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Store Champion Tyranid Rave
Submitted by
Hakkor
, Mar 20 2016 05:58 PM | Last updated May 03 2016 08:07 PM
HidaHonk, Asklepios and DrunkenDino like this
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Tyranids
Combo Tournament Quality
Warlord
Order by: NameTypeCost
Total Cards: 0
The deck went surprinsingly well with a Flawless 5-0.
1st Baharroth 5-0: With no areas, the Termagant Hordes worked wonderfully wihle SL and SWP killed the turn 1 guardians. By turn 3, the 5 planets where dominated in command and army units, and the Hawks kepts dying to the Parasitic Infections.
2nd Kith 5-0: This one was the toughest game by my entire fault. She started with two Razorwings. I also dind't realize that, by turn 3, Kith already owned a triple and a double planet. She also punished me with a warpstorm, a klaivex to the Swarm Guard and two consecutive copies of Avetis on turns 3 and 4. Yet, she lacked high hp units and lost, very closely, against a regenerative Biovore that kept teleporting with 2 Mycetic Spores.
3rd Ragnar 5-0: The SL retreated as first combat action in almost every fight, and still ended bloodied. Too much hunting left unattended my increasing swarms, and ultimately the cardinis where routed in the final battle so he couldn't deal with them.
4tg Zogwort 5-0: The second toughest one. Zog is one of the most aggresive warlords in early game. The Venomtrhopes on planets 4 and 5 filled my empty hand every turn (almost no card awarding planets), and thanks to stacking resources I could deploy a swarm by surpirse, using Termagant Hordes and a teleported Guard. A very very close match that forced me to play more defensively than I would have liked.
5th Gorzog 5-0: He was scary in the beginning, but the invaluable Parasitic infections dealt with the Valkiries. Funny since I deployed a Biovore on planet 1 on turn 1 (+a Ripper Swarm). With no routing cards, the monster kept being voltroned turn after turn, until a teleporting, regenerative Biovore with a HVC made my opponent concede.
MVC were definitely the Savage Warrior Prime. He was fantastic with Carnath and Planuum around. Fall Back let me force it safetly to combat and make my opponents waste a lot of resources on him.
Biovores and Parasitic infections are the great underestimated ones. Those two cards, plus the Mycetic spores won me most of the games, letting me adapt to the game.
Sample Hand:
Total Shields: 0
Average Shields Per Event/Attachment: 0
Total Command: 0
Average Command Per Unit: 0
Gorzod needed a Squiggify. Interesting write ups. I would not think Parasitic Infection would do that much work, but you seem to get a lot out of it. How and when did you play it?
Parasitic infection is an awesome and underused card. I was Zogwort in that store, I placed 2nd, my only lost against this Swarmlord deck. Paying 2 seems like a lot, because it's a long term card, but when you realize that this can make 3-4 damage and create the same number of tokens then you start to look at the card differently.
Gorzod had Squiggify, but it was useles once the Biovore had the Heavy Venom Cannon (Aoe2). The Swarmlord out commanded him and locked his card drawal, so he couldn't deploy many units.
I try to play the Infection as fast as I can and, if possible, targeting high HP units. Playing it on 1 hp units is not worth generally. Valkiries die eventualy, usually 2-3 turns. It's a quite decieving card. Every single wound it inflicts creates a Termagant, which should be regarded as it follows:
- If the army unit is in the warlord train, the termagant lets you move in a combat units with Mycetic Spores.
- The termagant is another 1/1 body, probably meaning it will, at least, inflict 1 extra wound if there are more units in the planet.
- In the worse case scenario, it will absorb a hit the would be directed to another unit other wise.
- It can get buffed (once again, Mycetic Spores can bring in a Guardian or Biovore)
- If ignored, it creates a small swarm which is much harder to deal, so it also conditions the warlords comittment.
- It deals with dangerous units that are sitting to win command (like the Brute).
- This effect happens every turn, so the benefit can turn into 4 wounds and 4 termagant token in round 4.
It's just an overall analysis but the card is better than people think. It's a win-win investment that will look poor on turn 1, average on turn 2 and then it only gets better and better. Obviously not a must have, yet it's a very strong option for the Swarmlord.
I get the best use of it provided I have some initial punch thanks to the Savage Warrior Prime. With the Lictor or other non combat focused synapse units I see that investing two resources on a medium term benefit is not so appealing. Still, the Lictor could outcommand a brute while the infection kills it slowly and, in case the warlord shows up, it provides some extra bodies for an eventual fight.
Regarding the double shield issue. I admit it's not always easy and that a single double shield can turn fights. But, after getting used to play without them (even if many in the deck, voluntarily holding them in the hand until they are played for their effect) I found myself playing safer, which is a bonus, i think. Not relying on shield spamming forces you to think your moves twice. In the end, the opponent may also be plenty on shields, so all that wound prevention can lead to the same outcome but with an empty hand.
Moreover, I usually find satisfying to see my Savage Warrior Prime retreating wounded from a fight after my opponent wasted most of his hand in shields to stay healthy. Not always the best outcome, but a nice advantage for the long run.
So check this thinking. You don't generally want to play Infection on a unit at a planet where you are planning to have a fight that same turn. You don't want to kill the unit the same turn you play the Infection if you can avoid needing to do that.
Correct. It usually works like that: ignore the heavily deployed planet (usually planet 1 or 2), infect the high hp commanding unit (Psyker, Brutes, Syren and the like) and snipe another 2 planets with Warlord and the Savage warrior prime. Then, you only need to worry about winning command in a single planet. If you feel comfortable, you can also try to outcommand the infected unit, but you will risk a warlord snipe.
The trick is, always put enough pressure on your opponent so the commitment of the SWP plus a termagant from the Swarmlord at a certain planet, commonly planet 1, forces your opponent to overddeploy or commit their warlord there. Even if he's sure you won't hit planet 1, the doubt will eventually hinder his game with inefficient commitments. Still, I regularly pay the prize of trying too much to outsmart my opponent. I have much to learn yet.
Very glad to hear you did so well there, excellent deck, excellent report.
My only worry here re: higher level tournaments would be that the command strength of this deck is pretty small. Fine if the out-commander is Baharroth, who runs a slow enough game to give you time to build your termagants up, but what do you do against Eldorath command, a Kith choke or (worse of all) a well built Cato deck that can win its card draws and get resources from your deaths?
Of these, I reckon Eldorath will have a lot of trouble once your horde gets going, of course, but I can see it being a hairy early game, both losing planets and command for a turn or two.
Still, results are what counts, and diversity is great for the game. I hope you stick with Swarmlord through the season!
First of all, this deck has performed well. I won very roughly, against another good Kith player in a previous tournament. I lost the tournament with a 3-1, after a really unlucky turn where I had Zarathur completely choked, and he drew his only 2 bloodletters. Instead going with the elite way, I tried the swarm guard way and lost all my horde.
Every card has performed amazingly. The ones I'd think about changing would be the Tyranid Warrior (in previous versions, it was a Pyrovore) which is just for the extra command and a solid body. The Termagant Sentry is nice, but I'd switch it for a better 1 drop in a future. Still, it's pretty nice with a couple of tokens. The sentry hits, and now the opponent has to choose: kill the sentry and let the tokens hit, or kill a token and let the sentry hit again. That extra damage, specially vs. warlord snipe ends up being quite useful. The toxic venomthrope is also a filler, but it's so useful and has gave me so many games that I'd hardly put it away.
Fall back was ALWAYS an excellent card. The best backup you could have to go aggresive with the Savage Warrior Prime. Every resource and card the opponent wastes to kill it are compensated with this card. Also, you can maximum troll your opponent when facing Klaivex/Fury os Sicarius, or any other removal: let your Biovore die, bring it back with Fall Back and teleport it with the Spores again into battle or a favourable planet. It's magic!
The termagant number is a delicate issue. The deck provides you with the sufficient number of them, but no more. You need to carefully spam them in the right time. I'd say the deck performance is so delicate you feel like a real surgeon. You can't allow any misplays. If your warlord gets bloodied, or the Infected army units die prematurely or you Termagant Hordes die quickly (or don't see game) you can forget about spawning tokens and half the deck falls appart. You can still win, but the chances are odd.
The deck doesn't rely on hive mind units. I'd say Hive Mind units benefit from termagant tokens. A turn 1 swarm guard with a termagant token is tougher than it looks, even more if the SWP shows up. Even more, in many games I find my self praying for some Hive Mind goodness after I deployed the Mycetic Spores.
I have to admit the deck usually needs to let the opponent win 1-2 planets (not the first planets, but it must happen eventually).
Asklepios, I know you regard this deck as low on command, but it's not. Having 2 snipers per turn makes easy prey out of the cheap command cappers. It's really worth letting your opponent focus on first planets, fearing a sudden SWP + termagant token + possible mycetic spore teleport. Meanwhile, you destroy his command line and make use of planets like Aatrox Prime, Planuum, Balrus and others to choke your opponent further in army units and cards.
The deck shouldn't really work, after some paper math and current deck comparison. But I does, eventually. I still can't figure out how and why. Still, I have to face a good Worr deck. I don't know if I'll choose this deck for the coming Regional on May 30th.
With the new packs out, for the time being I'd change nothing. I still have to test the cards, but until other Hive Mind units come out to make some changes, I think it will stay like that. Promotion was a last minute change. I used the Breeding Chamners before, but found I needed something more solid, particularly because the Chambers don't work with the Synapse unit or tokens (they still won me a couple of games before, used on Biovores for Ranged, Aoe or Brutal). I think that Promotion will be taken out as soon as other 0-1 costed event-support-attachment that works with termagants or Hive Minds come out.
thanks for taking the time to reply about this deck, its interesting as another Tyranid , (mainly Swarmlord) player. I have built something similar but sadly have played Morn 3 times in a row and lost by turn 1 or 2. She has countered everything with the new Kabilites or Klavex leaving me with nothing. I did not find the DE players feared anything I did, even a T1 termagant + tyranid warrior + Warrior Prime vs just Morn herself.
She may be just plain lucky, or wasted all her resources fighting it. Anyway, I haven't played against her, and I recall hunt decks are Swarmlord's bane. If there's any general advice I could spare, it's that you can't go wrong playing safe (sometimes it's not even enough, but the deck needs to have a weakness)
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14 Comments
Didn't you have any problems with the high aboundance of two shield cards in your deck?
Parasitic infection is an awesome and underused card. I was Zogwort in that store, I placed 2nd, my only lost against this Swarmlord deck. Paying 2 seems like a lot, because it's a long term card, but when you realize that this can make 3-4 damage and create the same number of tokens then you start to look at the card differently.
Gorzod had Squiggify, but it was useles once the Biovore had the Heavy Venom Cannon (Aoe2). The Swarmlord out commanded him and locked his card drawal, so he couldn't deploy many units.
I try to play the Infection as fast as I can and, if possible, targeting high HP units. Playing it on 1 hp units is not worth generally. Valkiries die eventualy, usually 2-3 turns. It's a quite decieving card. Every single wound it inflicts creates a Termagant, which should be regarded as it follows:
- If the army unit is in the warlord train, the termagant lets you move in a combat units with Mycetic Spores.
- The termagant is another 1/1 body, probably meaning it will, at least, inflict 1 extra wound if there are more units in the planet.
- In the worse case scenario, it will absorb a hit the would be directed to another unit other wise.
- It can get buffed (once again, Mycetic Spores can bring in a Guardian or Biovore)
- If ignored, it creates a small swarm which is much harder to deal, so it also conditions the warlords comittment.
- It deals with dangerous units that are sitting to win command (like the Brute).
- This effect happens every turn, so the benefit can turn into 4 wounds and 4 termagant token in round 4.
It's just an overall analysis but the card is better than people think. It's a win-win investment that will look poor on turn 1, average on turn 2 and then it only gets better and better. Obviously not a must have, yet it's a very strong option for the Swarmlord.
Thanks for the response on Infection. I am absolutely going to give it a try in my next game with Swarmlord.
I get the best use of it provided I have some initial punch thanks to the Savage Warrior Prime. With the Lictor or other non combat focused synapse units I see that investing two resources on a medium term benefit is not so appealing. Still, the Lictor could outcommand a brute while the infection kills it slowly and, in case the warlord shows up, it provides some extra bodies for an eventual fight.
Regarding the double shield issue. I admit it's not always easy and that a single double shield can turn fights. But, after getting used to play without them (even if many in the deck, voluntarily holding them in the hand until they are played for their effect) I found myself playing safer, which is a bonus, i think. Not relying on shield spamming forces you to think your moves twice. In the end, the opponent may also be plenty on shields, so all that wound prevention can lead to the same outcome but with an empty hand.
Moreover, I usually find satisfying to see my Savage Warrior Prime retreating wounded from a fight after my opponent wasted most of his hand in shields to stay healthy. Not always the best outcome, but a nice advantage for the long run.
So check this thinking. You don't generally want to play Infection on a unit at a planet where you are planning to have a fight that same turn. You don't want to kill the unit the same turn you play the Infection if you can avoid needing to do that.
Correct. It usually works like that: ignore the heavily deployed planet (usually planet 1 or 2), infect the high hp commanding unit (Psyker, Brutes, Syren and the like) and snipe another 2 planets with Warlord and the Savage warrior prime. Then, you only need to worry about winning command in a single planet. If you feel comfortable, you can also try to outcommand the infected unit, but you will risk a warlord snipe.
The trick is, always put enough pressure on your opponent so the commitment of the SWP plus a termagant from the Swarmlord at a certain planet, commonly planet 1, forces your opponent to overddeploy or commit their warlord there. Even if he's sure you won't hit planet 1, the doubt will eventually hinder his game with inefficient commitments. Still, I regularly pay the prize of trying too much to outsmart my opponent. I have much to learn yet.
I really like this deck are there any parts of it you would change or any units that didn't perform ?
was fall back worth it ?
do you find you had enough termagants for the hive mind units ?
do you feel you have to many hivemind units ?
sorry for all the questions but I like the swarmlord and am always looking for ways to improve my deck
Very glad to hear you did so well there, excellent deck, excellent report.
My only worry here re: higher level tournaments would be that the command strength of this deck is pretty small. Fine if the out-commander is Baharroth, who runs a slow enough game to give you time to build your termagants up, but what do you do against Eldorath command, a Kith choke or (worse of all) a well built Cato deck that can win its card draws and get resources from your deaths?
Of these, I reckon Eldorath will have a lot of trouble once your horde gets going, of course, but I can see it being a hairy early game, both losing planets and command for a turn or two.
Still, results are what counts, and diversity is great for the game. I hope you stick with Swarmlord through the season!
First of all, this deck has performed well. I won very roughly, against another good Kith player in a previous tournament. I lost the tournament with a 3-1, after a really unlucky turn where I had Zarathur completely choked, and he drew his only 2 bloodletters. Instead going with the elite way, I tried the swarm guard way and lost all my horde.
Every card has performed amazingly. The ones I'd think about changing would be the Tyranid Warrior (in previous versions, it was a Pyrovore) which is just for the extra command and a solid body. The Termagant Sentry is nice, but I'd switch it for a better 1 drop in a future. Still, it's pretty nice with a couple of tokens. The sentry hits, and now the opponent has to choose: kill the sentry and let the tokens hit, or kill a token and let the sentry hit again. That extra damage, specially vs. warlord snipe ends up being quite useful. The toxic venomthrope is also a filler, but it's so useful and has gave me so many games that I'd hardly put it away.
Fall back was ALWAYS an excellent card. The best backup you could have to go aggresive with the Savage Warrior Prime. Every resource and card the opponent wastes to kill it are compensated with this card. Also, you can maximum troll your opponent when facing Klaivex/Fury os Sicarius, or any other removal: let your Biovore die, bring it back with Fall Back and teleport it with the Spores again into battle or a favourable planet. It's magic!
The termagant number is a delicate issue. The deck provides you with the sufficient number of them, but no more. You need to carefully spam them in the right time. I'd say the deck performance is so delicate you feel like a real surgeon. You can't allow any misplays. If your warlord gets bloodied, or the Infected army units die prematurely or you Termagant Hordes die quickly (or don't see game) you can forget about spawning tokens and half the deck falls appart. You can still win, but the chances are odd.
The deck doesn't rely on hive mind units. I'd say Hive Mind units benefit from termagant tokens. A turn 1 swarm guard with a termagant token is tougher than it looks, even more if the SWP shows up. Even more, in many games I find my self praying for some Hive Mind goodness after I deployed the Mycetic Spores.
I have to admit the deck usually needs to let the opponent win 1-2 planets (not the first planets, but it must happen eventually).
Asklepios, I know you regard this deck as low on command, but it's not. Having 2 snipers per turn makes easy prey out of the cheap command cappers. It's really worth letting your opponent focus on first planets, fearing a sudden SWP + termagant token + possible mycetic spore teleport. Meanwhile, you destroy his command line and make use of planets like Aatrox Prime, Planuum, Balrus and others to choke your opponent further in army units and cards.
The deck shouldn't really work, after some paper math and current deck comparison. But I does, eventually. I still can't figure out how and why. Still, I have to face a good Worr deck. I don't know if I'll choose this deck for the coming Regional on May 30th.
With the new packs out, for the time being I'd change nothing. I still have to test the cards, but until other Hive Mind units come out to make some changes, I think it will stay like that. Promotion was a last minute change. I used the Breeding Chamners before, but found I needed something more solid, particularly because the Chambers don't work with the Synapse unit or tokens (they still won me a couple of games before, used on Biovores for Ranged, Aoe or Brutal). I think that Promotion will be taken out as soon as other 0-1 costed event-support-attachment that works with termagants or Hive Minds come out.
thanks for taking the time to reply about this deck, its interesting as another Tyranid , (mainly Swarmlord) player. I have built something similar but sadly have played Morn 3 times in a row and lost by turn 1 or 2. She has countered everything with the new Kabilites or Klavex leaving me with nothing. I did not find the DE players feared anything I did, even a T1 termagant + tyranid warrior + Warrior Prime vs just Morn herself.
She may be just plain lucky, or wasted all her resources fighting it. Anyway, I haven't played against her, and I recall hunt decks are Swarmlord's bane. If there's any general advice I could spare, it's that you can't go wrong playing safe (sometimes it's not even enough, but the deck needs to have a weakness)