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Secluded Shrine



Secluded Shrine

Secluded Shrine

Type: Holding
Strength: +0
Clan: Phoenix
Shrine.
Reaction: After the conflict phase begins, choose a ring – until the end of the phase, you are considered to have that ring in your claimed ring pool.
Deck: Dynasty
Number: 12
Illustrator: Kevin Zamir Goeke
Want to build a deck using this card? Check out the Legend of the Five Rings Deck Builder!


14 Comments

Photo
Darthnazrael
Apr 13 2018 12:59 PM

What was the ruling on this card? Does it strictly matter for card effects like Solemn Scholar and Prodigy of the Waves, or does it affect universal mechanics? For example, does it block someone from declaring a conflict with that ring?

Some rulings on this card:

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A ring affected by Secluded Shrine counts towards the Imperial Favor contest.

If you use Shrine on a ring and then claim it, it only counts once.

If you use Shrine on a ring and your opponent claims it, it counts for both players.

You cannot play Know the World to switch a ring affected by Secluded Shrine if it is not actually in your claimed pool.

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In short: It is counted as being in your claimed pool, but isn't physically in your pool.

 

This is an excellent holding. It really powers up all those characters that care about claimed rings like solemn scholar and henshin disciple. Most notably: You will have less need to contest the water ring for your first conflict, opening you up to doing a ring that comes with a more tangible pay-off like earth or fire.

It is not without its downside though. Taking up a slot of your dynasty deck on a permanent basis isn't free, especially in that you already have forgotten library and kanjo district as holdings that you want to keep in play. If you do want to run all forgotten libraries, secluded shrines and kanjo district, be sure to offset this dynasty draw cost with conflict characters. The other reminder is that you still do not want to play this to make a bad card good. Your character should be playable even without having the ring in the first place.

It also acts as tech for Isawa Tadaka, since you can bypass his text box by assigning this holding to the earth ring. This holding is possibly the one you want for your Kyuden Isawa deck when you are facing a phoenix mirror. 

    • Asklepios and Curtis like this

So you "Claim" the ring, hypothetically just not physically? Does this cover toward characters who's text say "claimed", after you "claim" the ring, after the ring is "claimed" and while the ring is "claimed"?  I just want it to be clear, sorry if I sound redundant.

Yes, you add a ring to your claimed pool but the real ring is still available.

 

It will affect all things that ask you to have the ring in your claimed pool but not the cards that say "when you claim", since you never pass by that step. (There already was a clarification about this on the Know The World card). To be more clear : Henshin Disciple = yes, Asako Tsuki = no. ;)

So you "Claim" the ring, hypothetically just not physically? Does this cover toward characters who's text say "claimed", after you "claim" the ring, after the ring is "claimed" and while the ring is "claimed"?  I just want it to be clear, sorry if I sound redundant.

You don't actually claim the ring at all. Secluded Shrine will work for abilities that check to see if the ring is in your claimed ring pool (ie the state of being claimed). It does not work with anything that triggers off the verb of claiming the ring.
    • Curtis likes this

I mean this in the nicest way, so please don't take this wrong or personal lol.  I am just trying to wrap my head around this.  I am not contesting the fact that you actually claim a ring because you don't, that's why the card says "considered to have".  I however don't understand how you can "choose a ring - be considered to have that ring in your >claimed ring pool<", without the act of "claiming".  My reasoning behind that is as the verbiage claimed ring pool would require you to claim it in the first place.  Keeping in mind that this is not a real claim as the real ring stays where it is, I understand and agree with that.  On a "considered" to have level, you have ownership over the ring you choose, which can't be changed until the next round as it's not a physical ring.  If Secluded Shrine only works for cards that state specifically for example: Solemn Scholar ( If the Earth ring is in your claimed ring pool ), I'm fine with that.  Only reacting to cards that state having the specific ring in your claimed ring pool, makes sense.  Where I start to get confused is for example: Henshin Disciple (While you have claimed or are contesting ), which I've heard several times from several different people counts.  If you don't "claim" the ring then how does Henshin Disciple count and Asako Tsuki ( After the water ring is claimed ) does not? Or Prodigy of the Waves ( While the water ring is claimed ), but not Asako Tsuki?  To me the only difference is the timing as they are both triggered abilities and all 3 react to claimed rings not rings in ring pools. I think an official ruling would be nice.  Until we get one I would say nothing works with the rings you get from Secluded Shrine, except card text that reads "(while / if ) you have said ring in your ring pool - perform ability".

The text that secluded shrine offers is: You have a ring in your claimed ring pool. 

Associated with having a ring in the claimed ring pool is , that you claimed that ring. 

You don't claim it now, you don't claim it later, it has already been claimed, because the ring is in your claimed ring pool. 

 

So every effect that regards a ring being in your claimed ring pool works . 

Every reaction to after a ring being  claimed (right now), does not. Because the ring never gets claimed again , it is claimed already. 

That's why Henshin Disciple ( while ring is the claimed ring pool ) and  Prodigy of the Waves ( ring is currently claimed [in your claimed ring pool] ) work, while Asako Tsuki ( reaction to after a water ring is claimed ) does not. 

Sorry Stefan it still makes no sense to me as the cards I am describing do not say anything about claimed ring pool.  It really sounds like a contradiction.  I don't know if this helps show you guys what I'm seeing.

 

*Text straight from the cards, no alteration of what it says on the cards;

 

*Henshin Disciple - ( While you have claimed or are contesting ) nothing about claimed ring pool

*Prodigy of the Waves - ( While the water ring is claimed ) nothing about claimed ring pool

*Asako Tsuki - ( After the water ring is claimed ) nothing about claimed ring pool

 

As I read the text on any of these cards, no where does it say anything of a ring being in your claimed ring pool.  They only reference to during claiming or after having claimed.  Nor does Secluded Shrine say it only works with Actions and Constant Abilities but not Reactions.

 

On the other hand, this one and others of like verbiage make sense;

 

*Solemn Scholar - ( If the earth ring is in your claimed ring pool )

 

Like I said, it is what it is.  But can you see how it's confusing?  Hopefully I'm not the only one that see's this. lol.

From the RRG:

 

Rings

 

Rings, represented by double-sided tokens, are used to determine the type and element of conflicts. Each ring exists in one of three states, as follows:

 

Unclaimed — Each ring in the unclaimed ring pool is an unclaimed ring, and is eligible to be selected by a player as a part of the process of declaring a conflict.

 

Contested — While a conflict is resolving, the ring that has
been selected by the attacker when the conflict was declared
is placed on the attacked province. This ring is known as the contested ring.

 

Claimed — When a player wins a conflict, that player claims the contested ring and places it into his or her claimed ring pool.

 

 

 

I can see how it is confusing, because the rrg doesnt exactly say that a ring in the claimed ring pool is a claimed ring, like it says for unclaimed rings. But a ring being claimed is placed in the claimed ring pool, and exists in the state "claimed", thus it is a claimed ring.

    • Curtis likes this
Exactly, that's why I don't understand how it counts for Henshin Disciple and not Asako Tsuki.

From the RRG:   Rings   Rings, represented by double-sided tokens, are used to determine the type and element of conflicts. Each ring exists in one of three states, as follows:   Unclaimed — Each ring in the unclaimed ring pool is an unclaimed ring, and is eligible to be selected by a player as a part of the process of declaring a conflict.   Contested — While a conflict is resolving, the ring that has been selected by the attacker when the conflict was declared is placed on the attacked province. This ring is known as the contested ring.   Claimed — When a player wins a conflict, that player claims the contested ring and places it into his or her claimed ring pool.       I can see how it is confusing, because the rrg doesnt exactly say that a ring in the claimed ring pool is a claimed ring, like it says for unclaimed rings. But a ring being claimed is placed in the claimed ring pool, and exists in the state "claimed", thus it is a claimed ring.

Henshin Disciple says:  While you have claimed or are contesting
Asako Tsuki says:         After the water ring is claimed

 

So, after is different than while .

 

Henshin Disciple asks if you have the ring in your claimed ring pool ( which you do , because it is considered to be in your ring pool / claimed )

Asakao Tsuki asks if you just claimed the ring, which you didn't , because it just sits there in your claimed ring pool (virtually).

Finally, updated ring rules. RRG now says: Claimed - Each ring in a player's claimed ring pool is a claimed ring.
With that said, now it should count with all things relating to claimed rings and rings in claimed ring pool's right?

Claimed Ring == Ring in claimed ring pool. It's the same.