So what happens when two players use this plot at the same time and choose each other?

I can think of three possibilities:

( A ) Both players get 0 gold since they can't have 2 more than a letter

( B ) Both players get 2 gold since because X defaults to 0

( C ) Both players get infinity gold since X is X+2 which is then X+4 and so on

Edit to fix the auto-formatting of the B into a smiley and C into the copyright symbol

The answer is B. Since each plot is checking the *printed* value on the other plot, they're seeing "X" (X, as a printed value, is 0). So they each get 2 G (X+2) that turn.

Thanks for the response. But the X isn't the only thing printed as the value on the card. The When Revealed defines what X is and is also printed on the card, just not in the usual spot for the gold value. I would agree that B is probably the intent, I just think the card is poorly worded for this possibility.

The printed value of X is always defined as zero, that's why canceling your opponent's Hand's Judgment with your own costs zero gold, regardless of whatever event your opponent was originally canceled. The card is worded fine, as long as you're familiar with the specific rules mechanics of the game.

The Rules Reference page 23 says: Unless specified by a card ability or granted player choice, the letter X is always equal to 0. (emphasis mine)

This ability changes what X is.

Hand's Judgment behaves that way because it is an Interrupt and so the second one resolves before the first one even initiates.

But thank you very much for replying, because you spurred me to read more of the Rules Reference and I know my answer for sure now because of page 26 of the Rules Reference:

Any when revealed abilities on plot cards that have just been revealed must now initiate. If multiple players have When revealed abilities on their plot cards, the first player determines the order in which these abilities initiate. Resolve each when revealed ability before initiating the next.

So the first one is worth 2 gold and the second to initiate and resolve is worth 4 gold.

Edit: Well, depending on whether following printed instructions that reference other cards counts as printed. A cursory glance at the rules reference looks like that isn't specified, but I have to go to work soon, so I'll have to look more in-depth later.

If a card effect references the printed value of a card, and the printed value of a card is X, that card effect will get a 0 to work with.

The rules entry that you quoted in the beginning of your post means that unless the value of X is determined by some effect, it defaults to 0. That rules entry does not establish that the printed value of X can be determined by a player choice. Note the absence of the word "printed" in that rules entry.

The printed value of X is always treated as 0. This has been confirmed by the game developers.

The Rules Reference page 23 says: Unless specified by a card ability or granted player choice, the letter X is always equal to 0. (emphasis mine)

 

This ability changes what X is.

 

Hand's Judgment behaves that way because it is an Interrupt and so the second one resolves before the first one even initiates.

 

But thank you very much for replying, because you spurred me to read more of the Rules Reference and I know my answer for sure now because of page 26 of the Rules Reference:

Any when revealed abilities on plot cards that have just been revealed must now initiate. If multiple players have When revealed abilities on their plot cards, the first player determines the order in which these abilities initiate. Resolve each when revealed ability before initiating the next.

 

So the first one is worth 2 gold and the second to initiate and resolve is worth 4 gold.

Edit: Well, depending on whether following printed instructions that reference other cards counts as printed. A cursory glance at the rules reference looks like that isn't specified, but I have to go to work soon, so I'll have to look more in-depth later.

X can be defined as all sorts of things, but as mplain and Sokhar have both pointed out, the PRINTED value of X is 0. 

Okay, I've managed to convince myself to agree with you all. But honestly, you're arguments only spurred me to try to puzzle this out for myself rather than actually convincing me themselves.

My main problem was that the text was defining the value and was printed on the card. So shouldn't it be a printed value? Here's the reasoning I've used to convince myself to agree with you all that it is not a printed value:

The ability defining the value is printed on the card, but the effect of that ability is not. Effects are things actually happening, not words printed on a card.

I think that is compatible with the rules. That and I also looked around the site some more and see (as mplain said) that FFG had already confirmed what you all were saying for earlier similar cards, so even if I still disagreed it wouldn't matter.

Varys' Riddle has printed gold 5 so not sure where 6 comes from?

If player A reveals Varys' Riddle and player B reveals Summer Harvest:

- Player A wins initiative and chooses to be first.

- Player A triggers player B's plot first, which modifies the gold on Summer Harvest to 7.

- Player A then triggers his own plot, which modifies the gold on Summer Harvest (because the text modifies the value of X, having nothing to do with Varys' Riddle) to 2.

- There are now 2 conflicting modifiers on the same plot card (X = 2 or X = 7) so as first player, player A chooses which applies. He chooses X to be 2.

Had player A chosen to go second, player B would have the choice and Summer Harvest would almost certainly give him 7 gold.


As an aside, this is a great plot for Beggar King decks, as it is very likely it will trigger. The only way it doesn't currently is if both players reveal Summer Harvest.

Sorry but I don't understand why would Varys Riddle player have 7 gold in any case? Printed gold value is always 0 on summer harvest.

Player A revelas Varys's Riddle.

Player B reveals Summer Harvest.

Player A wins initiative, chooses himself to be the first player, and chooses Summer Harvest to resolve first.

Player B triggers Summer Harvest, looks at his opponent's plot (Varys's Riddle), and defines X=5+2.

Player A triggers Varys's Riddle, and initiates the When Revealed ability on Summer Harvest as if he had just revealed it.

Player A triggers Summer Harvest (as if he controlled it), looks at his opponent's plot (Summer Harvest), and defines X=0+2 (because the printed value of X=0).

There are now two conflicting effects in place that define the X on Player B's Summer Harvest, one says X=7, the other one says X=2. The first player chooses the order in which they apply. Player A chooses X=7 to apply first, and then X=2 after that. The final result is that X onPlayer B's Summer Harvest is now 2.

If Player B ended up being the first player, he could apply the two effects in the opposite order, and end up with his Summer Harvest giving him 7 gold.

Sorry but I don't understand why would Varys Riddle player have 7 gold in any case? Printed gold value is always 0 on summer harvest.

Pretty sure that it doesn't.

How does this card interact (if at all) with forgotten plans?

Thanks

I am very confused. When playing on Octgn and in tournaments, there were many times when my opponent won the initiative but chose me as the first player. Then they would say they still get to choose which plot "When revealed..." ability trigger first and not the FP (me). Did anyone come across something like that?

I am very confused. When playing on Octgn and in tournaments, there were many times when my opponent won the initiative but chose me as the first player. Then they would say they still get to choose which plot "When revealed..." ability trigger first and not the FP (me). Did anyone come across something like that?

 

Player A revelas Varys's Riddle.

Player B reveals Summer Harvest.

Player A wins initiative, chooses himself to be the first player, and chooses Summer Harvest to resolve first.

Player B triggers Summer Harvest, looks at his opponent's plot (Varys's Riddle), and defines X=5+2.

Player A triggers Varys's Riddle, and initiates the When Revealed ability on Summer Harvest as if he had just revealed it.

Player A triggers Summer Harvest (as if he controlled it), looks at his opponent's plot (Summer Harvest), and defines X=0+2 (because the printed value of X=0).

There are now two conflicting effects in place that define the X on Player B's Summer Harvest, one says X=7, the other one says X=2. The first player chooses the order in which they apply. Player A chooses X=7 to apply first, and then X=2 after that. The final result is that X onPlayer B's Summer Harvest is now 2.

 

If Player B ended up being the first player, he could apply the two effects in the opposite order, and end up with his Summer Harvest giving him 7 gold.

 

Varys's Riddle creates this unusual in-depth interaction between the two.

I am very confused. When playing on Octgn and in tournaments, there were many times when my opponent won the initiative but chose me as the first player. Then they would say they still get to choose which plot "When revealed..." ability trigger first and not the FP (me). Did anyone come across something like that?

1st player has to choose. Rules Reference page 16:

Priority of Simultaneous Resolution
If a single effect affects multiple players simultaneously, but the players must individually make choices
to resolve the effect, the first player chooses first, followed by the other players in player order. Once all
necessary choices have been made, the effect resolves simultaneously upon all affected entities.

• the resolution of two or more when revealed abilities, delayed effects, or forced abilities would resolve at the same time, the first player decides the order in which the abilities resolve, regardless of who controls the cards bearing the conflicting abilities.
•  two or more constant abilities and/or lasting effects cannot be applied simultaneously, the first player determines the order in which the constant abilities are applied.