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The Lannister HoD Tunnels of the Red Keep deck thread

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#1
ShadowcatX2000

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So in the tradition of Pulse Gazer's Martell KotHH thread I'm doing a, well look at the thread title.

So the basics of the deck:

10 - 20 shadows cards. - obviously you're running Tunnels you want shadows cards. In my meta there's currently 3 of these decks floating around, 1 runs 11 shadows cards (I believe), 1 runs 15, and I run 19.

7 cards dedicated to draw: 3x pyromancer's cache, 1x tommen, 3x golden tooth mines

10- 15 cards dedicated to gold production: Some combination of Gold producing weenies, limited locations, kingdom of shadows, and increased levy. I personally use 3 kingdom of shadows, 3 limited (the fewest limited I think I've ever used in a deck), and 6 weenies.

Control: Oh dear gods where do I start talking about the control package this deck packs.

2 - 3 Alchemist guildhall
1 Lannisport Brothel
1 Volantis Inn
1 Lannisport Tourney Grounds
0 - 3 Pentoshi Manor
3 Brothel Guard
3 Enemy Informer
0 - 2 iron throne
0 - 3 enslaved

Events (all 0 - 3) (I feel like a bad control player playing this deck, Lannister has some of the best events in the game (second only to Martell, IMO) but I only run 3 events total. I know several other people play many more though.)

A House Divided
A lannister Pays His Debts
I'm You Writ Small
You killed the wrong dwarf

Uniques:
Tyrion Lannister (CoS) - He is THE GUY in this deck. 5 strength tricon and renown before you get to whatever buffs he gets from your agenda location and you can stand him with kingdom of shadows.


Cersei Lannister (AToT) - Yes, there is a form of Cersei other than the non-kneeling Cersei and in this deck she is tremendously powerful.


Qyburn (SaS) - He's a shadows card, he's got deadly on the right challenges, and he has an awesome ability.


Ser Arys Oakheart (PotS) - Renown (which the deck really needs), and an amazing ability, and he's at the sweet spot for gold where he's not getting bounced for first snow.


Syrio Forel (TftRK) - He's a shadows guy and he can jump back to shadows, which means he can repeatedly trigger alchemist guildhall (obviously only once per turn) and Tyrion. So important to the deck and even if he dies his dupes aren't a dead draw.


Varys (SaS) - Because, you know, why not?


Littlefinger (SaS) - Have you seen him in action?
Plots:

2 out of the 3 decks in my meta have 6 out of 7 plots the same. They are the city plots:

City of Lies, City of Spiders, City of Soldiers, City of Sin, A city besieged, and valar. (Always run valar, of course.)

The 7th plot is up in the air.

Other good plot choices for the deck include controlling plots and the typical lannister plots:

Shadows and spiders
Loyalty money can buy
Frey Hospitality
etc.

So what are the deck's weaknesses?

First, the Tunnels. Without it the deck is just running a lot of characters you wouldn't normally see. Of course, unless you're running search and detain you're probably not going to have an easy time getting rid of tunnels, and even search and detain won't do it first turn since city of lies beats your initiative (unless you're hollow hill) and not doing it first turn risks them putting pyromancer's cache or increased levy on it. (Increased levy cannot be setup on your house location, despite what some people may say.)

Second, speed. The deck is a control deck and so if you're fast you might be able to grab a win while it is still setting up. Alternatively, you can use their lack of speed against them in dragging the game out to time.

Third, location hate: If you noticed the amount of control you'd notice that a lot of that is in the form of locations, some of which are expensive 2 costing unique locations. Get rid of a Lannisport Brothel and it is gone for good. Ditto the tourny grounds. Unfortunately, there's probably too many locations for most decks to take them apart 1 by 1 (greyjoy and maybe stark warcrest decks excluded). Fleeing to the wall, however, can easily generate 3 - 4 for 1.

Fourth: First Snow. Playing against this deck I probably wouldn't play first snow early, you'll just get a couple gold producers and maybe a brothel guard if you're lucky, but it is quite possible that after a valar (yours or theirs) they'll bring 3 - 4 guys out of shadows, all of which cost 2. A first snow the next turn can not only bounce a bunch of guys off the table, but it can clog up their shadows phase for a turn as well.

And now I feel like I've rambled enough, so I'm going to put this out there and just let people say whatever they wish.
  • JCWamma, Seriously, PulseGlazer and 1 other like this

#2
Ire

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This might be a preference of mine, but I do like to run the no-kneel cersei more often than the shadow kneeler in this deck. Why? It gives me more speed and another finisher option in a situation where I have several cards in shadow, a high strength non-kneeler will do well as Littlefinger shows. It is also good to remember that she can activate her power gain ability even when you win on defense (which is not too hard for this deck type to do on intrigue) and not just offense.
  • PulseGlazer likes this

#3
PulseGlazer

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How many of these do you run? Especially the uniques. Also, no House Payne Enforcer? They're incredible.

Forgotten Plans works great to combat First Snow and is a generally good first turn. Enslaved is sick in this one.

Suggestion- x3 Former Champion. They improve power gain here a ton, especially sine they generally begin at 7 or 8 str.

#4
ShadowcatX2000

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I run 3 Tyrion and 2 Syrio and 1 of everyone else. I haven't actually updated my IRL deck to include littlefinger yet.

And I can definitely see the point of non-kneeling Cersei. As to former champions though, I probably wouldn't, there's better characters available at 3 gold with renown, and if you really want to speed the deck up toss in non-kneeling Asha.

#5
omok23

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recently i build my own version of this deck... and it is very different :D

7 cards dedicated to draw: 3x pyromancer's cache, 1x tommen, 3x golden tooth mines

who plays golden tooth mines, if u have the cache ?

Volantis Inn is one of the weeker control cards. it didnt find a slot in my deck.

brothel guard is also questionable, cause it doesnt impact the game the turn u play it.

7th plot card for me is retalliation.... u need some protecton against sod, if u dont have the cache on ur tunnels...

#6
Bomb

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Suggestion- x3 Former Champion. They improve power gain here a ton, especially sine they generally begin at 7 or 8 str.


I also use 3x of them in my TotRK deck for similar reasons.

I made my deck for casual melee however.

I also use Shagga Son of Dolf and Ser Balon Swann because while they kneel, they can still defend one of the challenge types(Shagga lets your refugees defend). With having so much jacked up STR, they can win most challenges while kneeling.

I have 1x Arrogant Contender (LotR) because he should win many challenges by himself, and just in case the opponent takes a chance and tries to over-defend and fail, he should be able to claim some power. Or the opponent won't defend at all. I feel like he is sort of win-win even though he is an ally.

I think this deck type can have several different versions because there are so many control options in Lannister.
  • erocklawell likes this

#7
Bomb

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As to former champions though, I probably wouldn't, there's better characters available at 3 gold with renown, and if you really want to speed the deck up toss in non-kneeling Asha.


Well when I was building my deck, I couldn't really find anything as useful as the Former Champion at 3 cost with Renown unless I were to pull it out of house. Former Champion gains icons and keywords(Deadly and Stealth) as he claims power at the cost of his -2 STR, and the TotRK mitigates that STR loss significantly. I also forgot that he only gains all that extra **** when his strength is low, and I actually though it was based on the number of power he had at first glance. So, I will now probably and sadly remove him from my deck. He'll be a single icon for just about the entire game.

#8
ShadowcatX2000

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eho plays golden tooth mines, if u have the cache ?


I definitely do. Cache is only 3 cards and they're attachments at that. I prefer lots of draw. (Honestly, if Lanny had another solid draw card that rivaled those 2, I'd run it as well.)

1 Volantis Inn is one of the weeker control cards. it didnt find a slot in my deck.


I can definitely see dropping Volantis Inn. I'm not 100% sold on it myself, and it can easily transform into an event at some point in the future.

brothel guard is also questionable, cause it doesnt impact the game the turn u play it.


Here I do disagree, brothel guard doesn't kneel anyone for challenges the turn you play it, but at 5 or so strength and 2 cost, it definitely has an impact.

7th plot card for me is retalliation.... u need some protecton against sod, if u dont have the cache on ur tunnels...


I can see that, I'm still experimenting myself.

And yes, this deck does have a ton of options, but I think if we all put our heads together we can work out what works the best.

#9
ShadowcatX2000

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Well when I was building my deck, I couldn't really find anything as useful as the Former Champion at 3 cost with Renown unless I were to pull it out of house. Former Champion gains icons and keywords(Deadly and Stealth) as he claims power at the cost of his -2 STR, and the TotRK mitigates that STR loss significantly. I also forgot that he only gains all that extra **** when his strength is low, and I actually though it was based on the number of power he had at first glance. So, I will now probably and sadly remove him from my deck. He'll be a single icon for just about the entire game.


A lot of people don't agree with me, but Lady Stoneheart is an amazing character if you're wanting renown.
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#10
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I also have Wildfire Assault over Valar. When I was building my deck, I had decided that I had enough control to not want to wipe my own board but at the same time really hurt the opponent if they over ran me in board position. With my control, I was able to kneel those 3 characters remaining and then sometimes some of the new ones they put out..

#11
Karma

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I'm with shadow. The more draw, the better a deck performs. My Martells play 18 cards that searches/draws/adds to hand.

#12
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A lot of people don't agree with me, but Lady Stoneheart is an amazing character if you're wanting renown.


I have considered her before, but hate the Ally trait at the same time. I very well might run Thoros of Myr though.

I may also consider Lyanna Stark (ODG) even at 4 gold. She won't hurt your non-uniques, and maybe you won't care about the opponent's STR since yours is so high, but the fact that she isn't hurting you can be nice... plus she is renown.

There are also a few cards in my deck that claim power for things other than renown to help off set missing renown.

#13
Ire

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It really depends on the deck on how much draw you will need and can you take some out. I have now been running some aggressive forms of Lannister where I have just deemed Golden Tooth mines too slow ~I could have never before even see the day that I would type that sentence.
In HoD TotRK you have to run most draw effects the house has since if your opponent is somehow out drawing you he can over flood your high str characters by just having more out. There is also the thing that you are looking at two card resources that you have to handle simultaneously which means that cards are even more valuable to you than normally. What I mean is that you have to have good balance on cards in shadow and characters on board.

#14
Rave

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I think 7 cards dedicated to draw is about right, because of how strong the Cache is. I think he could get away with Doubting Septa over GTM if the location base was getting too big, but if it's not clumping, it seems fine as it is. I do believe too much draw hurts a deck though.

I think the KL Cersei is money in this decktype, since the plan is to keep cards in the shadows.

Are you comfortable posting the whole decklist as it stands right now? I would like to comment more, but I think it would be easier seeing the deck as a whole.
Assuming the deck takes awhile to get started, are you worried about decks that also run a city plot base being able to hit the tunnels?
What turn do you feel the deck starts to establish control? what is your usual order of plots to get there?

#15
scantrell24

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I like running Ser Jaime Lannister (LotR) in this deck. He works great with Volantis Inn, and between him, Littlefinger, and Cersei its worth running Power of Blood to save them when an opponent might Valar.

What do ya'll think about King's Landing (SaS) instead of Golden Tooth Mines?

#16
ShadowcatX2000

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Here's my current (online) deck list. My IRL deck list isn't much different I don't think, 3 house divided instead of 3 1 of's for events, and I don't have littlefinger (too lazy to bother looking for him yet). (Sorry, it looked nice and neat until I submitted it. :( Here is a link.



Section: Draw Deck (59 cards) Card Set Number Type Rarity 1 x A House Divided WLL 65 Event F 1 x A Lannister Pays His Debts Core 166 Event L 3 x Alchemist's Guild Hall Blckwtr 103 Location F 3 x Brothel Guard LotR 43 Character F 1 x Cersei Lannister Trials 24 Character F 3 x Enemy Informer Core 48 Character L 3 x Golden Tooth Mines Core 57 Location L 1 x I'm You Writ Small Core 165 Event L 3 x Kingdom of Shadows KotS 32 Location F 1 x Lannisport Brothel Core 56 Location L 3 x Lannisport Moneylender LotR 22 Character F 1 x Lannisport Tourney Grounds ODG 44 Location F 3 x Lannisport Weaponsmith Core 53 Character L 3 x Pentoshi Manor AHM 64 Location F 3 x Pyromancer's Apprentice Blckwtr 118 Character F 3 x Pyromancer's Cache W5K 13 Attachment F 1 x Qyburn SS 83 Character F 1 x Ser Arys Oakheart PotS 9 Character F 3 x Shadowcat KotS 43 Character F 3 x Silent Sisters KotS 44 Character F 2 x Syrio Forel TftRK 77 Character F 3 x The Goldroad LotR 29 Location F 1 x The Iron Throne LotR 31 Location F 1 x Tommen Baratheon SA 106 Character F 3 x Tyrion Lannister CSec 5 Character F 3 x Vale Refugee RW 97 Character F 1 x Varys SS 97 Character F 1 x Volantis Inn AHM 63 Location F


Section: Plot Deck (7 cards) Card Set Number Type Rarity 1 x A City Besieged CD 59 Plot F 1 x City of Lies CSec 19 Plot F 1 x City of Sin Trials 40 Plot F 1 x City of Soldiers Blckwtr 120 Plot F 1 x City of Spiders TftRK 80 Plot F 1 x Loyalty Money Can Buy QoD 53 Plot F 1 x Valar Morghulis Core 201 Plot S

Section: House and Agenda (3 cards) Card Set Number Type Rarity 1 x House Lannister Core H3 House F 1 x House of Dreams ARotD 119 Agenda F 1 x Tunnels of the Red Keep CSec 6 Location F

#17
Ire

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What do ya'll think about King's Landing (SaS) instead of Golden Tooth Mines?


Can work especially in the more control heavy version. The plus side of this card is the fact that it is immune to newly made lord.

#18
ShadowcatX2000

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I like running Ser Jaime Lannister (LotR) in this deck. He works great with Volantis Inn, and between him, Littlefinger, and Cersei its worth running Power of Blood to save them when an opponent might Valar.


Normally since the deck plays so many weenies, has so many characters it can bring out of shadows for free, and so much draw recovering from a valar isn't difficult. And that's the same reason I prefer valar over something like wildfire assault. Inevitably my opponent will play a character I want to just straight up kill. Valar does that, wildfire does not.

What do ya'll think about King's Landing (SaS) instead of Golden Tooth Mines?


I think King's Landing is probably too expensive. Its a great card and I had it in the deck in the beginning and I've considered putting it back in (though not in place of the mines) but it costs 4, and it really wants more king's landing locations than I'm running (not that it would be a huge blow to the deck, it wouldn't, but I'm personally not quite convinced enough to put it in).

#19
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I like running Ser Jaime Lannister (LotR) in this deck. He works great with Volantis Inn, and between him, Littlefinger, and Cersei its worth running Power of Blood to save them when an opponent might Valar.


For some reason, that version of Jaime is my favorite. Maybe because he's renown and noble, but I really enjoy his self standing ability. I pay for him with Flea Bottom without consequence as well.

#20
mnBroncos

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well wont let me post my whole deck to many imagies and not sure how to do it without copy and paste haha so the short version is alot of same of what been said some difference.

big thing though is i feel best way to run this deck for sure is with the city plots, first turn drop 2 shadow cards for free and then start doing some work not to mention can two turns that kneel almost oppenents board if not all of it. I actually do not run valar in this deck anymore if i cant control it enough with kneel probably not going to win anyways i haven't had a game yet that valaring would make a difference. If someone can tell me how to post deck without imagies be great (: