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[Ruling] Forced March + Ygritte / Ser Barristan Selmy

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Best Answer mplain , 12 July 2018 - 06:00 AM

1) When I reveal Forced March and my opponent kneels a character, can I kneel my Ygritte to initiate the effect again?
Ygritte cannot be knelt by card effects, but Forced March says "kneel to initiate", which means kneeling is a cost. Yet it is not a cost paid in step 4 "Pay Costs", rather it is part of Step 7 "Resolve effects". So, is kneeling here a cost, an effect, or both?


Kneeling here is a cost, as it follows the “do X to do Y” construct. Costs are not considered to be effects, even if they occur during the “resolve effects” step.
 

2) When I reveal Forced March to my opponent's Valar Morghulis, and my opponent kneels his only character with a military icon, can I kneel my Ser Barristan Selmy (the Baratheon one) to initiate the effect again, even though my opponent will have no more eligile characters to kneel? I want Selmy knelt in order to save someone from Valar.
RRG "Abilities" says: "A card ability can only be initiated if its effect has the potential to change the game state." However, I am not initiating an ability here, only its effects. Ability initiates in step 1, effects initiate in step 6. Does any other rule prevent me from initiating the effect?


The general rule for costs applies — you cannot pay the cost of an ability if the resolution of its effects will not change the game state.
(I do understand how the use of the word “ability” vs. “effect” caused some potential ambiguity.)

[Danny Schaefer, 12.07.2018] Go to the full post »


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#1
mplain

mplain

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1) When I reveal Forced March and my opponent kneels a character, can I kneel my Ygritte to initiate the effect again?
Ygritte cannot be knelt by card effects, but Forced March says "kneel to initiate", which means kneeling is a cost. Yet it is not a cost paid in step 4 "Pay Costs", rather it is part of Step 7 "Resolve effects". So, is kneeling here a cost, an effect, or both?


2) When I reveal Forced March to my opponent's Valar Morghulis, and my opponent kneels his only character with a military icon, can I kneel my Ser Barristan Selmy (the Baratheon one) to initiate the effect again, even though my opponent will have no more eligile characters to kneel? I want Selmy knelt in order to save someone from Valar.
RRG "Abilities" says: "A card ability can only be initiated if its effect has the potential to change the game state." However, I am not initiating an ability here, only its effects. Ability initiates in step 1, effects initiate in step 6. Does any other rule prevent me from initiating the effect?
 

Forced March:

When Revealed: Each opponent kneels 1 character he or she controls with a military icon. Then, you may kneel a character with a military icon to initiate this effect again.



#2
mplain

mplain

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✓  Best Answer

1) When I reveal Forced March and my opponent kneels a character, can I kneel my Ygritte to initiate the effect again?
Ygritte cannot be knelt by card effects, but Forced March says "kneel to initiate", which means kneeling is a cost. Yet it is not a cost paid in step 4 "Pay Costs", rather it is part of Step 7 "Resolve effects". So, is kneeling here a cost, an effect, or both?


Kneeling here is a cost, as it follows the “do X to do Y” construct. Costs are not considered to be effects, even if they occur during the “resolve effects” step.
 

2) When I reveal Forced March to my opponent's Valar Morghulis, and my opponent kneels his only character with a military icon, can I kneel my Ser Barristan Selmy (the Baratheon one) to initiate the effect again, even though my opponent will have no more eligile characters to kneel? I want Selmy knelt in order to save someone from Valar.
RRG "Abilities" says: "A card ability can only be initiated if its effect has the potential to change the game state." However, I am not initiating an ability here, only its effects. Ability initiates in step 1, effects initiate in step 6. Does any other rule prevent me from initiating the effect?


The general rule for costs applies — you cannot pay the cost of an ability if the resolution of its effects will not change the game state.
(I do understand how the use of the word “ability” vs. “effect” caused some potential ambiguity.)

[Danny Schaefer, 12.07.2018]
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