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Murder Legion
Submitted by
AegriSomnia
, Oct 29 2014 05:13 AM | Last updated Jan 27 2015 11:17 PM
HangoverGlory, parralex0889, VALIS and 1 other like this
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Chaos Dark Eldar
Aggro Combo Control
Develop card advantage with Murder Cogitator and control the board through aoe, burn, indirect removal, and Archon's Terror.
Warlord
Order by: NameTypeCost
Total Cards: 0
This is currently my favorite version of Chaos to run.
Things to note that might be uncommon in most chaos decks and my thoughts behind them:
Murder Cogitator - A card that I feel gets overlooked quite a bit. Personally, I love this card. I run a bit more more chaos units (27/50 cards) to ensure this has a better chance of going off. I feel like the majority of the time I see it I get at least two cards out of it, which is definitely worth it in my book.
Ravenous Flesh Hounds - Another card I feel may be overlooked. The thing I love about this card is how utterly difficult it can be to get rid of. In extended fights, this is hands down one of the best units in the game to assure you can clutch out the win in a battle you need. The fact that you can sac a cultist from anywhere in play is kind of ridiculous. For me, this just really adds some much needed meat to the deck.
I decided to take out Dire Mutation and replace it with Tzeentch's Firestorm. After countless games with this deck I've come to realize that although I absolutely love the efficiency of Dire Mutation with Zarathur, the flexibility of Tzeentch's Firestorm is much higher. Ultimately the thing that did it for me after all considerations was the 2 shields. Overall I'm pretty satisfied with the change.
Sample Hand:
Total Shields: 0
Average Shields Per Event/Attachment: 0
Total Command: 0
Average Command Per Unit: 0
Looks like a great deck to me, once you've chosen the Dark Eldar allience. Altough I personally still love my Ork Kannon/Dire Mutation build, I do have to say that quite some situations Archon's Terror is actually better (altough it depends on wheter or not you start with Ork Kannon).
Couple of quesions:
- 2x Heretek, also played it earlier this way, but I would up them to 3x and remove a single Rogue Trader.
- 3x Xaveas Split-Tongue, how does that pan out for you? I feel you could make room for Dire Mutation if you really wanted.
- 2x Warp Storm, 2x Archon's Terror, Id personally really like to play 3 of both, why the 2-offs?
Exactly,can't agree with Killax more. 3 Split-Tongues are overkill.. Try removing them and put 3 dire mutation in their place,see how it works for you. Dire mutation is an amazing cock-block card,especially when on a planet with Zarathur.
Don't you think that 9 5+ cost units, having just 3 Promises of Glory, are too much risk for a starting hand? Sure they are strong in game, but will be dead cards in your hand if you draw many in the early turns.
Don't you think that 9 5+ cost units, having just 3 Promises of Glory, are too much risk for a starting hand? Sure they are strong in game, but will be dead cards in your hand if you draw many in the early turns.
I agree with that, on the other hand, once your ahead of the game you can gain maximum profit out of it.
Personally I run max 6 5+ cost units, with Bloodletters and Fleshhounds being the most expensive units I have.
The main reason why I didn't comment on it is because Chaos is in a "worse" position because it's late drops are excellent. Once you've got Promise of Glory you do want to do something with it. The downside remains that the late drops (except Bloodletters) don't always pan out good enough vs Cato and Kith.
All in all I think it's a personal option to include them. Much like some like the Heldrake's and some don't.
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll give it some more thought and work.
What's the official thought on Split Tongue in your opinion, Killax? I tend to like him as at least a 2x. The cultist generation is amazing when it goes off, but I could see if the thought is the card is too slow.
Re: Cogitator, this is a card with great potential but limited utility at present. I love how you've pushed the envelope here, getting to 54% hit chance, and with 19 units that will leave play to trigger it, as well as the Promise to Glories. Indeed, I think there's more than enough units to leave play that you can rely on firing the Cogitator at least three turns out of four.
However, those numbers still don't do it for me.
If we say:
Expected Reward in Cards = (Number of Turns in Play) x (% of turns that it triggers) x (% hit chance)
then basically we're looking at:
1 turn in play: 0.4 cards
2 turn in play: 0.8 cards
3 turn in play: 1.2 cards
4 turn in play: 1.6 cards
5 turn in play: 2.0 cards
6 turn in play: 2.4 cards
The average profit point is 3 turns in play. Next question is how likely is it to see Murder Cogitator more than 3 turns from the end of the game?
Guesstimate time: a Chaos deck generally wins or loses on Planets 4-6. We'd have to study deck performance, but I'd say an Average of Turn 5 is reasonable for game end. That gives us 3 turns to draw that card. If we say by Turn 3 you've dug 18 cards in, then that leaves it about 60% chance of this card adding to your deck performance.
Obviously you can adjust the guesstimates and the numbers come out different. The more broadly optimistic you are about your ability to win command on drawing, the better it looks, and the longer you predict games will run, the better it looks. Also, of course, its not just whether its a net positive to your deck: its whether it performs better than the alternative choice in the same slot, and what shape the deck has to be to accomodate it: in short, by including a load of Chaos Units to facilitate this card, what good Ork and Neutral Units are you cutting?
And finally, of course, there's a hard to quantify but significant advantage in using up a deploy turn on a 0-cost card.
Run your analyses, but I believe at present the Murder Cogitator is close to performing, but is not quite there yet. My advice would be to wait till we can access Ammo Depot, then run three of each along with a Cultist/Daemon heavy build with at least 31 cards of 50 in the deck being Chaos Units.
Run your analyses, but I believe at present the Murder Cogitator is close to performing, but is not quite there yet. My advice would be to wait till we can access Ammo Depot, then run three of each along with a Cultist/Daemon heavy build with at least 31 cards of 50 in the deck being Chaos Units.
Obviously I can only agree. Apart from that it remains important to value Chaos by it's strengths. In special Zarathur likes aggressive cards. When cards like Cogitator are included it could draw you more cards but more importantly it doesn't influence the outcome of the upcomming battles.
For what it's worth I play Orks because Ork Kannon is just really good with Zarathur. Archon's Terror currently seems to be the only DE cards you use and in all honesty, if you go that route Incubus Warrior should also be part of your deck...
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7 Comments
Looks like a great deck to me, once you've chosen the Dark Eldar allience. Altough I personally still love my Ork Kannon/Dire Mutation build, I do have to say that quite some situations Archon's Terror is actually better (altough it depends on wheter or not you start with Ork Kannon).
Couple of quesions:
- 2x Heretek, also played it earlier this way, but I would up them to 3x and remove a single Rogue Trader.
- 3x Xaveas Split-Tongue, how does that pan out for you? I feel you could make room for Dire Mutation if you really wanted.
- 2x Warp Storm, 2x Archon's Terror, Id personally really like to play 3 of both, why the 2-offs?
Current rating:
3/5
Exactly,can't agree with Killax more. 3 Split-Tongues are overkill.. Try removing them and put 3 dire mutation in their place,see how it works for you. Dire mutation is an amazing cock-block card,especially when on a planet with Zarathur.
3/5
Don't you think that 9 5+ cost units, having just 3 Promises of Glory, are too much risk for a starting hand? Sure they are strong in game, but will be dead cards in your hand if you draw many in the early turns.
I agree with that, on the other hand, once your ahead of the game you can gain maximum profit out of it.
Personally I run max 6 5+ cost units, with Bloodletters and Fleshhounds being the most expensive units I have.
The main reason why I didn't comment on it is because Chaos is in a "worse" position because it's late drops are excellent. Once you've got Promise of Glory you do want to do something with it. The downside remains that the late drops (except Bloodletters) don't always pan out good enough vs Cato and Kith.
All in all I think it's a personal option to include them. Much like some like the Heldrake's and some don't.
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll give it some more thought and work.
What's the official thought on Split Tongue in your opinion, Killax? I tend to like him as at least a 2x. The cultist generation is amazing when it goes off, but I could see if the thought is the card is too slow.
Re: Cogitator, this is a card with great potential but limited utility at present. I love how you've pushed the envelope here, getting to 54% hit chance, and with 19 units that will leave play to trigger it, as well as the Promise to Glories. Indeed, I think there's more than enough units to leave play that you can rely on firing the Cogitator at least three turns out of four.
However, those numbers still don't do it for me.
If we say:
Expected Reward in Cards = (Number of Turns in Play) x (% of turns that it triggers) x (% hit chance)
then basically we're looking at:
1 turn in play: 0.4 cards
2 turn in play: 0.8 cards
3 turn in play: 1.2 cards
4 turn in play: 1.6 cards
5 turn in play: 2.0 cards
6 turn in play: 2.4 cards
The average profit point is 3 turns in play. Next question is how likely is it to see Murder Cogitator more than 3 turns from the end of the game?
Guesstimate time: a Chaos deck generally wins or loses on Planets 4-6. We'd have to study deck performance, but I'd say an Average of Turn 5 is reasonable for game end. That gives us 3 turns to draw that card. If we say by Turn 3 you've dug 18 cards in, then that leaves it about 60% chance of this card adding to your deck performance.
Obviously you can adjust the guesstimates and the numbers come out different. The more broadly optimistic you are about your ability to win command on drawing, the better it looks, and the longer you predict games will run, the better it looks. Also, of course, its not just whether its a net positive to your deck: its whether it performs better than the alternative choice in the same slot, and what shape the deck has to be to accomodate it: in short, by including a load of Chaos Units to facilitate this card, what good Ork and Neutral Units are you cutting?
And finally, of course, there's a hard to quantify but significant advantage in using up a deploy turn on a 0-cost card.
Run your analyses, but I believe at present the Murder Cogitator is close to performing, but is not quite there yet. My advice would be to wait till we can access Ammo Depot, then run three of each along with a Cultist/Daemon heavy build with at least 31 cards of 50 in the deck being Chaos Units.
Obviously I can only agree. Apart from that it remains important to value Chaos by it's strengths. In special Zarathur likes aggressive cards. When cards like Cogitator are included it could draw you more cards but more importantly it doesn't influence the outcome of the upcomming battles.
For what it's worth I play Orks because Ork Kannon is just really good with Zarathur. Archon's Terror currently seems to be the only DE cards you use and in all honesty, if you go that route Incubus Warrior should also be part of your deck...