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Olenna’s Cunning



  • Type: Event
  • Faction: Tyrell (Loyal)
  • Cost: 2
  • Reaction: After you win an [Intrigue] or [Power] challenge, the losing opponent names a cardtype (character, location, attachment, or event). Search your deck for a card with a different cardtype, reveal it, and add it to your hand. Shuffle your deck.
  • Quantity: 1
  • Number: 196
  • Illustrator: Thomas Denmark
Want to build a deck using this card? Check out the A Game of Thrones 2nd Edition Deck Builder!
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14 Comments

Do I have to resolve this card when used?

Can I choose not to "find" any card?

 

Reason - I wanted to protect myself from Seen in Flames and have empty hand.

 

I think it should be possible but need clarification.

Well, actions, reactions, and interrupts are always optional unless marked as forced, so either it's possible to pay for an event card without triggering its ability, or there's an additional stipulation with event cards forcing you to trigger the ability if you're going to choose to pay for it in the first place. Playing a blank event card might not also fit into any timing structure. My guess is that you have to trigger the ability on an event.

Playing a pseudo-blank event card just so it was played is not legal because the ability rules on the first rules text page.

 

Reactions are a sub-type of card ability
"A card ability can only be initiated if its effect has the potential to change the game state. This potential is assessed Without taking into account the consequences of the cost payment or any other ability interactions"

In this situation it looks strongly like a violation of that rule, just because you want the cost payment (getting rid of your card) to prevent an other-ability-interaction (Seen in Flames), rather than doing any inherent work itself if you're not bothering to make any real use of Olenna's card draw at all.

 

Ironically enough, as you're wanting to waste a card without a meaningful activation to prevent Seen in Flames, this same rule I quoted stops a Seen in Flames being used against a 0-card hand. Because "Attempting to look at an empty hand would not change anything" (official answer) despite the side-effect from a different card like Melisandre being on board, thus Seen in Flames can't be legally played.
http://www.cardgamed...-an-empty-hand/

So how about if opponent named "character" and I have only characters in my deck. Event triggered, opponent named type but only after this step it resolved as impossible. Is it not too late?

 

For those curious. I took Maiden and Bear and since I was FP i emptied my hand anyway.

from the rules reference under search:

 

A player is not obliged to find the object of a search effect, even if the searched cards contain a card that meets the eligibility requirements of the search.

 

So you in this case you can play olennas cunning, resolve it and and decide to not find something.

ojimijam is correct - here you can trigger Olennas, search, and fail to find. You will still have searched your deck (importantly: shuffled it) - you still had an effect. The rules specifically provide you with an out, telling you that while searching, you are not obligated to find the object of your search (Even if it exists).

ojimijam is correct - here you can trigger Olennas, search, and fail to find. You will still have searched your deck (and shuffled it) - you still had an effect. The rules specifically provide you with an out, telling you that while searching, you are not obligated to find the object of your search (Even if it exists).

Searching your own deck and not drawing a card doesn't have any effect at all on game state. So it would hinge on if each deck shuffle counts as changing the game state by itself. It might or it might not, I'd probably lean 60-40 or 70-30 on it.

 

If a card's text is optional, it does not mean that you can play the card, do nothing, and ignore the rule that the card cannot be played if it did nothing of any consequence.
If it said "Gain +1 strength on target and search your deck for a character, you may put it into play" then the +1 strength would guarantee that even when you do-nothing using your optional search, the card passes the board-state test. By itself a search passed and nothing else is questionable.

Shuffling a deck does change the game state. You could clearly play an effect that said only "Shuffle your deck".

It's also arguable that simply searching your deck - whether you find something or not - changes the game state because hidden information is revealed to a player.

It's also arguable that simply searching your deck - whether you find something or not - changes the game state because hidden information is revealed to a player.

That part certainly does not change the game state itself in any meaningful way, because Olenna's Cunning makes you shuffle your deck, preventing you from actually gaining any new insight on your deck's ordering and your deck's content was already information readily available in 99.9% of situations

-Your own deck-list should be public info to you, and every card that has entered your hand you have seen, and your discard pile and your whole dead pile are both face-up, by process of elimination you already know exactly what cards are left in your deck.

 

The shuffle, on the other hand, readily changes the game state for sure for Tyrell, for example you could have Bear and Maiden Fair and gotten 5 terrible cards visible, putting the max 3 on bottom and knowing your next 2 would be bad draws. Using an Olenna's Cunning after you win a challenge as a chance to shuffle so that your next 2 draws will have changed would be a different game state, so I'd agree with istaril completely and say definitely legal for Olenna's Cunning.

Photo
PatrickHaynes
Sep 08 2015 04:56 AM

Actually as far as game state is concerned, your deck is hidden information to all players, including yourself. Although it is true that at any time you should know what cards are in your deck via process of elimination, you are not actually allowed to look through your deck during the game, thus making it hidden information. As such and effect that would allow you to look at it is revealing hidden information to a player and thus changing the game state, as is the shuffling of the deck, as Istaril pointed out. So both halves, the searching and the shuffling, change the game state, thus allowing you to play the event.

That part certainly does not change the game state itself in any meaningful way, because Olenna's Cunning makes you shuffle your deck, preventing you from actually gaining any new insight on your deck's ordering and your deck's content was already information readily available in 99.9% of situations

-Your own deck-list should be public info to you, and every card that has entered your hand you have seen, and your discard pile and your whole dead pile are both face-up, by process of elimination you already know exactly what cards are left in your deck..

Well you could search your whole deck for the whole purpose of figuring what card is face-down under Arya!

Theres a rule for that already:

 

Some abilities put cards into play facedown. A facedown
card has no inherent attributes other than “facedown
card,” but it may be granted attributes by the card ability
that put it into play.
 
A player may look at the identity of any facedown
card that is in play and under his or her control.
    • hop likes this

 

Theres a rule for that already:

 

Some abilities put cards into play facedown. A facedown
card has no inherent attributes other than “facedown
card,” but it may be granted attributes by the card ability
that put it into play.
 
A player may look at the identity of any facedown
card that is in play and under his or her control.

 

u can see what card is facedown? i assumed u cannot and i never looked at it during play :(