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Martell Quentyn

Martell
Submitted by: CasusBelli
Submitted: Apr 17 2014 11:06 PM
Views: 2652
Last updated: Apr 18 2014 03:55 AM
Category: Martell
Deck Name: Martell Quentyn
Deck Contents: Total Cards (60)

House (0)
House Martell

Agenda (0)

Plot (7)
Summoned by the Conclave (AHA) x1
Wildfire Assault (Core) x1
Take Them by Surprise (LoW) x1
To the Spears! (PotS) x1
Twist of Fate (APS) x1
Men of Pride (THoBaW) x1
Retaliation! (ASoSilence) x1

Character (34)
The Viper's Bannermen (PotS) x3
The Red Viper (PotS) x3
Arianne Martell (PotS) x1
Darkstar (PotS) x1
Quentyn Martell (VD) x3
Ser Gerris Drinkwater (CD) x1
Ser Archibald Yronwood (CD) x1
Ser Cletus Yronwood (TCC) x1
Ser Arys Oakheart (PotS) x1
Obara Sand (TWoW) x1
Sarella Sand (PotS) x1
Ellaria Sand (FaI) x1
Spy from Starfall (SoW) x3
Ser Jaime Lannister (TK) x1
Coldhands (THtW) x1
Maester Aemon (Core) x1
The Bastard of Godsgrace (EB) x1
Lost Spearman (MotM) x3
Greenblood Merchant (ARotD) x3
Refugee of the Citadel (RoW) x3

Location (19)
The Scourge (ODG) x1
Lost Oasis (AToT) x3
Water Garden (PotS) x3
Palace Fountains (PotS) x3
Summer Sea (Core) x3
Street of Steel (Core) x1
Shadowblack Lane (Core) x1
Street of Sisters (Core) x1
River Row (QoD) x1
Flea Bottom (TGM) x1
Street of Silk (LotR) x1

Attachment (4)
Oberyn's Guile (MotA) x1
Taste for Blood (PotS) x3

Event (3)
He Calls It Thinking (PotS) x3

Graphs:
Sample Hand Reload
Other Information Income on Plot Cards: 4, 3, 5, 3, 5, 4, 4
Average Plot Income: 4.000
Number of deck cards providing income: 3
Average deck cards income: 1.000
Number of cards providing influence: 3


9 Comments

Out of interest, why Maester Aemon rather than a cheap unique Martell (Myles and knight boosting Myrcella are the 2 possibilities that spring to mind)?


1)deck has a very demanding gold curve
2)bannermen are redundant in a quentyn deck

so : change to burning or venomous blade.from there you can add some low costs like carrions,dornish paramours/house messengers.you may also add a ghaston engine (doran,2nd arianne,edric,manwoody) or a summer suite (summer ellaria,sam,gilly,kingsroads).these should make the deck flow a little better.

on the plot front taken by surprise is too risky,i suggest song of summer if you go the summer route.twist of fate is rather moot too,go with forgotten plans or breaking and entering.hope these help.
So this was my first post
I made a mistake by pressing "submit" without processing the text that I had written first for it
I realised my mistake and re-submitted with text in the very next identical "Martell Aggro-Control" thread here
I then sent a message to the moderator to please remove this thread as I did not know how
As this thread has now had replies (not the other), I have now edited the post, adding the same text above
Hopefully, that gives some context to what was before just a decklist

Out of interest, why Maester Aemon rather than a cheap unique Martell (Myles and knight boosting Myrcella are the 2 possibilities that spring to mind)?


I think they are both fine choices
Myles because he fits with Spies, Merchants and Scourge
Myrcella because she's a cost 1 bicon and boosts 4 knights (Quentyn, Archie, Cletus, Aerys)
Although intrigue is not a great issue in this build with the Spies

Aemon was a left-over from a Maesters/Summer sub-theme that it used to run
With Refugees, I added Maesters of the Sun (which triggers Quentyn), Myles, At the Gates, Citadel Law
With Ellaria and Maesters of the Sun, I added Time for Ravens, 1 White Raven, Song of Summer, Kingsroads
With Winter becoming more popular, I wanted the Summer to be simply a nice bonus, not a crucial element
I however eschewed it for the brutality of the listed 2-claim plots - Maesters/Summer seemed a bit too cutesy

I think I kept Aemon due to worry of 2-claim (with Viper, he suits Thirst for Blood and I also run Twist of Fate)
Myles has nice synergy with Merchants and Scourge but his usefulness is situational and he is cost 2 STR 1
I also have 15 other characters that trigger the first Quentyn's agenda ability - so is this too little?
Thanks for the pointer, vonWibble - I will seriously consider Myles instead of Aemon in this build

1)deck has a very demanding gold curve
2)bannermen are redundant in a quentyn deck

so : change to burning or venomous blade.from there you can add some low costs like carrions,dornish paramours/house messengers.you may also add a ghaston engine (doran,2nd arianne,edric,manwoody) or a summer suite (summer ellaria,sam,gilly,kingsroads).these should make the deck flow a little better.

on the plot front taken by surprise is too risky,i suggest song of summer if you go the summer route.twist of fate is rather moot too,go with forgotten plans or breaking and entering.hope these help.


Thank you for your feedback which is much appreciated
However here is my reasoning

The deck has 15 cost 0 economy locations (and Flea Bottom works with Quentyn)
It also has 15 low cost characters (3 cost 0, 7 cost 1, 5 cost 2)
With aggressive mulligans, this build has 4-6 card set-ups to offset its high end characters
In practice, neither Viper or Bannerman seem to be that difficult to play (Darkstar never played)

Bannermen are there as an answer to burn which the build otherwise dies to (only Merchants are STR 1)
4 cards that bypass Quentyn's draw cap is surely icing? (it was hard passing on Harmen due to Ally trait!)
It's the agenda's draw cap that made me pass on Paramours (Spies are just better with Merchants)
Messengers (like Scavengers) are surely more for KotHH with the coming-into-play effect not set-up friendly?
Burning is also for KotHH (surely it negates Quentyn's benefit?)

I did consider Venomous Blade but it seemed like a "win more" on the losing theme
Unlike Bannermen, it doesn't help against Targ burn (Dragon Thief, Incinerate)
If I went down that route, I would use Alchemist Shops not Oasis, Poisoned Knife, Rusted Sword etc
In the end, I didn't like the jankiness of a Weapons build, surely a side benefit of Venemous Blade?

If I were to change the Bannermen, what do you think about Orphans?
They would make set-ups even more amazing
However, you have no real answers to Dragonpit or other burn decks without the Bannermen

I'm not a fan of Ghaston outside of KottH control (it's stall just like Burning, though it has other benefits)
I've experimented with Summers as an optional upgrade but feel the meta is against relying on Summer

3 copies of Viper + Oasis makes for a devastating turn 1 Take Them by Surprise quite often, kneeling 3 etc
I do agree against Greyjoy especially, it must be played carefully (usual turn 1 play is Conclave for Quentyn)


I did consider Breaking and Entering but consider it more an opener for PBtT
It's gold is less than the 3 claim 2 plots I have and played later as it will be, it has far less value

Forgotten Plans is a good idea and makes most of my decks
But to include it would mean losing a 2 claim plot
Also apart from KotHH First Snow into RBD, it will be hit and miss hitting the key plots (Fear of Winter etc)
In the end, I opted for the aggression and proxy card advantage of a 2 claim plot

I have a question - what did you mean by "Twist of Fate is moot"?
I thought with Quentyn, Thirst, Guile, it was a clever choice - what's wrong with it here?
I even play Aemon and any intrigue 1 claims are replenished by Quentyn
Is there something I'm missing?


Again, both vonWibble and Icarus, thank you for very much for posting feedback - it is much appreciated

So this was my first post
I made a mistake by pressing "submit" without processing the text that I had written first for it
I realised my mistake and re-submitted with text in the very next identical "Martell Aggro-Control" thread here
I then sent a message to the moderator to please remove this thread as I did not know how
As this thread has now had replies (not the other), I have now edited the post, adding the same text above
Hopefully, that gives some context to what was before just a decklist



I think they are both fine choices
Myles because he fits with Spies, Merchants and Scourge
Myrcella because she's a cost 1 bicon and boosts 4 knights (Quentyn, Archie, Cletus, Aerys)
Although intrigue is not a great issue in this build with the Spies

Aemon was a left-over from a Maesters/Summer sub-theme that it used to run
With Refugees, I added Maesters of the Sun (which triggers Quentyn), Myles, At the Gates, Citadel Law
With Ellaria and Maesters of the Sun, I added Time for Ravens, 1 White Raven, Song of Summer, Kingsroads
With Winter becoming more popular, I wanted the Summer to be simply a nice bonus, not a crucial element
I however eschewed it for the brutality of the listed 2-claim plots - Maesters/Summer seemed a bit too cutesy

I think I kept Aemon due to worry of 2-claim (with Viper, he suits Thirst for Blood and I also run Twist of Fate)
Myles has nice synergy with Merchants and Scourge but his usefulness is situational and he is cost 2 STR 1
I also have 15 other characters that trigger the first Quentyn's agenda ability - so is this too little?
Thanks for the pointer, vonWibble - I will seriously consider Myles instead of Aemon in this build



Thank you for your feedback which is much appreciated
However here is my reasoning

The deck has 15 cost 0 economy locations (and Flea Bottom works with Quentyn)
It also has 15 low cost characters (3 cost 0, 7 cost 1, 5 cost 2)
With aggressive mulligans, this build has 4-6 card set-ups to offset its high end characters
In practice, neither Viper or Bannerman seem to be that difficult to play (Darkstar never played)

Bannermen are there as an answer to burn which the build otherwise dies to (only Merchants are STR 1)
4 cards that bypass Quentyn's draw cap is surely icing? (it was hard passing on Harmen due to Ally trait!)
It's the agenda's draw cap that made me pass on Paramours (Spies are just better with Merchants)
Messengers (like Scavengers) are surely more for KotHH with the coming-into-play effect not set-up friendly?
Burning is also for KotHH (surely it negates Quentyn's benefit?)

I did consider Venomous Blade but it seemed like a "win more" on the losing theme
Unlike Bannermen, it doesn't help against Targ burn (Dragon Thief, Incinerate)
If I went down that route, I would use Alchemist Shops not Oasis, Poisoned Knife, Rusted Sword etc
In the end, I didn't like the jankiness of a Weapons build, surely a side benefit of Venemous Blade?

If I were to change the Bannermen, what do you think about Orphans?
They would make set-ups even more amazing
However, you have no real answers to Dragonpit or other burn decks without the Bannermen

I'm not a fan of Ghaston outside of KottH control (it's stall just like Burning, though it has other benefits)
I've experimented with Summers as an optional upgrade but feel the meta is against relying on Summer

3 copies of Viper + Oasis makes for a devastating turn 1 Take Them by Surprise quite often, kneeling 3 etc
I do agree against Greyjoy especially, it must be played carefully (usual turn 1 play is Conclave for Quentyn)


I did consider Breaking and Entering but consider it more an opener for PBtT
It's gold is less than the 3 claim 2 plots I have and played later as it will be, it has far less value

Forgotten Plans is a good idea and makes most of my decks
But to include it would mean losing a 2 claim plot
Also apart from KotHH First Snow into RBD, it will be hit and miss hitting the key plots (Fear of Winter etc)
In the end, I opted for the aggression and proxy card advantage of a 2 claim plot

I have a question - what did you mean by "Twist of Fate is moot"?
I thought with Quentyn, Thirst, Guile, it was a clever choice - what's wrong with it here?
I even play Aemon and any intrigue 1 claims are replenished by Quentyn
Is there something I'm missing?


Again, both vonWibble and Icarus, thank you for very much for posting feedback - it is much appreciated


i said bannermen where redundant cause 1)i dont think burn will be prevalent anymore 2)you actually want to lose challenges.with them on the field you make your opponent not attack at all.

burning and ghaston are indeed stall but they each serve a very unique purpose.burning makes an overcommiting opponent sad + there are games you absolutely dont want to lose intrigue.ghaston saves non-duplicate uniques that win you the game (arianne,viper) preemptively before valar and makes a game in which they have little resources an unwinnable uphill battle for them.

venomous is really good by itself,it doesnt need the janky weapon suite.it has so many targets its not even funny.but its really a metacall and there's no meta for now.

i dont understand why the loss of a 2 claim is so important.quentyn of manning+bannermen is a thing of the past.you win through renown+arianne claim raising and unopposed nowdays.plans saves your ass in many matchups (including the dreaded threat from the north turn with aegon).

as for twist of fate,they will go 3 military with 1 claim (most of the times you dont want to kill 3 guys)or 3 intrigue with 2 claim (crippling your hand and making any earlier hand advantage gains rather pointless).unless you plan on timing it to win initiative and attak first?this is difficult and plays against the norm of what your deck tries to do,which makes it actually more possible to work? ;p .i'm not sure about that,needs playtest.i just adore breaking and entering as it puts even more pressure on them than any other 2-claim.its in every lanni/martel deck i make,unless i play cities/rivers.

as for the aemon discussion i'm all for it,i use him too along maesters of the sun.they make military pointless while you filter or increase your hand.
Thank you, Icarus, for your sage advice (as with other threads)
I've indeed heeded most of it when concept is not compromised
Testing it, your ideas have indeed improved it - so many thanks

Firstly, you acknowledge that Quentyn has an awful game against burn
Sadly I feel Dragonpit is very strong and Summer helps Targ even more
The deck needs answers to Targ and that's why the Bannermen stayed
Against burn, Thirst for Blood duped Viper and Bannerman are win cons

I went back to my prior Maesters/Summer build but made themes very minor
5 Maesters (Aemon, Myles, 3 Maesters of the Sun) to support At The Gates (for Aemon in turn 2 with Conclave for Quentyn turn 1)
5 Summer (White Raven, Ellaria, 3 Maesters of the Sun) to support A Time for Ravens (Summer is a nice to have but not essential)

I extended the icon control of Scourge, Merchants and Spies with Myles (thank you, vonWibble for that pointer)
The weenies were non-negotiable as deck concept: I wanted to build a deck to leverage the new amazing Spies

I removed Sarella and Obara (their stealth duplicates Oasis) for Harmen Uller's renown
Despite his Ally trait, holding 7 cards in hand is so easy with Quentyn and Bannermen
Maesters of the Sun protects renown against discarders Aerys, Varys, Jorah and Daario

I took your advice on Take Them By Surprise; however I opted for Game of Thrones instead of Breaking & Entering
I just feel Breaking & Entering (and Frey Hospitality) are Power Behind the Throne plots as they are double-edged
With Merchants adding to the 4 intrigue renown characters, A Game of Thrones serves as a mini To the Spears turn
Also with Spies in play, I win Intrigue challenges in attack and defence against most Houses

The build feels fine going first (my preference with Oasis, Vengeful stands after a loss) or second, something I like a lot
I wonder if I should play Betrayal at the Wall? (I'd prefer To the Spears or Forgotten Plans as 8th plot if it lasts that long)
My worry is the deck has no reset - I think in this build, I can get away with it but don't have the experience to judge this
Losing Wildfire also removes how I kill Quentyn but I am happy with not worrying about Military (also delays At the Gates)
Is not having a reset a mistake - please advise?

Anyway, here is how the build has evolved (much of it is a reversion to a prior iteration, stripped bare to minor sub-themes)

Deck Built with CardGameDB.com GoT Deckbuilder

Quentyn Bannermen

House (0)
House Martell

Agenda (0)

Character (33)
The Viper's Bannermen (PotS) x3
The Red Viper (PotS) x3
Arianne Martell (PotS) x1
Darkstar (PotS) x1
Ser Jaime Lannister (TK) x1
Quentyn Martell (VD) x3
Ser Gerris Drinkwater (CD) x1
Ser Archibald Yronwood (CD) x1
Ser Cletus Yronwood (TCC) x1
Ser Arys Oakheart (PotS) x1
Harmen Uller (PotS) x1
Ellaria Sand (FaI) x1
Maester of the Sun (ASoS) x3
Maester Aemon (Core) x1
Maester Myles (AHM) x1
Spy from Starfall (SoW) x3
The Bastard of Godsgrace (EB) x1
Lost Spearman (MotM) x3
Greenblood Merchant (ARotD) x3

Location (19)
The Scourge (ODG) x1
Lost Oasis (AToT) x3
Water Garden (PotS) x3
Palace Fountains (PotS) x3
Summer Sea (Core) x3
Street of Steel (Core) x1
Shadowblack Lane (Core) x1
Street of Sisters (Core) x1
River Row (QoD) x1
Flea Bottom (TGM) x1
Street of Silk (LotR) x1

Event (3)
He Calls It Thinking (PotS) x3

Attachment (5)
Oberyn's Guile (MotA) x1
Taste for Blood (PotS) x3
Black Raven (ASoS) x1

Plot (7)
Summoned by the Conclave (AHA) x1
At the Gates (GotC) x1
A Time for Ravens (ACoS) x1
Retaliation! (ASoSilence) x1
Game of Thrones (LotR) x1
To the Spears! (PotS) x1
Forgotten Plans (KotStorm) x1


Many thanks for your advice, Icarus
If anybody wants to add to the deck's evolution, please feel free!
[EDITED: repeat post]
as good as dragonpit is,its just the go-to build for targ now that kothh is crippled (with the excitement of aegon+threat as a devastating play anyone would like to try,including me!).which means in turn that more tunnels will be played,which got much support in the latest circle but got elbowed out of competition due to the meta (bungled into rally cry in all kothh decks).so let me just say again that terminal burn will be scarce,as dragonpit tends to burn to open up challenge opportunities most of the time.only time will tell though.

on not having reset....i ve done it many times before,but 8/10 it felt wrong.without wildfire you are waiting for them to make your deck complete.if you do play it that way though,test enough to optimize playing the deck without quentyn being active.

as for going first,anyone experienced enough against quentyn will make you go first if they win initiative,so triple lost oasis can be rather good but other than that i have no advice.

quentyn has some inherent problems (burn,knight hate,vargo hoat) but tends to excel in many matchups.its a meta deck really.the important thing to do is recognise the different pace some of your choices give you (bannermen VS burning,lost oasis VS ghaston etc),learn how to make the best out of martel's cardpool and have it ready for when the opportunity arises.play tunnels until then ;P
Yes, you were totally right - I really need the Wildfire, both as a Quentyn kill and a reset
If I were to play the above build, I'd swap Wildfire for Time of Ravens (as Summer is an afterthought)


So I made this and a sequence of other decisions, ending up with a whole new Quentyn build
Which I suspect you will gloat is very much like what you advised initially!


Deck Built with CardGameDB.com GoT Deckbuilder

Quentyn Blade

House (1)
House Martell (Core) x1

Agenda (0)

Character (30)
The Red Viper (APS) x1
Arianne Martell (PotS) x1
Darkstar (PotS) x1
Beric Dondarrion (IG) x1
Ser Jaime Lannister (TK) x1
Lady Stoneheart (MotM) x1
Quentyn Martell (VD) x2
Ser Gerris Drinkwater (CD) x1
Ser Archibald Yronwood (CD) x1
Ser Cletus Yronwood (TCC) x1
Ser Arys Oakheart (PotS) x1
Harmen Uller (PotS) x1
Obara Sand (TWoW) x1
Sarella Sand (PotS) x1
Ellaria Sand (FaI) x1
Coldhands (THtW) x1
Maester Aemon (Core) x1
Maester Myles (AHM) x1
Spy from Starfall (SoW) x3
Greenblood Merchant (ARotD) x3
Myrcella Lannister (KotS) x1
The Bastard of Godsgrace (EB) x1
Lost Spearman (MotM) x3

Location (20)
The Scourge (ODG) x1
Lost Oasis (AToT) x3
Sunspear Tourney Grounds (ODG) x1
Water Garden (PotS) x3
Palace Fountains (PotS) x3
Summer Sea (Core) x3
Street of Steel (Core) x1
Shadowblack Lane (Core) x1
Street of Sisters (Core) x1
River Row (QoD) x1
Flea Bottom (TGM) x1
Street of Silk (LotR) x1

Event (3)
He Calls It Thinking (PotS) x3

Attachment (7)
Oberyn's Guile (MotA) x1
Taste for Blood (PotS) x3
Venomous Blade (TBoBB) x3

Plot (7)
Summoned by the Conclave (AHA) x1
Wildfire Assault (Core) x1
At the Gates (GotC) x1
Forgotten Plans (KotStorm) x1
Retaliation! (ASoSilence) x1
Game of Thrones (LotR) x1
To the Spears! (PotS) x1


Yes, I'm going to experiment with your Venomous Blade
Culling characters meant that I best change my Viper
The success of Game of Thrones (especially with Merchants) encouraged me to add 2 more Intrigue Renown characters
The tri-con Beric should have been in the build anyway with To the Spears

The hard decision was whether to go for Rush (3 Former Champions) or Control (3 stealthy Sands + Sunspear Tourney)
While the Former Champions is again ideal for To The Spears, it will mean less targets for Quentyn, Oasis, Thinking etc
Also with 7 Stealth characters +3 Oasis, the opponent faces a lose-lose; defend and I stealth past or attack into Quentyn
Like the lose-lose decision over initiative, I'm a big fan of only leaving bad options

The Spies (with the Merchants and Myles) continue to shine, shutting down Intrigue wins so that I can focus on other attacks

I don't like the fact that this build has zero game against burn so I feel playing "Quentyn Blade" is definitely a meta call
Whilst Venomous Blade is definitely more fun (bringing out the Bannermen is too brutal), I think it's probably less safe a choice

One thing is sure, Icarus - this Venomous Blade build destroys Tunnels (the build you helped fine tune in the other thread)
Dragonpit > Quentyn Blade > Tunnels > Dragonpit

I think i would recommend friends to play the Bannermen build above this post (with Wildfire for Ravens) because of its versatility
its true i tend to play overly focused decks that win more times the matchups they should but have auto-losses against their bad matchups.i'm not experienced (or good enough for that matter) to play all-around decks.i like this stealth+oasis appoach,telling your opp "play first i win,play second you lose" kind of thing.the only changes i would maybe make to this are -sunspear grounds and 1 limited for 2 condemned by the council/nightmares/choosing the spear