like ability, until I discard him which has actually put me in a bind. I want to have the freedom to pick the most adventageous ring, and I'd rather have a different character with better stats and keywords in that province. He isn't as no brained in Crane as in clans like Crab for the recurring sacrifices.

Let's talk provinces! I'm currently using
Meditations of the Tao (multi use vs single use on night)
Entrenched Position (wish there was a better earth to be honest, could see even using the other)
Rally to the Cause (switching conflict seems better than ring for crane)
Manicured Garden (the 1 fate is clutch for 1 cost events, I usually use my bid to control my hand, our clan province is at odds with itself, though not terrible)
Shameful Display (the amount of swing can be significant, and feeds our counter, even though I like pilgrimage as well)

Looking at these and the new seeker event...
I'd be good with seeker of...
Void (run both pilgrimage and shameful)
Air (run both neutrals or garden and clan)
or Fire (to run meditations and night to thwart other high hand control decks)
Any new provinces could change the order of this however, and which of either earth or water get switched out.

May Doji grace your words, Kakita guide your sword, Asahina temper your conscience, and Daidoji watch your back,
Doji Akihiko

[Hakkor]

my own dislike of giving people anything. (Also see gift giver... but...)

 

So selfish. For shame!

[Javacaos]

Hi guys just a question, what splash are you playing with better results Phoenix or Scorpion?

[Hakkor]

Depends on your Strategy. Phoenix gives more control over rings via Display of Power (also letting you more aggresive), know the world and maybe bowing/readying shugenjas. The magnificent kimono is the exact extra honoring bit crane needs, but will force to ensure you attack or defense, depends where you are focusing.

Scorpion has poidon, which brilliantly combos with your stronghold, virtually immunizing you vs political attacks. Can also play forget edict, but doesnt work well with Voice of Honor and Stewsrd of Law. But it's the perfect combo with Savvy politician. The yojimbo also adds a strong military punch.

[IMABUNNEH]

Hi guys just a question, what splash are you playing with better results Phoenix or Scorpion?

Lion

[DojiAkihiko]

My preference,

Dragon... 3xLet Go and 3x Mirumotos Fury all day, every day.

[Jamesy]

My preference,

Dragon... 3xLet Go and 3x Mirumotos Fury all day, every day.

 

This. As good as some of the options the other clans bring to the table are, it's just very difficult to pass up Let Go and Mirumoto's Fury.

[FightingWalloon]

Two questions:

Do people not play Art of Peace?

Is the Scorpion splash a bad idea?

[Hakkor]

Art of Peace is harder to pull off, maybe in the future with Unicron keeper attachments it could become a great combo. Keeping your opponent away from the province, and luring him in when he attacks with everything. Personally, even if I get a single character honored and a couple of enemies dishonored, the province did a good job. If we sum it to Shameful Display, it's an excellent tool to use Noble Sacrifice on champions and alike, and incredibly boosts you when the Storyteller is around.

 

Splashing is always a matter of tastes. There aren't "bad" splashes or "good" splashes. As when deckbuilding, you include cards that help your strategy and tactics. Sometimes you can even consider your deck has no need of splashing if clan cards get the job done.

 

Scorpion has en excellent tool, poison cards (for the moment, there's just one), which debuff a character and make it an eligible target for the Stronghold. It works despite glory and state, and sums to the dishonored state debuff. That's something that can help much a control heavy deck. If you are fan of Spies at Court in Crane (specially when used with Savvy politician), you may have an interest in forged edict. Unassuming Yojimbo is an excelent choice if you need some more Military punch.

 

Other Scorpion cards are nice, but maybe do not synergize well with Crane control playstyle. Still, just the poison is a fair choice for splashing.

[migelpig]

For me I switch between Lion and Phoenix.

 

Lion for Battlefield control and presence. Ready for Battle, Stand your ground and vengeful oathkeeper all help in keeping personalities on the board or active during combat.

 

Phoenix: Mainly for the kimono and the Display of Power. I really like display of power but the high cost 2 fate (and 1 honor because you still lose unopposed) keeps me wondering if it's truly worth it..

[Hakkor]

For me I switch between Lion and Phoenix.

 

Lion for Battlefield control and presence. Ready for Battle, Stand your ground and vengeful oathkeeper all help in keeping personalities on the board or active during combat.

 

Phoenix: Mainly for the kimono and the Display of Power. I really like display of power but the high cost 2 fate (and 1 honor because you still lose unopposed) keeps me wondering if it's truly worth it..

 

It's incredibly powerful. It will also become a thing once Yoshi comes out, since Display of Power lets you save units from defending and makes you claim the ring for the Imperial Favor.

[sparrowhawk]

My preference,
Dragon... 3xLet Go and 3x Mirumotos Fury all day, every day.

I fully agree but I think it's a stylistic choice and I feel several splashes can be justified.

The point with Dragon splash is they are both hidden knowledge and they are cheap with no hidden cost (like Forged Edict which debuffs a glory 1+ courtier as well as costing 1H later, also anti-synergy with Steward of Law which is so good with For Shame as well as hated by Scorpion opponents).

Let Go is cancel for attachments. In a meta that plays 3x Fan to bypass Shizuka Toshi (I must be becoming a Crane player if I know their stronghold name now), you suddenly removing that reliance is powerful.

A similarity is Above Question and Ready for Battle in Dragon. One is pre-emptive and costs 1 and only moves the targeting of the bow event to another target. Whilst the latter is reactive, cost 0 vs 1 cost of Admit Defeat / Mirumoto's Fury so an opponent has now lost more and the threat was averted.

As for Mirumoto's Fury, with 1 Steward of Law making all your For Shame (not 1/conflict) into free bow events (after paying Steward), you get 9 bow events. This is Redundancy, to overfocus on an effect that can be countered (Ready for Battle, I Am Ready) to make more of them get through and resolve.

To me, strong cards are cards that can be played in isolation, versatile and standalone. The Dragon splash fulfils that criteria.

However, it is incredibly vanilla. It is simply Good Stuff.dec, a Junk deck. Some players do not like to play such vanilla powerful cards builds. They like to make more situational cards work. And that's fine. Each to their own.

I believe Scorpion and Dragon are the best splashes. I prefer Phoenix splash in Scorpion (who often fail to completely debuff attacker to 0 after declaring no defenders and often benefit from an unopposed Honour loss plus Pacifism complements their unbalanced pool) because I'm not a fan of Kimono (it's value is as an extra half fan) or rather I'm not a fan of Pride keyword. It's too risky with so many tricks in player hands. Fine in Phoenix who desperately need potential Honouring (and Dishonour denial) cards. But those card slots can be used for greater reliable impact with another splash.

Again, this is all personal preference, but I try to support my stances with logical argument.

[DojiAkihiko]

I agree there are a few viable splashes, it says good things for the health of the game at this early stage.

As promised here are my opinions on the core of the Crane deck.
As always ymmv, and What is good for me wont be good for everyone, however I think these core cards will get consideration the entire length of the game.

Musings in Shizuka Toshi

Provinces, a Discussion:
Air= Manicured Garden- Fate is life, Fate is love. I’d run both neutrals if we got SoA.
Void= Shameful Display- Better than Pilgrimage for Crane, but I’d run both if we got SoV.
Fire= Meditations on the Tao- Action every combat that swings tempo. Better than as revealed Night Raid.
Water= Rally to the Cause- best of two mediocre provinces for Water imho. Can sometimes cause a surprise win at a province if you get lucky.
Earth= Either... I’m leaning towards Ancestral because military decks have little trouble getting really high numbers with the numerous high variance military cards, while political decks have a harder time. Should almost always be on the stronghold.

Building a Dynasty:

Holdings I Recommend=
3x Imperial Storehouse- Just better than the Crane Holding. Sacrifice before the end of the turn they pop up, and statistics are on your side not to be holding flushed.

Characters I Can’t Play Without=
3x Doji Challenger- 2nd best 3 cost char in the game. 3 fate for 3/3/2. She’s a monster honored, which isn’t hard for us to accomplish. Her magnet ability can just win games.
3x Cautious Scout- Would you like to blank provinces... would you like to blank revealed for the whole game. I thought you did.
3x Brash Samurai- Functionally a 4mil for 2fate. Helps turn on our counter card.
3x Savvy Politician- Solid courtier that goes up to 3pol when honored while turning our counter card on, and ideally turning a 2-3 glory character up to 11. All at 2 cost.
3x Guest of Honor- Good pol body with an amazing ability. Only draw back is the awkward 4 cost.
2-3x Doji Hotaru- High stats, particularly when honored. On the attack her ability can greatly swing games in your favor.

Nobles in Savage Conflicts:

Attached to these=
3x Fine Katana & 3x Ornate Fan- 0 cost attachments that go in every deck

A Series of Unfortunate Events=
3x Admit Defeat- Such a good card, makes lone defenders cry, messing up the opponents conflict math. Use with single attacker, or in conjunction with challenger if they don’t defend.
3x Assassination- This is a great card for as long as there are great low cost cards, especially with fate on them.
3x Banzai- BANZAI!
3x Court Games- Honor yours or dishonor theirs. Simple, and effective.
3x For Shame!- Dishonor or bow. Steward makes this another straight up bow card.
2x Outwit- While not as powerful as the bow cards, cards like Lion’s Pride Brawler/ Doji Challenger and situations like final pushes and last declared conflict keep this at least a 2.
3x Voice of Honor- Just say no. Say no to Show of Power, say no to Mirumoto’s Fury. So no toFor greater Glory. Just say no.
3x Way of the Crane- All the honorable people.

A Strong Alliance Choice
3x Mirumoto’s Fury- This is the reason to splash Dragon. This card is unopposed bow. This card is serious early tempo. The defensive counterpart to admit defeat. Use this.
3x Let Go- Icing on the cake for Dragon splash. Hate the attachments. Use defensively, use aggressively.

[chaosvt]

Why do people like asahina artisan as a x3 instead of otomo courtier? I never find the shugenja trait useful and the lack of courtier prevents certain conflict cards. Using her ability means she cant be a blocker as well. Her glory stat is higher and she doesn't have a dash for military, does that make her better? 

[Atrus]

Asahina Artisan for me is a great card! She helps you for Imperial Favour, can give you +3 Politics to any character if needed (even can protect your Military dudes against Outwit, or can save some Political dudes against other cranes matchups, also helps to break provinces etc), she is also a Shugenja so you can play Cloud the Mind (an awesome card), she can defend to not lose honor, and last but not least, can be Honored to be a 2/2 character! 

 

x2 is great because she can't play alone initially, but I can see her x3 also perfectly.

[sparrowhawk]

Asahina Artisan allows you to open with that Water ring with Fate on it for 1 character with +3P, often for a break. Sounds good.

I've now gone off Crane after my undefeated Crane (Dragon) was beaten twice in a row by a Scorpion (Dragon) and a Dragon (Crab) in 2 marathon 2 hour games. In both games, I had raced to a 3-1 lead despite never once getting to trigger my Stronghold but I could not break a Pilgrimage Capital (missing by 1 twice in each game and that short-term overcommit hurts), losing to Dishonour vs Scorpion, then tilting and conceding just as the games cafe was about to close after Yokuni (appearing twice) copied Fated up Challenger to siphon Fate off my longterm build characters with Kazue. I feel I was very unlucky with draws (I needed 1 of 3 Admit Defeat or 2 remaining Let Go to win in that last game) but my very experienced LCG opponent just played better overall. Crane aren't as brilliant as I thought they were (neither am I, sadly). Gonna explore another Clan now.

Pilgrimage under Stronghold. It's a thing.

[Asklepios]

Pilgrimage under Stronghold is what I always play for Crab, mostly because Crab has the option of a decent Earth province that is useful in the array of four. Other clans, it's hard, because putting Pilgrimage under stronghold means putting Entrenched Position out in the open, where it is prone to get farmed.

[sparrowhawk]

True. But only if it's the 4th open province that you haven't picked? That you can then deduce and farm if you know your probe can't break any province.

I agree that it works in Crab and also think it works in Scorpion. Both low Glory clans who miss Shameless Display least (and Scorpion often just debuffs probes to 0 anyway so does not block).

I was simply challenging Shameless Display groupthink with this real life anecdote that shook my confidence a bit. (I'm not a bad loser - I just anguish over those games and replay it in my mind, try and work out what I could have done better to win; against Dragon I even saved the 1 Let Go I saw for the first Kazue and I dared him to solo defend with 1F unspent and he fearlessly did - perhaps over-telegraphed hence he knew it was always a bluff, he does know my mind as he's an ace Netrunner).

I don't think Pilgrimage under Stronghold was good for Dragon and actually feel it should be Meditations. Because the moment I saw his Meditations in the outer, I let out a sigh of relief then bid freely instead of careful card counting.

The farming concept is very true but when you play as aggressively as I do (you need to be winning when time is called, whilst almost always lower honour, I was 2 provinces up with Favour for almost all of both losses), farming is mostly a luxury for long casual games. Don't you think? Does demonstrate how flawed the tie breakers are because I would have won both games modified wins.

I learnt far more from those 2 losses than I did from all the wins preceding it, going back to my first game loss with Lion Crab vs Kuroi Mori when we played broken provinces wrong (Library that gives eternally, thought they were broken). So apart from a badly bruised ego, I heartily recommend being beaten in any epic close games as a way of learning in far more condensed time. Best if you post-mortem a game right afterwards and be constructively frank in order to help your mate improve.

One clever thing he did in both games when he had revealed 3 of my provinces but only broken 1 was to attack the 4th province in the wrong conflict, anticipating I had Entrenched Position as Stronghold hence as it happened 4th province had to be my Water province. Because Crane has an asymmetric shape (sometimes shockingly military), Rally the Cause may not be correct choice for Crane...

I'm not beating myself up over the losses cos I was initially overconfident vs Scorpion first game (big mistake when he revealed Dragon splash to Fury Hotaru, perhaps telegraphed as he instantly Assassinated Brash Samurai to keep Voice offline) then the Dragon cards came out perfectly (e.g. open 2 Temples as 2nd player, turn 2 Enlightened Warrior to turn 3 Seeker of Enlightenment, Raitsuga with Way of the Dragon and 2 Weapons, Niten Adept with Reprieve etc). He crucially Earth Ringed my Voice before his key Fury in reply, he saw early Furies and I saw them late along with my last 2 Voices which ended in my hand. He played Watch Commander over Mountain and it worked really well, raising Raitsuga above 2 Political (my kingdom for Let Go!), resulting in me having 1 Assassinate unplayable in hand at the end. If Dragon can survive early Crane onslaught, all the Ancestral, Swordsmith and Investigator card advantage wins the long game. My two Guests of Honour at the end were a liability, preventing him from spending resources on events I could cancel for free!

I learnt a lot losing. And it's good I've been bruised, because humility comes off better. Onto Scorpion Phoenix...

[Hakkor]

I learnt far more from those 2 losses than I did from all the wins preceding it, going back to my first game loss with Lion Crab vs Kuroi Mori when we played broken provinces wrong (Library that gives eternally, thought they were broken). So apart from a badly bruised ego, I heartily recommend being beaten in epic close games as a way of learning in far more condensed time. Best if you post-mortem a game right afterwards and be constructively frank in order to help your mate improve.

I learnt a lot losing. And it's good I've been bruised, humility comes off better. Onto Scorpion Phoenix...

 

The Little Scorpion next to me nods.

[DojiAkihiko]

It is always good to lose and learn. Seems like good plays and draws from your opponent those two turns. No shame in losing. I just keep looking for more consistency in my own deck currently.