This ability doesn't seem right. By the time the ability activates the cost has already been paid?

"Apply any modifiers to the cost(s)" is step 3 of marshaling a card (RRp10).
"Pay the cost" is step 4 of marshaling a card (RRp10).
"The card is marshaled/played, or the effects of the ability attempt to initiate" is step 6 of marshaling a card (RRp10).
A constant ability is any non-keyword ability whose text contains no boldface precursor defining its ability type (RRp5).
So Northern Refugee's ability is a constant ability.
A constant ability becomes active as soon as its card enters play and remains active while that card is in play (RRp5).
The phrase "enters play" refers to any time a card makes a transition from an out of play area into a play area. Marshaling a card and putting a card into play by using a card ability are two means by which a card may enter play (RRp7).
Card abilities on characters, locations, and attachments can only be initiated or affect the game from an in play area unless they specifically refer to being used from an out of play area, or require that the card be out of play for the ability to resolve (RRp2).
So Northern Refugee is out of play and its ability doesn't attempt to initiate until step 6, which is after the cost has been paid.
The cost reduction is a modifier which makes it an effect of the ability since modifiers are not listed in the first bullet point of the Effects section (RRp7) as elements that are not effects.
"The effects of the ability complete their initiation, and resolve" is step 7 of marshaling a card (RRp10).
So Northern Refugee's ability doesn't affect the cost paid since by the time the modifier is active the card has already been marshaled and paid for.
When a card's ability text refers to its own title, it is referring to itself only, and not to other copies (by title) of the card (RRp19).
So it doesn't reduce the cost of other Northern Refugees either.
So it just matters for other abilities that depend on card costs?

Self-referential cost modifiers are active while in out-of-play areas.

Don't believe me? Ask Nate!

I think you quoted the right rules but didn't quite put them together.

When a card's ability text refers to its own title, it is referring to itself only, and not to other copies (by title) of the card

Card abilities on characters, locations, and attachments can only be initiated or affect the game from an in play area unless they specifically refer to being used from an out of play area, or require that the card be out of play for the ability to resolve

Northern Refugees, given that its ability only refers to marshaling itself, requires that it be out of play for its ability to resolve.  Therefore the ability can be used from out of play.

I don't know how to ask Nate. Is there an actual published reason?

The best argument in favor of it that I can come up with would use this part of Rules Reference page 2 quoted in my earlier comment: "Card abilities on characters, locations, and attachments can only be initiated or affect the game from an in play area unless they ... require that the card be out of play for the ability to resolve."

And combine it with:

"The application or initiation of the following types of abilities is mandatory: constant abilities, when revealed abilities, forced interrupt abilities, and forced reaction abilities" (RRp2).

And:

"A card ability can only be initiated if its effect has the potential to change the game state" (RRp2).

All of that is probably sufficient, depending on the definition of "game state," which I can't find anywhere in the game's documentation even though lots of rules depend on it.

https://www.fantasyf.../contact/rules/

Simple logic: it wouldn't make any sense to put that text on that card if it then wouldn't apply. Ergo it must apply. I'm with mplain on this.

If not Lady-in-waiting wouldnt work either

Note that with a Winter plot revealed and Mance on the board,  the cost to play this card remains 1 whether you marshal or ambush it.

Okay, after a month of emails with FFG, I finally have a final word on the Constant Ability working out-of-play.

Several rules refer to the "game state," but I cannot find a definition for that term. What is the definition of "game state"? I am specifically asking this question to determine if Northern Refugee's ability can initiate before its cost is paid because of a combination of rules including: "A card ability can only be initiated if its effect has the potential to change the game state."

 

-Me

Northern Refugee’s ability is not a triggered ability, and therefore is never “initiated.” Rather, it is a constant ability with self-referential text that modifies how the card is marshaled (similar to a card like Lady-In-Waiting). Such an ability can only affect the game while the card is out of play, and is therefore active when the marshaling cost is paid: “Card abilities on characters, locations, and attachments can only be initiated or affect the game from an in play area unless they specifically refer to being used from an out of play area, or require that the card be out of play for the ability to resolve.” (RRG p.2) 

 

There is not an official rules definition of “game state,” but generally speaking it encompasses anything that’s true about the game in a given moment, including the status of cards in play and cards in out-of-play areas, as well as any modifiers on those cards and any lasting/delayed/constant effects that are active. Any effect that changes anything about those cards, modifiers, effects, etc. can be considered to “change the game state.” For example, kneeling a Rose Garden (to reduce the cost of the next Tyrell card you marshal this phase by 1) changes the game state, even you do not end up marshaling a Tyrell card; simply applying the effect is enough. An example of an effect that would not change the game state would be if you attempted to use a “choose and stand a character” effect on a character that is already standing.

 

-FFG

After checking, I see that you are absolutely correct that the word "initiate" is never used for constant abilities. This means that the following rules do not apply to constant abilities:

1. A card ability can only be initiated if its effect has the potential to change the game state. This potential is assessed without taking into account the consequences of the cost payment or any other ability interactions. (RRG p.2)

2. An ability cannot initiate (and therefore its costs cannot be paid) if the resolution of its effect will not change the game state. (RRG p.5)

 

If these two rules do not apply, then what is preventing a constant ability that does nothing from resolving while in play? And if nothing stops it from resolving while doing nothing, then "require that the card be out of play for the ability to resolve" wouldn't apply. Is there a rule that requires constant abilities to affect the game in order to activate?

 

-Me

The rule that applies is the same one I quoted earlier: abilities apply when the card is in play, unless the resolution of the ability “require[s] that the card be out of play.” Northern Refugee's ability is self-referential, meaning it applies only to itself, and modifies the cost of marshaling the card, which only applies when the card is out of play. Because the ability can only affect the game while Northern Refugee is out of play (i.e. it will never have an effect while the card is in play), it falls under the category of an ability that requires the card to be out of play to resolve. This is the same reasoning that applies to several previous cards with similar effects, such as Dothraki Outriders, Lady-in-Waiting, and City Watch. 

 

Of course, it would work differently if Northern Refugee’s ability could have an effect while the card was in play. For example, imagine if its ability were “…reduce the cost of each Wildling character you marshal by 1.” In that case, the ability could affect the game while Northern Refugee was in play (by applying to other Wildlings you marshal), and would therefore not be able to affect the game from out of play.

 

-FFG

I'm a bit confused because I don't see a rule that states that constant abilities need to affect the game to be able to resolve. I only see rules like that for preventing initiation (which as we established, doesn't apply to constant abilities).

 

The rule you quoted just states that abilities can affect the game from out of play if they can't resolve while in play. It doesn't at all define what might prevent an ability from resolving while in play. I don't see any rules that would ever prevent a constant ability from activating or resolving while in play.

Fair point, I understand what you mean. The intention is that the “require” rule covers constant abilities that cannot affect the game while in play. I will look into clarifying and/or expanding that rule in an upcoming FAQ.

 

-FFG