Lion's Gate

what's the point with carrion bird / mance raider?
carrion bird shuffle a "printed" raven trait so you cant' use lion's Gate (see faq) and mance blank a location or agenda (how can you add power to a location/agenda to change trait ? )

you try to use night's watch synergy, but with only Old Bear's Crow (TGM) x1 (you can't really count on it and it add few advantage to yours night's watch, because some have no icon at all and you can't add icon)

Apologies, Kriss, for not fully reading the FAQ re: Carrion Bird nor the functionality of Lion's Gate ("then").

I have to add that it was obvious where I made a mistake in my understanding of an inelegantly templated game.

Instead of just politely explaining my mistake, your triumphant puzzlement reassures me that stereotypes of socially handicapped games players are indeed based on truth.

I mean really guys, I obviously made a mistake about a game that delights in little extra rules and re-writing of cards, is it any wonder that there are so many lurkers when this is how you treat anyone who dares to post?

The hobby should look at how it treats players who don't know the intricacies of the FAQ (v 5.0) by heart

To have so many cards that don't do what's printed and so many rules not in the basic rules - and then have people pull you up for not knowing what are "extra rules" in such a charming and gracious manner, it makes you wonder how the game has survived being so badly templated so long.

I made a mistake because I didn't fully read or understand the nuances of a FAQ that reads more like common law (so we just had a rule there's an invisible "5 cards at your command" in KotHH - so many cards are like proxies with text you can't read unless you refer to the FAQ).

So much for posting this "fun build" idea and being politely told where I went wrong in my understanding of the cards. If people don't realise just how alienating replies like above are, the hobby deserves to wither and die.

Apologies, Kriss, for not fully reading the FAQ re: Carrion Bird nor the functionality of Lion's Gate ("then").

I have to add that it was obvious where I made a mistake in my understanding of an inelegantly templated game.

Instead of just politely explaining my mistake, your triumphant puzzlement reassures me that stereotypes of socially handicapped games players are indeed based on truth.

I mean really guys, I obviously made a mistake about a game that delights in little extra rules and re-writing of cards, is it any wonder that there are so many lurkers when this is how you treat anyone who dares to post?

The hobby should look at how it treats players who don't know the intricacies of the FAQ (v 5.0) by heart

To have so many cards that don't do what's printed and so many rules not in the basic rules - and then have people pull you up for not knowing what are "extra rules" in such a charming and gracious manner, it makes you wonder how the game has survived being so badly templated so long.

I made a mistake because I didn't fully read or understand the nuances of a FAQ that reads more like common law (so we just had a rule there's an invisible "5 cards at your command" in KotHH - so many cards are like proxies with text you can't read unless you refer to the FAQ).

So much for posting this "fun build" idea and being politely told where I went wrong in my understanding of the cards. If people don't realise just how alienating replies like above are, the hobby deserves to wither and die.

He's in no way coming off as rude, blunt at worst. He's simply helping a, by the sound of it, new player by pointing out some things that might not be obvious to everyone. If you brought this deck to your local store to play, your opponents would most likely abide by the offical rules. No where in your post do you say "I know this deck isn't legal, it's just a fun deck to play with friends".

Was a little awkward how he went about addressing that, sure it wasn't his intention though. I think having those lions gate and the minor trait manipulation will come in handy in the new meta, I'd consider lowering the count though. I'd also consider running more then 1 raven and more sams. It will save you the hassle of having to search for it with your plot if you can draw into it, and with kings of summer and winter coming off we'll probably see more seasons shenanigans happening.

Re-reading Kris' reply, I concede it may have been clumsy wording which I took the wrong way.
I accept I misconstrued the tone of the reply and over-reacted and for that I apologise to Kris.

I am sure I am not the first new poster (who has been playing for many years, started just before the Stark deluxe expansion) who has lurked on this forum but dared not post in case I made an error in a game that has incredibly circuitous rules with an ever-changing FAQ. I've seen many replies in the past which triumphantly highlight an error made by a nervous new poster. Those replies (which are never by the familiar names who are good ambassadors) do the Thrones community a great disservice.

I described this as a "fun build" and it had none of the checks of my other builds submitted since Easter - as I wasn't taking it seriously!

When corrected, I immediately realised I had made 2 errors:
(1) not knowing the Carrion Birds errata (you have to check every card in this game for invisible writing)
(2) missing the crucial "then" in Lion's Gate
I explained both mistakes in the first line of my reply (it should be obvious what I was aiming for).

No where in your post do you say "I know this deck isn't legal, it's just a fun deck to play with friends".

Erm, the deck is perfectly legal - janky rubbish but legal.
There are no banned cards currently, it breaks no restricted rules and it does not have more than 3 copies of any card.
Why on earth would I say anything beyond "this is a fun build" - as I did in the very first line!

You patronise me with "by the sound of it, a new player" so I assume you consider yourself a more experienced player?
In which case, I would like to draw your attention to the very first card after the House Card...

Song of Fire!

With Kings of Summer free, how can anyone treat any deck that starts with that agenda as anything but a "fun build"?


Anyway, enough retrospection, I'd best salvage something out of that over-hastily submitted build.

Talieson, you display the diplomatic tact of your avatar (that's a compliment).
I hear where you are coming from about the Sam draw engine and messing with the Winter out there,
The only reason to play Song of Fire is as a meta call, as players think they can safely play the awesome Kings of Winter as SoF is so bad.

I agree that I should increase the Black Ravens to circumvent A Time for Ravens which can be played later vs. Song of Ice etc.
However, I don't like to rely on Sam as a draw engine (by having multiples), he never stays around and dupes are dead draws.

Initially the build tried to leverage The Neck (Clansmen and Creatures) but that got cut before I posted.
I now realise I should have just cut Clansmen altogether because of their anti-synergy with drawing, Shagga doesn't boost Mimes etc.
Instead, just focus on card draw (Jaime, Gold Cloaks) and reveal draw (Corsairs), changing Cersei to her cheaper Queen (8 shadows).
Together with 3 Caches (4 monarchs support, also for Joffrey's Guard, Gerold), 3 Kingsroads, Widow's Wail, Sam, Janos, Gilly, Summer Tommen.
With the Mimes as Night's Watch, Kingsguard, Mercenaries, Smugglers etc. (whilst not cancelling this Tommen)

The Green Dreams remain as justification for the agenda.
The first played gets the 1 copy of Lion's Gate to trait manipulate opponent's renown (for Dissension, Aerys, Ygritte, sadly not Varys/Birds)
The next played gets Summer Tommen as he triggers Cache, Joffrey's Guard and claim soak via Gerold (kneeling a Mime as Kingsguard).
Other Green Dreams options include Kingsroad, Gilly and of course the Corsairs.

Going back to Kris' question, the Birds still remain as Sam draw and to bully seasons as well as cheap stealth characters
Mance remains as 3 cost tri-con with the King trait - very rarely he may use his ability to blank Bear Island, a winter Kingsroad etc.

The whole deck is deliberately janky because it's designed to leverage convoluted interactions - it's a fun build in case it's not clear.
The set-up is poor, 3-4 cards usually, helped by shadows but hindered by a lack of streets and seas as the character base is a mess.
Below is how this fun build has evolved.


Deck Built with CardGameDB.com GoT Deckbuilder

Song of Fire Jank

House (1)
House Lannister (Core) x1

Agenda (1)
A Song of Fire (FaI) x1

Character (33)
King Joffrey's Guard (TWot5K) x1
Ser Gerold Hightower (HtS) x1
Ser Jaime Lannister (TK) x1
Gold Cloaks (AToT) x3
Cersei Lannister (AToT) x1
Margaery Tyrell (AToTT) x1
Mance Rayder (RotO) x1
Ser Arys Oakheart (PotS) x1
Varys (SaS) x1
Summer Sea Corsair (RotK) x3
Ygritte (THtW) x1
Qhorin Halfhand (LoW) x1
Jon Snow (Core) x1
Ghost (Core) x1
Janos Slynt (THtW) x1
Janos's Conspirator (THtW) x3
Campfire Mime (RoR) x3
Coldhands (THtW) x1
Samwell Tarly (TRS) x1
Old Bear's Crow (TGM) x1
Carrion Bird (ASoS) x3
Tommen Baratheon (FaI) x1
Gilly (RoW) x1

Location (13)
The Iron Throne (LotR) x1
Lannisport Brothel (Core) x1
Lion's Gate (ASoS) x1
The Kingsroad 29 (FaI) x3
The Goldroad (LotR) x3
The Roseroad (KotStorm) x3
River Row (QoD) x1

Event (6)
Dissension (QoD) x3
Green Dream (FaI) x3

Attachment (8)
Widow's Wail (LotR) x1
First Ranger (TBC) x1
Black Raven (ASoS) x3
Pyromancer's Cache (TWot5K) x3

Plot (8)
A Time for Ravens (ACoS) x1
A Song of Summer (ASoS) x1
Forgotten Plans (KotStorm) x1
The Songs of Bael the Bard (AKitN) x1
Betrayal at the Wall (THTW) x1
Cersei's Scheme (TPoL) x1
Retaliation! (ASoSilence) x1
Valar Morghulis (Core) x1


It goes without saying that the whole Trait manipulation idea has been wrongly executed due to me missing the "then" in Liom's Gate.
After thinking about it more, trait manipulation should obviously be

Targaryen
Linked Advisor + Dragon Lore + Balerion + Copper Link + Dissension
QoD Dragons + QoD Dany + Rhaegar's Harp (Copper Link adding more Dragons)
Daario + Jorah + recursion (To Be A Dragon, Recruitment, Blood Magic)

How to actually gel such an ambitious concept into a deck is another matter...
Feels super janky but potentially powerful with the right ingredients

Yeah, Lion's Gate was an embarrassing mistake best shelved and forgotten.