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Straken/Ork Hunt/Aggro
Submitted by
Cimadon
, Jun 29 2015 10:19 AM | Last updated Dec 06 2015 07:08 PM
Atrus and Gosgosh like this
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Astra Militarum Orks
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Straken is IMO the nr. 1 Hunt Warlord. A Serious take on the AM Hunt Archtype. Updated with the one I used in the recent Hive Tyrant vids. -1 Ogryn -1 Caius, +1 Rokkit Launcha
Warlord
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Total Cards: 0
So, a hunt deck in Conquest. AM is the best faction for this (IMO) because of one keyword: Ranged. So they have the best kind of ranged in preemptive barrage: Surprise Ranged. :) Furthermore they have Ratling Deadeye as a cheap ranged guy.
The other thing you need is spike damage, here comes Catachan Outpost and Evil Sunz Warbikers into play.
The third thing you need is flexibility/suprise in dropping units: Staging Ground, Elysian's.
All of this is fairly straight forward. Some would say Aun'shi is better, but they don't know what they are talking about. ;) But that's not to say that Aun-shi can't hunt, because he can.
Anyways, the Strategy:
Mulligan: I would almost always mulligan for Ammo Depot. Unless your hand is stellar. You need extra cards and rarely resources. (4 a turn can get you really far, and the deck is made for only that).
Command: You are probably only going to win one command struggle a turn (unless your first draw is a little lucky), so go for cards until you get ammo depot, then go for resources. But to be honest, commit more for planet abilities and other variables (Boostin units, getting enough AM units an all planets for PB to be better).
Combat generally: Basically make it so that there is no where the other warlord can go without the fear of some hurt. You want to go for the warlord as much as you can. Also save the No Mercy (if drawn) for either bloodying or killing the other warlord. Only use a shield if you can get a big hit on the other warlord or if saving a bloodied Straken. Watch out for Iridal and possibly Carnath, as those planets ruin your strategy. Oh and Preemptive is your finisher/bloodier, use it to kill the other warlord. Other than that there are two ways to do combat and those depend on the flop: 1: The first 3-4 planets have a matching icon. 2: you can't win until the 5th planet
1: Go heavely on the first 2-3 planets every turn and go for the win on planet icons. If the opposing warlord shows up, do a risk/reward assesment on what to attack (Warlord or troublesome unit(s)).
2: Spread your forces and do your best at keeping your units alive. So stack heavely on those or plan to commit to them. Save your Staging Grounds/Elysian's for the planet with the other warlord. And ALWAYS attack him!
This is generally what you wanna do, but there could be alot of things that suddenly forces you to do other things. Everything also depends on what cards you have in hand and what warlord you play. But you get the idea.
UPDATE: 1 Mystic Wardens and 1 Goff Boys out, 1 Caius and 2 Emperor's Warrant in. Gonna test this deck with 51 cards until i know what to cut.
Sample Hand:
Total Shields: 0
Average Shields Per Event/Attachment: 0
Total Command: 0
Average Command Per Unit: 0
Thoughts: An earlier rendition of the deck had 2 Honorifica imperialis and -1 No Mercy -1 Catachan. This could still be a solid play, but i wanted to have the extra catachan and the no mercy is sooo clutch, people don't expect it.
I have thought about including one copy of Caius Wroth as I'm almost always around 3-4 cards in hand, and the other player can muster up a pretty big hand because of the lack of command.
Don't write this deck off without trying it. It works and worked when we only had core (Preemptive barrage and Elysians was enough), but it is much better now, with the new ork units, Staging ground and Ammo Depot. So the AM hunt archtype is back. better than ever.
Seems solid, but a good number of your fighty Units are orks, which can't Barrage. However, I see that they match up well with Staging Ground.
Nothing wrong with your overall approach though - looks to be a very solid hunt paradigm.
It's split AM 19/11 Ork. But they are too good to not include and there aren't any good alternatives. Some of them could be replaced with AM soldier/warrior units , when/if they come out. But yeah, i think there is anough AM units to validate the Preemptive Barrage's and keeping the treacherous Orks for the Warrior synergy with Straken.
Yes, basically looking at higher cost AMs to lever more out of Barrage, and that can get in the way of Staging, so in a 3x Staging deck I'd keep it pretty much as it is.
As a thought though, I'd say that while EAT is a Straken mainstay, the presence of them plus Goff Boyz plus Wardens does make for a low command experience, and of those three EAT is the least desirable one for Staging. I'd be inclined to drop those for 2 Markis, 1 Snake Bite Thug.
Markis gives you an extra body for No Mercy, as well as being dead handy in his own right and another 3 damage on Barrage. Snakebite Thug is, as you say, too good not to include... so take another one!
I know EAT is great, but you'd be adding 5 command icons, more damage output, 1 more practically stageable unit and more flexibility. For sure, you can't stage in Markis, but honestly I think you've got a high enough density of stageable units to present the intended threat.
I don't think 5 icons would do much. Command is not the main strategy of this deck. But I agree that I have thought of including one Markis for one more mercy trigger.
This deck needs ALL the ambush it can get, there is no way the Elysians are getting cut. But not a bad suggestion at all.
I think there is a very good command deck with Straken, but this is not it.
Thanks for taking the time to look at my deck. :-) Appreciate it.
Good deck! I run very similar deck with few tweaks:
-1 Staging Ground
+1 Inquisitor Caius Wroth
+2 Emperor's Warrant
-2 Ogryn
+1 Snake Bite Thug
For me Ogryn's ability is very occasionally used. His stats are not very good so I have only one copy just in case I have many catachans and want to hit warlord from staging ground.
I have more 2 shields cards to increase ammo depot consistency.
And I also included Inquisitor in case my opponent does not want to be hunted down
But I am not sure of that decision, have only 2 occasions to use it (in both cases it turned game to my favor).
Those a some great tweaks. Love the single copy of Caius. I couldn't go down to 2 Staging Ground's though, they are too good in this archtype.
Oh, and the emperors warrant is a nice include when you think about it.
2 shields and when your opponent realises that you are trying to hunt him, he will try to not go where straken goes and therefore you can trigger the ability more to protect straken.
Just won my first game with this new iteration of the deck against Ragnar/AM. Warlord kill on the 1st planet turn 6! Caius was a game changer. Emperor's Warrant was harder to trigger because of Ragnar wanting to commit close to 1st planet alot, and he had his signature attachment on. But played it one time after bloodying him. :-)
One thing to note, had I not killed him he would have won on planet icons.
I think one copy of squig bombing could work, but I wanna focus the build alot on the main strategy (hunt) as much as I can. Besides what would you cut?
And for the Ogryn hate, when you get your triple catachan beefed army unit Archon's terror'd, you miss them alot. ;-) He is also a PB target, would hate to go lower than the AM unit count that I have now. Would probably replace at least one set of Ork units with a <2 Cost AM unit when that comes out.
If you actually get a triple Catachan unit Terror'd, thats on you for sloppy play. Don't turn all 3 sideways at once and then either ask if your opponent has an action or try to attack. Following the rules closely works to your advantage. Exhaust 1 catachan, then ask your opponent if they have an action. Now they have to make an immediate decision on whether or not to terror--if they do, you have 2 outposts left. If they don't, you can attack right away with a single boost on the unit because they declined their action. Or if you want to gamble, you can then exhaust a 2nd catachan and ask again. The triple catachan boost into Terror shouldn't ever happen though, unless you're sloppy or they're crazy enough to risk the +4 damage swing to the face in the hopes of getting maximum theoretical impact.
Nobody is turning 3 catachans sideways at the same time, that would be illegal. Please don't assume i'm a novice player and give me obvious lessons on game mechanics in a game I have played 300+ times from the start.
So there is only two reasons for the triple pump? Sloppy play or opponent risking it. Wow. I don't think you know as much about Conquest as you think you do.
And for the record nobody does that alot, only when you have to. When the game is on the line (do it or lose). If I can pump Straken or a unique unit/Ogryn I do that.
But thanks for the "input".
Cimadon: I still see no use for stalwart ogryn. There are no great event to be afraid (except terror) which can be easily avoided (or forced into) as Sokhar said.
Cimadon: I still see no use for stalwart ogryn. There are no great event to be afraid (except terror) which can be easily avoided (or forced into) as Sokhar said.
You should add the 3rd snakebite thug.
One card keeps the Ogryns in the deck: Preemptive barrage and as stated before, losing 2 targets isn't worth it.
Further more he is immune to the 3 soft resets, dakka dakka, cacophonic choir, Squiggify (Which actually get's played in my meta), and more. So I don't agree that there are no great events other than Archon's terror. Of course if you only play against DE, I can see where you are coming from, but that is not the case in Copenhagen.
In a strict "snakebite thug vs ogryn" scenario (stat and ability) I would probably choose the snakebite, but that is almost never the way to look at cards, you need to look at other cards too, in this case Preemptive barrage.
I'm not saying he is the best card in the deck, but he is needed.
But... all the events you said can be easily "outplayed" by a "smart" game. I mean, it's more effecient to play good cards than play bad cards just to prevent possibile nasty events (which are not that strong nowdays).
Cimadon, that wasn't a personal attack against you, and I didn't question your experience level. Sorry you view that sequence as obvious because I've seen plenty of players try to use multiple Catachans at once, and the proper sequence of action windows was something I saw people making mistakes on even at my local regional. And I said that the triple pump Archon's should only happen if someone is sloppy or taking inordinate risk, not that its never a good idea to try the triple pump.
Thanks for posting the deck, I found it interesting. I won't disturb the sanctity of your comment section anymore though because apparently discussing strategy prompts hysterical ranting. Good luck with Straken.
Firstly, you completely avoided the main reason he is in the deck (Preemptive Barrage).
Secondly, easily "outplayed" by a "smart" game... Seems like you have the whole Conquest thing down. Or was the quotations for sarcasm? then I have no idea what you meant?
I mean, it's more effecient to play good cards than play bad cards just to prevent possibile nasty events (which are not that strong nowdays).
And here is where we differ.
I don't think that the Ogryn is a bad card, and to be honest you have no grasp of what's strong and what's not in my area. Cards power value depends on what else get's played in the meta.
Dakka Dakka/Cacophonic Choir are both strong in a glasscannon/command cap/swarm meta (DE, Void Pirate, Rogue Trader, Eldar), Squiggify is strong when there is big attack dudes. Ogryn get's stronger the more events are present in the meta.
Also, I'll refer to this paragraph in my last post: In a strict "snakebite thug vs ogryn" scenario (stat and ability) I would probably choose the snakebite, but that is almost never the way to look at cards, you need to look at other cards too, in this case Preemptive barrage.
Cimadon, that wasn't a personal attack against you, and I didn't question your experience level. Sorry you view that sequence as obvious because I've seen plenty of players try to use multiple Catachans at once, and the proper sequence of action windows was something I saw people making mistakes on even at my local regional. And I said that the triple pump Archon's should only happen if someone is sloppy or taking inordinate risk, not that its never a good idea to try the triple pump. Thanks for posting the deck, I found it interesting. I won't disturb the sanctity of your comment section anymore though because apparently discussing strategy prompts hysterical ranting. Good luck with Straken.
"If you actually get a triple Catachan unit Terror'd, thats on you for sloppy play." This made me think of it as a personal attack. I'm glad it wasn't and apologise for my counter attack. sincerely.
I'm all for discussing strategies, the only reason i went on a "hysterical rant" as you so put it, was that I thought that you attacked me.
For the record, I get furious when people post in "black and white". So sometimes i overreact.
Cimadon, I'd like to hear your thoughts on building something like this with Worr. Would you still consider Straken as the stronger choice for an AM Hunt deck?
Cimadon, I'd like to hear your thoughts on building something like this with Worr. Would you still consider Straken as the stronger choice for an AM Hunt deck?
I haven't played Worr yet, sadly, but yes, he could be a better choice for the AM Hunt Archetype. His sig squad is almost as good as Straken's, he doesn't have a way of protecting himself like Straken does (Glorious Intervention), but otherwise he has a great squad for hunting. + His ability (depending on flop) is stellar for keeping your big hitting units at the planets.
Then there is the question of how many Ork units to bring, this deck has alot of the good ones and Worr would probably prefer them to be AM. Only problem is AM doesn't have any units that can replace the Thug or the Bikers.
I say try it, I know I will when I get my hands on him.
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Thoughts: An earlier rendition of the deck had 2 Honorifica imperialis and -1 No Mercy -1 Catachan. This could still be a solid play, but i wanted to have the extra catachan and the no mercy is sooo clutch, people don't expect it.
I have thought about including one copy of Caius Wroth as I'm almost always around 3-4 cards in hand, and the other player can muster up a pretty big hand because of the lack of command.
Don't write this deck off without trying it. It works and worked when we only had core (Preemptive barrage and Elysians was enough), but it is much better now, with the new ork units, Staging ground and Ammo Depot. So the AM hunt archtype is back. better than ever.
Seems solid, but a good number of your fighty Units are orks, which can't Barrage. However, I see that they match up well with Staging Ground.
Nothing wrong with your overall approach though - looks to be a very solid hunt paradigm.
It's split AM 19/11 Ork. But they are too good to not include and there aren't any good alternatives. Some of them could be replaced with AM soldier/warrior units , when/if they come out. But yeah, i think there is anough AM units to validate the Preemptive Barrage's and keeping the treacherous Orks for the Warrior synergy with Straken.
Yes, basically looking at higher cost AMs to lever more out of Barrage, and that can get in the way of Staging, so in a 3x Staging deck I'd keep it pretty much as it is.
As a thought though, I'd say that while EAT is a Straken mainstay, the presence of them plus Goff Boyz plus Wardens does make for a low command experience, and of those three EAT is the least desirable one for Staging. I'd be inclined to drop those for 2 Markis, 1 Snake Bite Thug.
Markis gives you an extra body for No Mercy, as well as being dead handy in his own right and another 3 damage on Barrage. Snakebite Thug is, as you say, too good not to include... so take another one!
I know EAT is great, but you'd be adding 5 command icons, more damage output, 1 more practically stageable unit and more flexibility. For sure, you can't stage in Markis, but honestly I think you've got a high enough density of stageable units to present the intended threat.
Sure, there's no doubt EAT is a good card for Straken conventionally, more poking around different ideas!
Pleasure to look at your decks, as always.
Good deck! I run very similar deck with few tweaks:
-1 Staging Ground
+1 Inquisitor Caius Wroth
+2 Emperor's Warrant
-2 Ogryn
+1 Snake Bite Thug
For me Ogryn's ability is very occasionally used. His stats are not very good so I have only one copy just in case I have many catachans and want to hit warlord from staging ground.
I have more 2 shields cards to increase ammo depot consistency.
And I also included Inquisitor in case my opponent does not want to be hunted down
But I am not sure of that decision, have only 2 occasions to use it (in both cases it turned game to my favor).
Those a some great tweaks. Love the single copy of Caius. I couldn't go down to 2 Staging Ground's though, they are too good in this archtype.
Oh, and the emperors warrant is a nice include when you think about it.
2 shields and when your opponent realises that you are trying to hunt him, he will try to not go where straken goes and therefore you can trigger the ability more to protect straken.
Aaand Caius gives you another body for the No Mercy.
Did not thought about caius in terms of another body for no mercy but it sounds very cool.
I included him mainly for his great ability. With this deck you always have at most 4 cards in hand (apart from 1st round).
Emperor's Warrant really combo well but in most cases I simply did not have money for it(used as shield).
I decided to go down to 2 Staging Grounds to minimize risk of bad draw. Maybe It is my bad luck but I had lots of hands with small amount
of units and 2-3 staging grounds.
And don't think we need them so much, there is also preemptive barrage and elysian assault team.
And btw i know what to cut, Omega Zero Command, but that would be cheating.
But in all seriousness, that card is played 0% no matter when you get it. A dead card, in the truest meaning of the word.
That's true. I play Omega when I have it in first hand and do not play against eldar
I've been testing with 3 stagings, it worked really good!
This event to destroy support could also be worth to consider.
Had many situations when I needed it very much.
Cimadon: I still see no use for stalwart ogryn. There are no great event to be afraid (except terror) which can be easily avoided (or forced into) as Sokhar said.
You should add the 3rd snakebite thug.
One card keeps the Ogryns in the deck: Preemptive barrage and as stated before, losing 2 targets isn't worth it.
Further more he is immune to the 3 soft resets, dakka dakka, cacophonic choir, Squiggify (Which actually get's played in my meta), and more. So I don't agree that there are no great events other than Archon's terror. Of course if you only play against DE, I can see where you are coming from, but that is not the case in Copenhagen.
In a strict "snakebite thug vs ogryn" scenario (stat and ability) I would probably choose the snakebite, but that is almost never the way to look at cards, you need to look at other cards too, in this case Preemptive barrage.
I'm not saying he is the best card in the deck, but he is needed.
But... all the events you said can be easily "outplayed" by a "smart" game. I mean, it's more effecient to play good cards than play bad cards just to prevent possibile nasty events (which are not that strong nowdays).
Firstly, you completely avoided the main reason he is in the deck (Preemptive Barrage).
Secondly, easily "outplayed" by a "smart" game... Seems like you have the whole Conquest thing down. Or was the quotations for sarcasm? then I have no idea what you meant?
And here is where we differ.
I don't think that the Ogryn is a bad card, and to be honest you have no grasp of what's strong and what's not in my area. Cards power value depends on what else get's played in the meta.
Dakka Dakka/Cacophonic Choir are both strong in a glasscannon/command cap/swarm meta (DE, Void Pirate, Rogue Trader, Eldar), Squiggify is strong when there is big attack dudes. Ogryn get's stronger the more events are present in the meta.
Also, I'll refer to this paragraph in my last post: In a strict "snakebite thug vs ogryn" scenario (stat and ability) I would probably choose the snakebite, but that is almost never the way to look at cards, you need to look at other cards too, in this case Preemptive barrage.
"If you actually get a triple Catachan unit Terror'd, thats on you for sloppy play." This made me think of it as a personal attack. I'm glad it wasn't and apologise for my counter attack. sincerely.
I'm all for discussing strategies, the only reason i went on a "hysterical rant" as you so put it, was that I thought that you attacked me.
For the record, I get furious when people post in "black and white". So sometimes i overreact.
Cimadon, I'd like to hear your thoughts on building something like this with Worr. Would you still consider Straken as the stronger choice for an AM Hunt deck?
I haven't played Worr yet, sadly, but yes, he could be a better choice for the AM Hunt Archetype. His sig squad is almost as good as Straken's, he doesn't have a way of protecting himself like Straken does (Glorious Intervention), but otherwise he has a great squad for hunting. + His ability (depending on flop) is stellar for keeping your big hitting units at the planets.
Then there is the question of how many Ork units to bring, this deck has alot of the good ones and Worr would probably prefer them to be AM. Only problem is AM doesn't have any units that can replace the Thug or the Bikers.
I say try it, I know I will when I get my hands on him.