DS_ImperialWarMachine

The biggest problem (I tried a sample draw..) that I see is a severe lack of enhancement resources.

A good portion of the objectives are only 1 resource as well.

:3

Some stats about resource generation:
40% of the Objectives generate 2 resources
3 enhancements generate resources
5 units generate resources
1 event generates resources
2 Resupply stations reduce the cost of 8/26 units in deck
7 Hoth objectives reduce the cost of the 2 Wampas in deck

Unit Statistics:
15/26 units deploy for 2 or less (including Wampas)
30 Blast damage icons (17/13) [non-edge/edge]
13/26 units have shielding (and enhanced by Forward Command Post)
14/26 units are enhanced by Veers

I agree that on paper this deck looks like it could be a little resource hungry. There are ways to remedy the issue; but in the games I played with it this weekend, they all went to turn 3 or 4 with the DS win.

All those 1-of pods look abit weird and some have very little synergy with your other cards.
Dark Time doesn't have any shields or troopers and only give you a Hoth objective, Tie Attack Squadron is lackluster if you don't have alot of Fate-cards.
I would probably build this with a Devastator instead of Defense Protocol (and strongly think about taking in another instead of deploy the fleet) and another Motti instead of Dark Time (to get troopers instead of vehicles and extra resources).

All those 1-of pods look abit weird and some have very little synergy with your other cards.
Dark Time doesn't have any shields or troopers and only give you a Hoth objective, Tie Attack Squadron is lackluster if you don't have alot of Fate-cards.
I would probably build this with a Devastator instead of Defense Protocol (and strongly think about taking in another instead of deploy the fleet) and another Motti instead of Dark Time (to get troopers instead of vehicles and extra resources).

There is some rationale behind the single OSets, though I admit they do look a little odd on paper. Part of the problem is that Navy have so few "good" fate card OSets. For example, Defense Protocol is the only Navy set at all with a ToF. And while all the overall OSet is pretty good, in this deck you are correct that it has very little synergy, hence the single instance of the set. With the low Force pips, the threat of a ToF (even if just one) is important to me. I could be convinced to switch it for Kuat Reinforcements. It also has Death From Above, a decent striker in the TIE Bomber, and can be useful for the Walkers and SDs. I lose a fate card and the ability to provide a kill stroke by decreasing my reserve. It would need some testing before I switched it however.

I could totally see the Devastator or Tarkin OSet in this deck instead of something like Dark Time. Either would give me a 3 Force pip unit (and theirs are elite vice Stark who is not) and another resource enhancement. That is a good suggestion that is definitely worth testing.

To Imperial Command, I like the set. It is probably one of the better (if not one of the best) the Navy have ATM. I just do not think that it is worth switching out for Deploy the Fleet. I chalk this one up to play taste, but Death Squadron Command is just so very good, the SDs can soak so much damage and they are affected by the supply stations. I definitely want to make the deck better, so I can test it through as well, but I see this as one of the least likely changes just because I already have so many low cost units, Motti is unique (though very good) and the duty officer is very fragile.

BTW, I wanted to thank the two of you for the feedback on the deck. I seldom post my decks as I thoroughly enjoy crunching through these things myself, but I really want this deck to work and I have less time as of late to mess with deckbuilding.

@Hoop - I have been thinking about the resource management in the deck since your post, and with the other comment I am seriously considering adding the Devastator OSet in the place of something for the additional resource enhancement.

I'm not a fan of 2x Generals Imp...but thats just me

There is some rationale behind the single OSets, though I admit they do look a little odd on paper. Part of the problem is that Navy have so few "good" fate card OSets. For example, Defense Protocol is the only Navy set at all with a ToF. And while all the overall OSet is pretty good, in this deck you are correct that it has very little synergy, hence the single instance of the set. With the low Force pips, the threat of a ToF (even if just one) is important to me. I could be convinced to switch it for Kuat Reinforcements. It also has Death From Above, a decent striker in the TIE Bomber, and can be useful for the Walkers and SDs. I lose a fate card and the ability to provide a kill stroke by decreasing my reserve. It would need some testing before I switched it however.

I could totally see the Devastator or Tarkin OSet in this deck instead of something like Dark Time. Either would give me a 3 Force pip unit (and theirs are elite vice Stark who is not) and another resource enhancement. That is a good suggestion that is definitely worth testing.

To Imperial Command, I like the set. It is probably one of the better (if not one of the best) the Navy have ATM. I just do not think that it is worth switching out for Deploy the Fleet. I chalk this one up to play taste, but Death Squadron Command is just so very good, the SDs can soak so much damage and they are affected by the supply stations. I definitely want to make the deck better, so I can test it through as well, but I see this as one of the least likely changes just because I already have so many low cost units, Motti is unique (though very good) and the duty officer is very fragile.

While I agree that the SD's in Deploy the fleet are reasonably with the shielding and whatnot, I don't think you need 6 AT-AT cards, 2 Death Squadron Star Destroyer and 2 Devastator so something should probably be cut. I think keeping the Defense Protocol for the Twist is not bad, but I would do something to get another Fate-card or two in there. A easy way of getting fate cards is switching out Deploy the fleet and Dark Time for Death and Despayre (which besides upgrading your 6-cost units) gets you additional resources (I don't count Admiral's orders with only 2 capital ships, even if a control room is worse that death squadron command) and 2 very useful Heat of Battle.

While I agree that the SD's in Deploy the fleet are reasonably with the shielding and whatnot, I don't think you need 6 AT-AT cards, 2 Death Squadron Star Destroyer and 2 Devastator so something should probably be cut. I think keeping the Defense Protocol for the Twist is not bad, but I would do something to get another Fate-card or two in there. A easy way of getting fate cards is switching out Deploy the fleet and Dark Time for Death and Despayre (which besides upgrading your 6-cost units) gets you additional resources (I don't count Admiral's orders with only 2 capital ships, even if a control room is worse that death squadron command) and 2 very useful Heat of Battle.

I really like the suggestion, and in-line with my other thoughts on resource generation, am willing to test it. I am still having a little heartburn over losing a Hoth objective, free early Damage and Heavy Fire, which is good. I definitely agree about the Fate cards, resource enhancements, and Devastator, which makes it such a difficult but probably necessary switch.

I am trying this variant out tonight. I really think Dark time is a butt set.

I may opt for 2x defense protocol here. Navy without removal is an uphill battle and I really rely on tie attack squadron midgame for removal. I had a close gamem.but still lost..vs some sleuths

I played a close game against sleuths as well. I ended swapping out Dark Time for Devastator and it was big D's ability that won the game, though I had enough blast on table to take out the 3rd objective FTW.

I really do feel like DP is a necessity in the deck.

In my game, 2x defense upgrade saved me...A LOT.

The main problem with navy is it's really hard to outrace smugglers... I may vote for 2x defense protocol just for that.

Straight navy is basically cripped compared to sith because LS has a much easier time taking out 3 objectives than DS navy has taking out enough objectives + clocking the dial to 12. This hasn't changed since the core set imho.

Love where this deck is going but jesus...a few good LS units on the board and navy is trembling.

Also, what sucks about the current meta is you really have to have enough 1-2 cost chuds in your deck to be blockers v.s sleuths. The real balance of navy right now is having enough pods in your deck that can put out defenders OR remove sleuths asap. hence why I think 2x defense protocol is key.

I don't think 1x DP is really useful at this point...tallon roll is a dead card without tie fighters or tie attack squadron on the board, and it seems obvious that there arent many "strong" fighters at this point.

This deck will lose against smugglers because FFG has been terrible at balancing this game.

That is all.

Hoop, I really like the idea of a second copy of DP. Should it be an 11th OSet, or is there something that can be cut?

Hey Adam,

I have been playing this deck-type a lot and here is what I am currently running. I did change it a lot, but resources were killing me.

2x Defense Protocol (So damn important. Pinging han for 1 damage or chewie or a slueth scout is critical.)
2x Death and Despayre (Defense Upgrade is too necessary vs. sleuth scouts. TRUST ME!!!)
2x Unstoppable Advance (I want to run 2 of these so bad..but I sigh when I draw too many AT-AT's....that being said, Aggravated Assault is a powerhouse card. )
1x Deploy The Fleet (More resources, synergizes with Death and Despayre; I could have played a Star destroyer for 3 resources last game. The 3 resource enhancement in here is a lot better than you'd think. I would almost never run 2x of this objective)
1x General's Imperative (Drawing 2x of these objective sets is weak IMHO- you will barely get to use the ability and it's only 1 resource. I have never used Turbolaser battery, and it has awful force icons. That, and this deck has a ton of enhancements. AT-AT's are better enhancement hate.)
1x Shadows on the Ice (Wampas are still good, and Succumb to the Cold has been extremely helpful for stalling)
1x Sabotage in the snow (Terrible Obj set, but the shielded blast bonus is extremely useful and synergizes well)

I've mostly been playing against smugglers with this deck. Han and Sleuths, as usual, are a big problem...but I have pulled out some wins (or super close losses) with this deck. Aggravated assault (except when facing trust me!) completely shuts down Raise the Stakes on turn 1. This is a big play.

IMHO, running too many Navy Weenies is still a bad idea because of Han. I like Blizzard AT-ST's, but I don't like 4x of them, and I especially don't like Generals Imperative x2. That will most likely draw you one extra card and then be a crap resource.

I would consider ice trompers, but a single "trust me!" makes the damage card in this pod worthless.

The goal is really to "hold out" vs. ultra aggressive decks and punish them with the big guys..which is really easy with the relay station and resources. Defense upgrade has saved my skin more times than I can count and I don't see myself taking out 2x Death and Despayre because of it. This only has 5 hoth objectives for Aggravated Assault and BoH, but you're really likely to see 1 or 2 on the flop..so it has not been an issue yet.

If navy had better 2 drop weenies....hmm.

So you favor dropping Motti and a Veers for a second D&D and DP. I can totally see that. You said this does better against Detective Han?

Yea. Motti doesn't really doesn't fit with the deck as well imho. He falls into the needa and tarkin category of deflection and han bait. Same fot veers. 2x turbolaser and 4x blizzard atst is too much

Some quick thoughts on Objective Sets like Imperial Command; I think that they are a necessary part of the meta right now, with Sleuths / Detective Han being so popular. There are very few Navy sets that contain two decent units that can block the runners.

Some stats on 2x 1 or 2 cost units:
Sith
Counsel 2 - Advisor (20-2) and Security Team (20-3)
Black Sqdn 2 - TIE Advanced (21-3) and Blk Sqdn Pilot (21-4)
Killing Cold 2 - 2x Tromper (40-2)
Serve Emp 2 - 2x Prophet (50-2)
Fist 2 - 2x 501st Troop (62-2)
Ghosts - 2x Wraith (87-2)

Navy
*Imp Command 2
Kuat 2 - TIE (27-3) and TIE Bomber (27-4) (so really bad)
Take them Prisoner 2 - 2x Death Star Troop (32-2) (also really bad)
Vader's Cmd 2 - 2x Probe (41-4)
*Dark Time 2 - 2x MTV-7 (51-3)
*Gen Imperative 2 - 2x Blz AT-ST (56-3)

Scum
Lucrative 2 - 2x Corrupt Official (57-3) (these guys do double duty!)
Hive 3 - Greedo (80-2) and 2x Informant (80-3)
Crash 2 - 2x Jawa (82-2)
Trany Terror 2 - 2x Hunter (85-3)

Neutral
Looking for Droids 2 - 2x Viper Probe (34-2)
Exploitation 5 - 5x Espo Troop (35-2) !!
Jundland 3 - 3x Tusken (89-3)
Asteroid 2 - 2x Sentry Troop (90-3)

* = At least 1 copy in v1 or 1.1 of this deck

You will notice that I included 3 of the 6 Navy ones in the deck. In your opinion, is this just not the right time to be playing Navy b/c the other factions seem to have better cards to deal with the runners?

Honestly,

I have still been winning or have come really close to winning with the deck I posted above.

Sleuths are good, but Navy isn't terrible right now IMHO.

To be honest though, I need more experience vs. other popular LS builds.

Also, really important point that bears mentioning is that most DS 1-2 drops only have 1 unit damage, so that sleuth can still drop a heat of battle and survive for multiple turns. I think having a few small guys is great, but realistically they are more fodder than I'd hope. Blizzard AT-ST is a perfect example of this. Against sleuths his only abilities are a.) blocking and shielding the objective, or b.) blocking and shielding himself to prevent unopposed damage. Neither of these scenarios is exactly "great" for DS. He also eats it hard to Han. Yes, I bring up Han a lot, but I have to build decks that can survive a turn 1 Han.

I am totally not against Motti, but in this deck type which has blatant synergy towards shielding and vehicles, I'd opt for a different choice perhaps? Really tough call IMHO and playtesting.

Keep in mind that 1x of a pod usually means "it's nice, but don't expect to see the cards in it every game" and as such should not be a focus of your deck.

If you're going into splashing territory..that's a WHOLE other ballgame I haven't even touched yet. I suspect scum might be more synergetic with walkers (and tractor beam is AWESOME..though in a blah slave 1 pod..)

Honestly,

I have still been winning or have come really close to winning with the deck I posted above.

Sleuths are good, but Navy isn't terrible right now IMHO.

To be honest though, I need more experience vs. other popular LS builds.

Also, really important point that bears mentioning is that most DS 1-2 drops only have 1 unit damage, so that sleuth can still drop a heat of battle and survive for multiple turns. I think having a few small guys is great, but realistically they are more fodder than I'd hope. Blizzard AT-ST is a perfect example of this. Against sleuths his only abilities are a.) blocking and shielding the objective, or b.) blocking and shielding himself to prevent unopposed damage. Neither of these scenarios is exactly "great" for DS. He also eats it hard to Han. Yes, I bring up Han a lot, but I have to build decks that can survive a turn 1 Han.

I am totally not against Motti, but in this deck type which has blatant synergy towards shielding and vehicles, I'd opt for a different choice perhaps? Really tough call IMHO and playtesting.

Keep in mind that 1x of a pod usually means "it's nice, but don't expect to see the cards in it every game" and as such should not be a focus of your deck.

If you're going into splashing territory..that's a WHOLE other ballgame I haven't even touched yet. I suspect scum might be more synergetic with walkers (and tractor beam is AWESOME..though in a blah slave 1 pod..)

It is interesting you should mention this. As I was compiling that last list; I had an idea. Feel free to PM if interested. Also, I am getting ready to hop onto OCTGN. If you are around and have some time/desire, hop on.

Not sure of the follow-up from our game what did you change?

My changes are made in the first post. The decklist as posted is what I played. As I sub things out I switch it to the bottom. It is like a running continuity of the deck as it evolves. This is "technically" version 2.3, but there was a significant enough change that I think it is its own deck, and the other Navy Vehicles is something else entirely.

Am I crazy for debating on dropping 1x Unstoppable Advance for 1x Dark time for the Rebellion? (In my variation)

Am I crazy for debating on dropping 1x Unstoppable Advance for 1x Dark time for the Rebellion? (In my variation)

Yes

On a more serious note, that I've argued for earlier in this thread:
2 AT-AT pods, 1 Deploy the Fleet and 2 Devastator is too many big expensive units. I personally think AT-AT's are better than Deploy the Fleet but one pod should be cut.
I can on the other hand not understand why you want to add A Dark Time, when you got loads of blast in there already. I would pick either Killing Cold, Vader's Fist, Imperial Command, Endor Gambit or Recon Mission over Dark TIme.