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Varys’s Riddle
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24 Comments
Play it after your opponent has played their Pentoshi and you should be able to copy something worthwhile. Even better if you copy your opponent's Pulling the Strings. Fantastic stats too, definitely worth a look at least.
you did not read the plot correctly..only active revelead plots count...this is a melee plot...
Playing it after Trading has been played reduces the chance of hitting an economy plot, and makes it more likely that it'll hit omething usable. Revealing it when Pulling the Strings is revealed gives a greater range of plots to choose from.
I agree, it's definitely better as a melee plot though.
Cards you most want to hit with this are
Counting Coppers - if you lower their hand quickly enough then play this you are either drawing 3 cards with far more gold than them or they are top decking for a turn. Both scenarios are great.
Pulling the Strings - much tougher as they haven't necessarily played a when revealed but could provide good options
Marched to the Wall - in the scenario where you have 1 big guy out and they have 1 big guy + chud and play this, you just removed their big guy for no cost and saved the game (with 2 more gold to spend that round on filling up the board too, albeit without initiative). Unlike playing Marched yourself for the double effect, his has the advantage that if the opponent doesn't March you won't lose out either.
Valar Morghulis - facing off an opponent who has dupes on his big characters, bodyguards, or Iron Mines, and where you don't.
Oh snap, double Valar on everything and you have a massive economy advantage? That seems pretty evil.
Play it in Melee for the ability
Play it in joust for the stats.
I love the melee love we're getting.
This card is exsp. useful if you have a big guy setup and dunno if youre opponent gonna march.
Player A revelas Varys's Riddle.
Player B reveals Summer Harvest.
Player A wins initiative, chooses himself to be the first player, and chooses Summer Harvest to resolve first.
Player B triggers Summer Harvest, looks at his opponent's plot (Varys's Riddle), and defines X=5+2.
Player A triggers Varys's Riddle, and initiates the When Revealed ability on Summer Harvest as if he had just revealed it.
Player A triggers Summer Harvest (as if he controlled it), looks at his opponent's plot (Summer Harvest), and defines X=0+2 (because the printed value of X=0).
There are now two conflicting effects in place that define the X on Player B's Summer Harvest, one says X=7, the other one says X=2. The first player chooses the order in which they apply. Player A chooses X=7 to apply first, and then X=2 after that. The final result is that X onPlayer B's Summer Harvest is now 2.
If Player B ended up being the first player, he could apply the two effects in the opposite order, and end up with his Summer Harvest giving him 7 gold.
Can someone explain? as it this Plot is confusing. When I play it I can copy "When Revealed" ability on other players plots?:
1. on just revealed (active) plots?
2. or on any plot revealed in the game before? (used plots pile - in that case able to copy also my previous revealed plots?)
The text on the card suggest #1 also explanation here provided however in that case it's just roulette. Random event with zero strategy element. Because it can easily happen that no other just revealed plot have "When Revealed" ability and it will just fizzle. Even worse - it can backfire (Trading with Pentosi, Summer Harvest...). In such case the only use I can see is with the "The Rains of Castamere" Agenda.
Ok so it's a good counter to exactly 1 plot (from 60+) but with a price you have to go 1st. Ok,it is also slightly less random in Melee.
However my point stands - it's still random plot with zero strategy. How you can predict what opponent will pull? From more than 60 different plots when only about 20 of them have "When revealed" ability? That is 2 from 3 chance to fizzle. In joust. How is that not a roulette? Because you milked some strong character? What if opponent doesn't even have Confiscation?
I still think that trying to guess what opponent might play is just wishful thinking. It's not a strategy.
Well it's got solid stats, is really only vulnerable to trading, and gives you a decisive advantage if you hit an opponents utility plot (filthy, summons, confiscation, building orders, counting coppers, calling). Its downside is small, since worst comes to worst you get less gold and win initiative.
It also can let you set up only one character if your opponent sets up a chud and a big guy, since you can live without fear of being marched.
You are probably winning the game. Gaining something out of the 1 plot they can play to save a game seems great to me.
Other predictable plots this is great against (and this isn't an exhaustive list) -
Marched already mentioned
Valar when it hits - if the opponent had dupes on all their guys and Valars you get to kill them too, and then have better gold, initiative and reserve.
Filthy Accusations
Summer Harvest (though if facing a summer deck I'd usually not open with it as fear of this generally makes Calm or Song a more common choice for them)
Reinforcements (a far more popular plot nowadays as it is such a good counter to Summer Harvest)
If they are low on cards, Counting Coppers, Summons, or Building Orders
If you have a lot of characters out, Calling the Banners
If you know what you are doing, predicting opponents plots is not that hard. If they aren't running said plots, your position is even stronger, so that's great for you.
Varys's Riddle doesn't copy abilities at all. It initiates them. Get that Magic crap put of your head!
This card is awsome in the current meta: Marched to the wall, counting coppers, summer harvest, calm over westeros and even confiscation all make up for great targets. At worst, it is just a blank card with very good stats. What i love (hate?
) is that the only fact that it exists makes everyone think very carefully about their plot order
double post, please delete
Ok, so let's assume the ideal case that you know what your opponent will play. In such case what you will do is just COPY (for rules lawyer nazis = initiate) "When revealed" Plot part. I get it that in some cases it might be useful but for a price only to react to what opponent is playing. And that is very situational.
Let's summarize positives:
- it can ruin Summer harvest ... again for a price of being 1st which is usually not an advantage
- it can double discard/killing plots (March, Valar) ... whether it is an advantage is situational
- it can copy "Pulling the strings" Tyrell's very good plot ... assuming you play vs Tyrell
- it can benefit some often used plots: Confiscation, Power Behind the Throne, Calling, Calm, Summons, Reinforcement or Building orders, with the 5 gold income compared to 2-5 income of those plots + initiative ... so real advantage = 0 to 3 income, initiative
- as pointed above - it has decent stats even without regards to the ability, I give you that ... there are other plots with decent stats as well with the abilities which are not that random
Now negatives:
- it can backfire, very badly: Trading, Fallen from Favor!
- it can just fizzle without any effect - only 22 out of 55 current plots can be target of Vriddle
- with the ability it is totally dependent on what your opponent would play - you can just try to guess and then react, there is no real action from your side, only reaction ... and that last point is what bothers me the most, because guessing means you will not always guess it right (hence roulette), reacting means it is out of your hands, you're on mercy what opponent plays - that's just disgusting.
Thanks all for the ideas, as it is I would prefer another plots in my deck before Vriddle. However it might be very nice Plot to the "The Rains of Castamere" Agenda which is being prepared.
Does this hit the Interupt ability of Winter Festival?
No because that is an interrupt. Vriddle initiates "When revealed" ability only.
I don't think anyone's saying it's an autoinclude, just that it is often very strong, almost always solid, and very infrequently bad. One of the plots you mentioned as a backfire plot, Fallen From Favor, is rarely played in competitive decks that I've seen. Trading, meanwhile, is certainly still around but not as much as it was before Summer Harvest. So the question might be whether you're seeing enough Summer to pack it as a counter or whether your deck has a slot for an flexible card without a guaranteed effect. Sometimes you need all your plots for specific things and don't have a flex slot, sometimes you do. And this is going to be an absolute godsend against the Greyjoy Valar wipe, I guarantee it.
I know I'm being slow here and that it has probably been said ad nauseam; what is the final result of riddle vs S.Harvest?
and Why - SInce afaik harvest refers to printed gold production?
Thanks and apologies for 'not getting it'.
Explicitly addressed in the FAQ.
I finally know what is still buggin me about this. It is understood, but not explicitely written, that "X" is always refering to Summer Harvest, even if it is triggered by someone else, and it affects only this particular Summer Harvest. So it is NOT like the player with VR had virtually his own copy of Summer Harvest revealed, the trigger is clearly bound to the plot of the player who owns it and affects only this player. (or it would be like an empty trigger for the VR-Player, because that player has no "X".)
But what is the difference to "draw 3 cards" then? Effects that affect only the player that played the plot should not be "copied", but be triggered again (so that player would be able to draw 6 cards). Unlike Valar Morghulis, which effectively targets both players, and so it is triggered twice for both players. I am sure there is some explanation for this too, but I just don't like it. It feels wrong.