So, um, Endless Hunger? Are we saying that ETR no longer exists?

Trashed from hand would make sense to me, because, Endless Hunger could trash this over and over to break an infinite number of ETR subs.

Am I missing something here?

I assume when it's trashed facedown, it's gone. Card text is inactive when not installed faceup, as far as I know.

Example 1: You have installed 3 Harbingers faceup. You run into a TL;DR -> Neural Katana combo. Trash each copy of Harbinger to prevent the first 3 net damage, by using Heartbeat - Harbingers go facedown. Trash each copy of Harbinger to prevent the last 3 net damage, by using Heartbeat - Harbingers go into your heap.

Example 2: You have installed 2 Harbingers faceup and 1 facedown. You run into a Hive (Corp has no agendas yet, so 5x ETR subroutines), trash the facedown copy to break the first ETR. That copy goes into your heap. You break ETR 2 and 3 by trashing the 2 faceup copies. Those are installed facedown. You break ETR 4 and 5 by trashing the 2 facedown copies. They go into your heap.

I assume when it's trashed facedown, it's gone. Card text is inactive when not installed faceup, as far as I know.

 

Example 1: You have installed 3 Harbingers faceup. You run into a TL;DR -> Neural Katana combo. Trash each copy of Harbinger to prevent the first 3 net damage, by using Heartbeat - Harbingers go facedown. Trash each copy of Harbinger to prevent the last 3 net damage, by using Heartbeat - Harbingers go into your heap.

 

Example 2: You have installed 2 Harbingers faceup and 1 facedown. You run into a Hive (Corp has no agendas yet, so 5x ETR subroutines), trash the facedown copy to break the first ETR. That copy goes into your heap. You break ETR 2 and 3 by trashing the 2 faceup copies. Those are installed facedown. You break ETR 4 and 5 by trashing the 2 facedown copies. They go into your heap.

Good points. Although we're going to have to see the rules on what the Runner can do with face down cards; can they be "rezzed" in a paid ability window, etc? If they can, it'll change the whole dynamic here. If they are just effectively out of play, that'll mediate this a bit.

I've had worse works from the grip, what happens when harbinger is trashed due to damage?

I've had worse works from the grip, what happens when harbinger is trashed due to damage?

A serious question for the FAQ, as nothing in the text of I've Had Worse says "from your grip", but still this is exactly how it works. Keep in mind that IHW says that the cards need to be trashed by taking net or meat damage, which specifically targets the grip, so it might be the logical chain "take damage - check for damage effects - IHW have such an effect, so it resolves". Riding this train means your statement is correct, as the Rulebook states that when the Runner takes damage in any way he trashes one of the cards in his grip, so the above logic applies.

An official clarification is needed the way I see it.

Also, just noticed that Technical Writer really makes work with Apex - trash cards, make money.

Technical Writer isn't a virtual resource, so it doesn't work with Apex.

A serious question for the FAQ, as nothing in the text of I've Had Worse says "from your grip", but still this is exactly how it works. Keep in mind that IHW says that the cards need to be trashed by taking net or meat damage, which specifically targets the grip, so it might be the logical chain "take damage - check for damage effects - IHW have such an effect, so it resolves". Riding this train means your statement is correct, as the Rulebook states that when the Runner takes damage in any way he trashes one of the cards in his grip, so the above logic applies.

 

An official clarification is needed the way I see it.

It's a good question, since several "when accessed" cards that may be installed go active when accessed in Archives or HQ (or R&D).

So, one reason for the specific text on I've Had Worse would be to keep you from self-trashing it to get a draw. No such text exists here, so I wonder if you might self-trash this to install it face-down; e.g. trashing this with Faust would install it face down, etc. That could be very interesting.

Cue everyone saying card text is inactive when cards are not installed. Cue me asking how Snare, Shi.Kyu, Shock, Space Camp, et al. work in HQ (with some also working in R&D and Archives).

Also, just noticed that Technical Writer really makes work with Apex - trash cards, make money.

Or it would, if it were a virtual resource.

Do we have a ruling on whether this gets installed face down if you trash this from your grip yet?

Is Harbinger still considered to be a program after being placed facedown? More specific, can it be reinstalled on a scheherazade?

Facedown cards have no "type", so no, I don't believe you can install it on scheherazade on its way back to the board after the first trash.

Facedown cards have no "type", so no, I don't believe you can install it on scheherazade on its way back to the board after the first trash.

This is not the whole story. Generally, facedown cards are inactive, but they absolutely must retain a number of features, including type. This, for example, is the only way ICE can be restricted to being installed in certain places, Assets and Agendas in other places, and Upgrades in yet other places. It is also the only way that most kinds of tutor can work, since a tutor usually designates a specific type of inactive facedown card to find. (The FAQ covers this: "A card has all of its subtypes when it is inactive" (FAQ 2.1, pg 5))

However, in this case, the pamphlet that comes with the expansion mentions installed facedown Runner cards as a specific exception -- they don't have type or subtype, nor are they active.

It's a small thing, I know, but I think we want to be clear here -- all kinds of facedown cards have type, especially for the Corp or in the Runner's stack. Only Runner cards that are installed facedown or turned facedown on the table lose type.

The answer is still "no," but most facedown (and other inactive) cards retain type and subtype.

This is not the whole story. Generally, facedown cards are inactive, but they absolutely must retain a number of features, including type. This, for example, is the only way ICE can be restricted to being installed in certain places, Assets and Agendas in other places, and Upgrades in yet other places. It is also the only way that most kinds of tutor can work, since a tutor usually designates a specific type of inactive facedown card to find. (The FAQ covers this: "A card has all of its subtypes when it is inactive" (FAQ 2.1, pg 5))

 

However, in this case, the pamphlet that comes with the expansion mentions installed facedown Runner cards as a specific exception -- they don't have type or subtype, nor are they active.

 

It's a small thing, I know, but I think we want to be clear here -- all kinds of facedown cards have type, especially for the Corp or in the Runner's stack. Only Runner cards that are installed facedown or turned facedown on the table lose type.

 

The answer is still "no," but most facedown (and other inactive) cards retain type and subtype.

You are quite right.  I should have been more careful in my wording.

What I meant was '[Runner cards installed] Facedown [by Apex's ability or something like it] have no "type"'...