The 4th card of the astrologically-themed ICE; now each corp has one each of these interesting trace-2/5 sentries. I'm looking forward to what they come up with for the code gates and barriers to complete the cycle.

I like this better in Weyland tag and bag vs nbn as a secondary way to land tags, but Data Raven seems like a stronger card.

I like this better in Weyland tag and bag vs nbn as a secondary way to land tags, but Data Raven seems like a stronger card.

Data Raven is just better. They both present an unavoidable tag (unless the Runner stops their run against Data Raven - also a good result) at the same rez cost. Data Raven happens whether they can break the sub routine or not. I can't imagine why you would ever prefer this over Data Raven.

Doesn't make this a bad card, just redundant with Data Raven.

there's no "gotcha" factor on data raven, they have the option to get tagged or end the run. this, especially with making news or other trace boosters, can take that option away. not saying this is better, but it is a key difference, makes it a little more tag and bag than tag advance, though not by much.

Data Raven is just better. They both present an unavoidable tag (unless the Runner stops their run against Data Raven - also a good result) at the same rez cost. Data Raven happens whether they can break the sub routine or not. I can't imagine why you would ever prefer this over Data Raven.

 

Doesn't make this a bad card, just redundant with Data Raven.

It's less likely to be the target of Femme, frankly, (or now the silverware) because it's not quite as all-out good as Data Raven. Lower profile cards like this, which aren't so obviously horrible for the runner, have their place. Include it with a Data Raven or 3 (not easy to splash then, however), and it'll trigger while the Raven gets bypassed.

There's something to be said for ICE not being top of the line, and this works in the right deck. Context is important, but I'm a big fan of mind games and offering inobvious choices. Nobody will Femme a Pup either, and that thing is handy.

But assuming Data Raven isn't bypassed, a tag is mandatory whether you break its subroutine or not. Virgo's subroutine can simply be broken, which means that a tag is by no means guaranteed.

But assuming Data Raven isn't bypassed, a tag is mandatory whether you break its subroutine or not. Virgo's subroutine can simply be broken, which means that a tag is by no means guaranteed.

Yep, Data Raven is better. Too bad you can't put 6 in a deck.

I'd never assume that the runner isn't taking advantage of all the available tools, so assuming Data Raven isn't bypassed is like assuming that the runner is running with no money, etc.

It's less likely to be the target of Femme, frankly, (or now the silverware) because it's not quite as all-out good as Data Raven. Lower profile cards like this, which aren't so obviously horrible for the runner, have their place.

I don't understand what you're getting at. This card can also be bypassed. You're saying this is less likely to be Femme'd because it's not as good as Data Raven. Since they cost the same to rez, that sounds like an argument for why it isn't a very good card. I personally would rather be playing with as much ICE that the runner wishes they could target with Femme as I can.

As I said before, I don't think this is bad ICE and I could certainly see a spot for it (after you already have 3 Data Ravens in your deck). 

Is the part "If your trace strength is 5 or greater, give the Runner 1 tag" a part of the subroutine, or does it count regardless of the tracing result?

E.g., a successful trace happens with 6 total strength trace from the Corp, and the runner cannot/will not pay any credits. How many tags does the runner get?

Is the part "If your trace strength is 5 or greater, give the Runner 1 tag" a part of the subroutine, or does it count regardless of the tracing result?

 

E.g., a successful trace happens with 6 total strength trace from the Corp, and the runner cannot/will not pay any credits. How many tags does the runner get?

Successful Trace = 1 tag

Trace Strength 5+ = 1 tag

Ergo, successful trace at 5+ strength = 2 tags

I don't understand what you're getting at. This card can also be bypassed. You're saying this is less likely to be Femme'd because it's not as good as Data Raven. Since they cost the same to rez, that sounds like an argument for why it isn't a very good card. I personally would rather be playing with as much ICE that the runner wishes they could target with Femme as I can.

 

As I said before, I don't think this is bad ICE and I could certainly see a spot for it (after you already have 3 Data Ravens in your deck). 

Actually, I find myself agreeing with you more and more.

The one thing I've seen with Virgo is that, if you really need to stick a tag early, and the Runner knows that this will be a very bad thing, Virgo can stick it, whereas Data Raven just becomes ETR (Runner's choice, that).

That's very specific, and in most contexts you'd want that ETR early, not a better chance at the tag.

This card looks a little better after Traffic Accident. A successful "hit" with it can turn on Traffic Accident immediately. From a tempo perspective, a runner that clears two tags without some tech such as Crash Space (or other seldom played tag clearing cards) is taking a huge dent in their pace. From a psychological perspective, a runner will almost always pay to clear 1 tag unless they are planning to go tag me from the onset, but often once a runner gets tagged up a lot the player opts to not clear them (or cannot afford to) and ends up going tag me.

However, I still think Data Raven is all around better for general use.

Comparing Virgo to Data Raven is like comparing Markus 1.0 to Eli 1.0. Data Raven/Eli 1.0 is clearly better, but if 3 copies aren't enough, you can use Virgo/Markus 1.0 as some sort of 4th/5th/6th copy.