Grossly overpowered with the current cardpool being so limited. Once in play he's almost impossible to counter.

Other than Ice, sea stone chair, tears it lys, put to the sword
Milk of the poppy, ghaston grey, things I do for love,

Filthy Accusations, Marched to the Wall, Fortified Position, Varys, Melisandre, Shireen, any character with Stealth or a Throwing Axe, Tywin, Areo Hotah, the occasional Like Warm Rain, the Seastone Chair,  ...

Yes but...

- put to the sword: really hard to trigger while Bob is in play

- marched to the wall: extremely hard to march 1 character. especially with Bob in play.

- throwing axe: nearly impossibile to trigger on Bob

All the other cards are quite good to take more and more board control even when Bob (or another big guy) is in play.

Huh. This discussion seems odd to me. I mean, at a time when a lot of people are talking about the high-cost named characters not being worth the investment because there are so many ways to deal with them, we're also seeing a discussion about a high-cost character that cannot be dealt with at all.

As for Throwing Axe and PttS being really hard to trigger while Bob is in play, doesn't the fact that they are really hard to trigger for opposite reasons come into it? Use both, then:

1. If they don't defend your Throwing Axe attacker with Bob, use PttS.

2. If they do defend your Throwing Axe attacker with Bob and lose, use Throwing Axe.

3. If they do defend your Throwing Axe attacker with Bob and win, they've "wasted" him as an attacker and don't get any use of out Intimidate at all.

lol Bob wasted. so fun.

Anyway, I was more referring to the 4th scenario:

- Bob use intimidate and kneels all the remaining unknelt* characters

But you are not wrong, even if you cannot actually trigger the Axe it makes pressure on the opponent.

* because there are no standing characters, only characters who are not knelt for some reason against Bara

lol Bob wasted. so fun.

 

Anyway, I was more referring to the 4th scenario:

 

- Bob use intimidate and kneels all the remaining unknelt* characters

 

But you are not wrong, even if you cannot actually trigger the Axe it makes pressure on the opponent.

 

* because there are no standing characters, only characters who are not knelt for some reason against Bara

Note that Intimidate can only kneel one target character, not all of them (unless all = one)

Note that Intimidate can only kneel one target character, not all of them (unless all = one)

It was a figure of speech. 

Anyway, I was more referring to the 4th scenario:

 

- Bob use intimidate and kneels all the remaining unknelt* characters

I suppose. I would argue that if the problem with Bob being so powerful is based on the idea that the opponent never gets a challenge off because all of his characters are knelt, that's not Bob being over-powered, per se. It's Baratheon kneel as a deck archetype that is over-powered.

'Cause let's face it: If the goal is to take care of Bob and you are playing Greyjoy, you should probably be able to find a way to attack first.

Playing as Lannister I've found the only way is Tears of Lys. As soon as Maester Cressen comes out Milk of the Poppy is useless. I've yet to have any success with The Tickler. My point earlier is that I have to assemble my deck around dealing with Robert Baratheon rather than a more generic House.

If the Bara player gets a good board and dupes Robert, it can be difficult to deal with him, especially if you're not drawing ideally. This will happen sometimes and can be frustrating, especially if they also have the Red Keep and Mel in operation. However, I think Lanni is one of the better factions against Bara, and your deck should have a few ways to deal with it:

* Tear of Lys - It is generally quite easy to win Intrigue challenges with Lanni, and even easier against Bara. Most Lanni decks should have 2-3 copies.

* Put to the Sword - With Tywin, Jaime and the Hound, you will normally have a few opportunities to win a Military challenge by 5 strength, and will normally be able to pay for it with extra gold generated by Tywin or Tyrion. Most of my Lanni decks run 2 copies.

* Milk of the Poppy - I have noticed that some people aren't running Milk now, but I still run x2 in most decks, which is especially important against Bara match ups. If you can, maybe delay playing Milk for a round or two so that Cressen may be out of the equation by then.

* Seal of the Hand - I run at least 1 copy of this as it is a great card in itself. If I was teching for Bara, I would run x3.

* Varys - Varys is very important and is generally a little easier to play out of Lanni. Varys can win you the game and I run him x2 in most of my Lanni decks.

* Treachery/Hand's Judgement - I generally run x2 of each as they can stop events such as Seen in Flames or cancel a critical kneel or Red Keep draw.

Other notes:

* The Things I Do For Love is an awesome card but it means you will likely have to cut other events or attachments to fit it in, so think carefully about this.

* The Tickler is only a x1 in my Lanni decks as he is a solid bicon with an unreliable ability. Lanni Fealty may run him x2 out of necessity until the card pool expands.

* If the Bara player gets the ideal start and gets out ample economy, the Red Keep, Melisandre, Stannis and Robert, and you don't draw well, then you have to just accept that it will be very hard to win.

Robert is not the problem with Baratheon. It's 99% Stannis. It's so easy to get 2 kneels before your opponent gets to attack. 2 turns you're guaranteed one kneel due to Filthy Accusations. Mel can typically kneel another if she is out. Or Consolidation of Power. Or Robert's Hammer. Or Robert's intimidate. Or Shireen if you can trigger it off of Wildfire or it makes them do their military challenge last etc.

Giving Baratheon characters that get around Stannis' ability by standing in dominance not only helps fuel the Painted Table engine, but also means they will likely have more standing characters than you in every circumstances each turn.

Having the best draw engine in the game doesn't help either.

Robert may be a tiny bit overtuned for a 7 coster, but he's not significantly stronger than Dany or Tywin. All 3 are centerpieces to their respective decks, and I could argue Robert isn't even better than Balon, a 6 coster.

The real problem is the characters like Olenna and Old Bear who just suck for how expensive they are. They both feel like they are missing a keyword or 2. And Old Bear's ability makes me think FFG thought it would be much easier to not lose a single challenge on defense. That ability should have had the same trigger as the Wall. No unopposed, not no lost.

Robert is not the problem with Baratheon. It's 99% Stannis. It's so easy to get 2 kneels before your opponent gets to attack. 2 turns you're guaranteed one kneel due to Filthy Accusations. Mel can typically kneel another if she is out. Or Consolidation of Power. Or Robert's Hammer. Or Robert's intimidate. Or Shireen if you can trigger it off of Wildfire or it makes them do their military challenge last etc.

 

 

The real problem is the characters like Olenna and Old Bear who just suck for how expensive they are. They both feel like they are missing a keyword or 2. And Old Bear's ability makes me think FFG thought it would be much easier to not lose a single challenge on defense. That ability should have had the same trigger as the Wall. No unopposed, not no lost.

Firstly, Stannis says that you can't stand more than two characters not kneel all but two characters. So in order to play around you have you to change your play a bit and not kneel out entirely or yes you will be in trouble. He is a pain but not impossible to deal with (although he does really suck for NW so I get why you personally see him as so much of an issue).

As for Olenna and Old Bear if old bear's condition was not losing an unopposed he would be pretty OP. NW deck frequently don't lose an unopposed challenge and being able to drop in potentially 6 gold worth of value by doing what you already were doing seems way too good. As he is, he's a little weak but his not kneeling to defend can be relevant in some match ups. I found it was very tough to deal with in Tyrell because of the lack of stealth. An Olenna is fine if you're playing mono-tyrell. Dropping in a big character can seriously change the flow of the game.

Firstly, Stannis says that you can't stand more than two characters not kneel all but two characters. So in order to play around you have you to change your play a bit and not kneel out entirely or yes you will be in trouble. He is a pain but not impossible to deal with (although he does really suck for NW so I get why you personally see him as so much of an issue).

 

As for Olenna and Old Bear if old bear's condition was not losing an unopposed he would be pretty OP. NW deck frequently don't lose an unopposed challenge and being able to drop in potentially 6 gold worth of value by doing what you already were doing seems way too good. As he is, he's a little weak but his not kneeling to defend can be relevant in some match ups. I found it was very tough to deal with in Tyrell because of the lack of stealth. An Olenna is fine if you're playing mono-tyrell. Dropping in a big character can seriously change the flow of the game.

Sure, it doesn't kneel all but two, but the concept is about the same. Say you have 4 characters. Bara player has 4 characters, two of which are those standers in dominance.

He kneels one with Mel's ability. You now have 3 standing characters. You can either only use one in defense or offense, meaning you either have to let everything go through unopposed to attack, or you can only defend one challenge and then have no challenges of your own, or you will go into the next turn with characters already knelt.

This effectively makes you have 1 character unless you want to have fewer usable characters next turn. As soon as you cross that threshold of 2 characters, your opponent gains board advantage.

Meanwhile, he can attack with all 4 and stand all 4 each turn.

They should have made him only allow 4 to stand. Only standing 2 characters per turn is just absurd.

Agree to disagree on Old Bear.

I would never ever put him in a NW deck. Or I would do so but be very unhappy about it, like if I built a NW fealty deck. He would be overpowered if he had the same trigger as the Wall and no other text changes, but I was thinking something like the Wall's trigger, but limit it to 4 gold or something. As he stands right now he's practically unusable. The non kneeling text is kind of niche to me. He gets owned by Tears of Lys, kneel and stealth. It's a strong effect, but getting him out and the Wall out is very expensive in the one faction that doesn't have reducing locations.

Olenna is good in fealty decks, but considerably worse in banner decks. She's better than Old Bear, but that isn't saying much. She is good economy, but you could argue that economy is basically just making up for the huge tempo hit you took to play a 5 strength bicon with no keywords for 7 gold. I've seen the Olenna drop Randyll play on occasion, but it works best when you play her early on. I like her and run 2x of her in my fealty deck, but there is no doubt that she is a tier or 2 below Dany, Tywin, Robert and possibly Euron (although he's overshadowed by Balon, the best 6 coster in the game) 

Olenna is somewhere in the middle with The Red Viper and Eddard Stark. The 3 7 costers that aren't bad, but nowhere near good as the big 3.

Old Bear is irredeemable though.

I've kind of derailed this a bit, but my main point is Robert only looks too good because they crapped out on a few that seemed to be undertuned unintentionally. He isn't unhealthy for the game, in my opinion.

I'm more terrified of Tywin than Robert. At least I can tears Robert.

There's a load of nonsense written about how OP Bara Kneel is. Every single deck I play except NW has a positive win rate against it. (And it's usually the painted table outstripping the wall that's the main issue for me rather than the kneel) 

There's at least 5 Plots that are very handy against Bara.

Filthy accusations - annoyed by their constant kneeling, well kneel their Bob/Stannis in retaliation

Fortified Positions - doesn't need explaining and you should be left with blank characters more powerful than Bara.

Wildfire Assault - takes out your kneeling chuds but takes out standing Bara weenies.

Power behind the throne - it astonishes me how few decks run this. Especially good for decks with limited draw where being able to stand a key character at will is worth far more than extra gold that you have nothing useful to spend it on anyway.  

Marched to the wall - If Bara starts with 1 of the big 3 and 1 chud,this can leave the key character very exposed.  

Targ burn wipes it virtually every time.

Stark banner Greyjoy normally gets targeted kill though. Ed & Ned are virtually designed as anti-Bara tech.  

Lannister has so much economy that TTIDFL always slows down Bara more than itself, and has ambush coming out of it's ears. (Gold cloaks are especially good in this match up)  

On his own Tywin is the better 7-coster, Bob becomes better when all the Bara pieces fall into place.

i agree Old Bear is down at the bottom, but hopefully there are some tricks in the NW box to power him up. Olenna is rarely/never a card that you want to see late, but can be amazing if you can start with her.