Wait, I can advance this while it's Unrezzed? Woah, that seems broken. Oh wait, no it seems appropriate. I like that the bad publicity effect is handled by the built-in make-the-runner pay subroutines.

This actually makes me very happy. First piece of Weyland ice I've been excited about in a while.

... First piece of Weyland ice I've been excited about in a while.

Exactly my thought on it. Weyland has been stuck on core set ICE for too long.

Are swarm and Grim the first Illicit ice available? I wonder if we get a dedicated program like Deus Ex.

Another excellent advanceable Ice for Weyland. At three credits per save, this is extremely strong, even with only two or three advancement tokens. This is a massive boosts for Weyland.

too bad runners can now tutor and re-cycle faeries all day.

too bad runners can now tutor and re-cycle faeries all day.

At 3 faction cost, you don't rarely see it outside of criminal often.

At 3 faction cost, you don't really see it outside of criminal often.

But with 3x Clone Chip and 3x SMC, all you need is one; therefore Shapers might end up using Faerie quite a bit.

Another excellent advanceable Ice for Weyland. At three credits per save, this is extremely strong, even with only two or three advancement tokens. This is a massive boosts for Weyland.

Think about how much you pay for it. 8 credits, 1 bad pub + the advancements. This card is too expensive for what it does. You need at least 3 advancements on this to force the runnter to use their Ninja or Femme Fatale and not just paying the subroutines, which cost you 2 clicks each. And Emergency Shutdown makes you super sad, because the bad pub doesn't go away.
I won't be playing this in all likelyhood.

Haven't played Netrunner from a while, and I have one question: There are some cards like this one which make the runner pay credits; to whom do the runner pays those credits? (to the bank or to the corporation; I suppose to the bank, but I want to be sure which one is right)
Thank you

All payments go to the bank. Check the "Account Siphon" card for an example of the wording used when credits go both ways.

Illicit ICE disappoints this far... its not bad ICE but its not powerfull or cheap enough to justify the bad puplicity

its not bad ICE but its not powerfull or cheap enough to justify the bad puplicity

Which makes it... bad?

But with 3x Clone Chip and 3x SMC, all you need is one; therefore Shapers might end up using Faerie quite a bit.

SMC and Clone chip aren't auto include in all shapers decks either. Also 3 SMCs are probably overkill for almost all decks.

Also 3 SMCs are probably overkill for almost all decks.

No, they are not. You want to run as many tutors as possible. Every SMC is an extra copy of every program in your deck.

No, they are not. You want to run as many tutors as possible. Every SMC is an extra copy of every program in your deck.

And you need EVERY copy of EVERY program in ALL decks. NO Sorry. If tutors were soooo good, we would have seen special order etc more prominent. There is an optimal ratio and it's not 3 SMCs and as MANY tutors as possible for ALL decks. Back up your statement please. Chaos/Andy does not need 3 SMC for sure in ANY decks. One or two is more than enough for both if you want to have it. Noise already has Djinn which provides the MU he needs and gets him the virus he needs. He probably will not auto include 3 SMCs. Hmm that's 3 runners who does not run 3 SMCs. Also, credit denial Whizzard deck would have to drop the third account siphon to have 3 SMCs. So your opinion is flat out wrong stating that almost all decks want 3 copies of SMCs. 3 SMCs are good for kat shaper decks etc. Your analysis is very biased towards C&C decks. If top regional runner decks all ran 3 SMCs + all the good tutors, I'll bow down but until then above statement is not true. So next time please think and provide detailed examples before you post

And you need EVERY copy of EVERY program in ALL decks. NO Sorry. If tutors were soooo good, we would have seen special order etc more prominent. There is an optimal ratio and it's not 3 SMCs and as MANY tutors as possible for ALL decks. Back up your statement please. Chaos/Andy does not need 3 SMC for sure in ANY decks. One or two is more than enough for both if you want to have it. Noise already has Djinn which provides the MU he needs and gets him the virus he needs. He probably will not auto include 3 SMCs. Hmm that's 3 runners who does not run 3 SMCs. Also, credit denial Whizzard deck would have to drop the third account siphon to have 3 SMCs. So your opinion is flat out wrong stating that almost all decks want 3 copies of SMCs. 3 SMCs are good for kat shaper decks etc. Your analysis is very biased towards C&C decks. If top regional runner decks all ran 3 SMCs + all the good tutors, I'll bow down but until then above statement is not true. So next time please think and provide detailed examples before you post

Oh wow. Show me the part where I said you should play 3x SMC in every deck out of faction. You also shouldn't play 3x Special order out of faction most of the time, because there is a neat little concept in this game called influence. As many tutors as possible may have been a poor choice of words here, but if you can include tutors at a reasonable cost, both credit and influence wise, I don't see any reason not to run them right now.
Anyhow, you made the statement that SMC isn't an auto-include in Shaper and that 3x SMC is overkill for "allmost all" decks. You may not have noticed, but the current Shaper meta leans towards the direction of running a **** ton of one-off programs in a deck, which is only enabled by the existence of this card. And if you plan to use Faerie in Shaper as in the post you initially quoted, running 3x SMC and 3x Clone Chip is a pretty good idea

Also, how would my "analysis" (I didn't even plan to make any) not be biased towards C&C decks. It's a C&C card. Including this in your deck means you have a C&C deck. I have yet to build a Shaper deck since C&C released, that doesn't profit of 3x SMC.

Last but not least: Funny how you demand detailed examples for backing up a statement, when your initial statement didn't include any as well.
But maybe you should think before your post. And while you're at it, try not to be a **** about, maybe I'll won't be one either then.

Oh wow. Show me the part where I said you should play 3x SMC in every deck out of faction.

I said
Also 3 SMCs are probably overkill for almost all decks.
You said
No, they are not. You want to run as many tutors as possible. Every SMC is an extra copy of every program in your deck

My point was that you definitely do not need 3 SMC in most decks including non shaper decks. Heck Chaos does not need 3 SMCs like I said earlier which you just brushed off. You disagreed. I said 3 is overkill for almost all decks you said No 3 SMCs are not overkill for almost all decks. Unless you can say list a decklist for every identity and archetypes that uses 3 SMCs. Your statement is not true. So I argued Whizzard, chaos, andy and noise decks which does not benefit from 3 SMCs.

You also shouldn't play 3x Special order out of faction most of the time

This statement contradicts your earlier statement as well. Please be consistent in your argument. As many tutor as possible for almost all decks means running 3 X Special order for almost all decks. Clarify your statement saying as many tutors as possible in faction.

And if you plan to use Faerie in Shaper as in the post you initially quoted, running 3x SMC and 3x Clone Chip is a pretty good idea

It is. Never said otherwise. Your argument relies on the fact that the deck runs Faerie. Not all deck does. That was my initial point. Not all decks can spare 3 off faction point for a killer.

but the current Shaper meta leans towards the direction of running a **** ton of one-off programs in a deck,

Your argument of meta is moot as well. There is no such thing as the meta in netrunner. There is your local meta maybe OCTGN meta. Netrunner isn't Magic. We don't have gigantic tournaments like magic. Please see the interview from Gencon with FFG for further elaboration.

16:45

It's a C&C card. Including this in your deck means you have a C&C deck. I have yet to build a Shaper deck since C&C released, that doesn't profit of 3x SMC.

Chaos theory does not benefit from 3 SMCs. I gave you a clear example which you couldn't comprehend I suppose.

In summary,

you made the statement that SMC isn't an auto-include in Shaper and that 3x SMC is overkill for "allmost all" decks.

1. SMC isn't an auto-include in Shaper Not true in Chaos

2. 3x SMC is overkill for "allmost all" decks. Whizzard, chaos, andy and noise decks defiinitely. Prof and Exile I agree that 3 SMCs are definitely good. Others? I think it depends on the archetype.

I still disagree with you on not including three in every Shaper deck though. I don't see a reason not to.
You give up some dead draws later on for more consitency and flexibility to install your breakers or defensive programs on the fly. Even if you are just running a traditional breaker suit, including 3x SMC is still a better option than just adding another copy of each breaker.And only because you are saying Chaos doesn#t I also thought not spending all of your influence (it's not acutally all, but it seems I need to carify that) on tutors is common sense and was implied.

Also, you are still acting like a ****. And by the way: Please show me your clear statement why CT doesn't need 3x SMC. Your statement was: Chaos/Andy does not need 3 SMC for sure in ANY decks. One or two is more than enough for both if you want to have it.
You make a statement and don't back it up, the same thing you you are insiting I shouldn't do and insult me for, and the same thing you did in your initial post. But sure, I am the idiot and must prove all my statements with scientific examples while you can just make statements and insult me in the process.

Yay, more mediocre at best Wayland ICE, just what I always wanted. Until and unless something comes out that actually provides a BENEFIT to the corp having bad publicity (say a 6 advancement, 1 point agenda with the text "this agenda is worth 1 extra agenda point for every bad publicity the corporation has") it's just too expensive.

And on a side request, could this tutor discussion with linked videos and lengthy back and forth move to the discussion forum? It's kind of off topic for the Swarm card!

Yay, more mediocre at best Wayland ICE, just what I always wanted. Until and unless something comes out that actually provides a BENEFIT to the corp having bad publicity (say a 6 advancement, 1 point agenda with the text "this agenda is worth 1 extra agenda point for every bad publicity the corporation has") it's just too expensive.

I'd like to see a transaction operation that gives you more cash the more bad pub you have.

But actually, this card has value, because now the runner has to be more cautious about running into unrezzed, advanced ICE. Hadrian's Wall? Thud. Swarm? Ouch. The bad pub can be *somewhat* offset by using Commercialization, but yeah, it's still a big drawback.

But actually, this card has value, because now the runner has to be more cautious about running into unrezzed, advanced ICE. Hadrian's Wall? Thud. Swarm? Ouch. The bad pub can be *somewhat* offset by using Commercialization, but yeah, it's still a big drawback.

On the other hand the corp has to invest a ton of credits and the subroutines don't do a whole lot if the runner is rich and you aren't. Yeah, you have to keep it in mind as the runner or you might be in for a bad awakening, but on the other hand you can always just break it. And it's in Ninja range.

Another piece of Weyland ice that gets destroyed by Parasite+Datasuckers. Sigh...

Another piece of Weyland ice that gets destroyed by Parasite+Datasuckers. Sigh...

Huh?