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Urien Obsession
Submitted by
Asklepios
, Dec 09 2015 04:27 PM | Last updated Dec 10 2015 05:20 PM
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Dark Eldar Eldar
Experimental
Warlord
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Total Cards: 0
Urien isn't the best warlord, in fact he's probably the worst one. However, nature of the game is such that the best and worst warlords are pretty close together.
Here's my strategy thoughts on currently optimised Urien, though others may disagree.
ARMY UNITS:
Much as I like Chaos for the extra 2-for-2, I've been persuaded that Urien needs the extra combat bite for the early and mid-game, which is provided by Warlock Destructor.
Revenant is also a nice addition, as it generally isn't arduous for Urien to win command struggles, while it is hard to generate combat presence.
ATTACHMENTS:
Suffering remains my Torture of choice, played as shield 75% of the time, but actually surprisingly useful as an attachment.
EVENTS
Here's the deviant bit:
The best tortures are Power From Pain and Visions of Agony. However - and this is a big however - they're still not as good as the events that most warlords can access.
My take on it is that there is only one Torture Event that is truly solid, and that is Soul Seizures, which can turn a battle around, but is so expensive and specific its limited to late game.
This deck aims to play no Torture Events except Soul Seizure and Experimentations. Instead, Searing Brand is there to be used as a 2-shielder 95% of the time.
So the deck's goal is this: win command as hard as possible. Most of the strength of this deck is end-loaded, with Soul Seizure and Klaivex providing endgame bite, and shields doing the rest.
The faster the planet array, the harder this deck has to work.
Sample Hand:
Total Shields: 0
Average Shields Per Event/Attachment: 0
Total Command: 0
Average Command Per Unit: 0
Whilst I disagree on your evaluation of the other Torture events, the deck looks interesting. I'd be curious to know as to whether going all out into the combat side of things actually works, but it does mean that the Ichor Gauntlet loses a lot of its value (although it is a 1-50 card).
Right, I like Gauntleted-Power-From-Pain as much as anyone, but the set-up isn't easy, and I've always found it sees play as a 3-shielder 95% of the time. The only occasions I've felt the urge to play it really is when I draw it in late game and a megacombo has presented itself: usually involving Soul Seizure.
This deck is as yet untested, and may be entirely useless. Its just me trying to make Urien work, as I've always found he has not enough hitting power in his decks. You can accrue all the card advantage you like, but if you can't kill stuff and stop yourself being killed, you lose the game.
Very true points, however Power from Pain is still a strong card if you plan your attacks well. Sometimes I go for the command snipe just to whittle down their units so that my Power from Pain is more effective, even if it's just 1 unit sacrificed. The Gauntlet is not played in about 30% of my games, either because it's used as a shield or just not found, but when I do get it I make good use of it. Then there's always the fun "I'm alone at a planet and have multiple x. Have fun" when the Gauntlet comes out.
My only concern with your deck is just the lack of torture optimisation. It feels like, other than the experimentations, you're just using Urien's ability for Soul Seizure, which feels awfully specific. Do give it a shot though, it'll be interesting to see how it goes.
Whilst I disagree on your evaluation of the other Torture events, the deck looks interesting. I'd be curious to know as to whether going all out into the combat side of things actually works, but it does mean that the Ichor Gauntlet loses a lot of its value (although it is a 1-50 card).
On the contrary, I think his evaluation is pretty accurate.
Join the Soul Seizure Bandwagon today and you get a 20% discount off of Urien Rakarth merchandise!
My only concern with your deck is just the lack of torture optimisation. It feels like, other than the experimentations, you're just using Urien's ability for Soul Seizure, which feels awfully specific. Do give it a shot though, it'll be interesting to see how it goes.
I started with the intuitive idea that as many tortures as possible, optimised as much as possible was the way to go. I've ended here, because I recognise that the overall deckshape for that approach kind of works, but is still worse than the optimal deckshape of so many other warlords. Its not so much about being as Urien-as-Urien can be, but rather making a deck that can compete.
Its a bit like with Ragnar: the optimal Ragnar shape is one that uses his unique strengths, but doesn't obsess on them. A pure hunt-the-warlord assassination approach is not as good as one which plays for a broad command game, wide combat presence and bullying pressure.
So with Urien, the theory is this:
1) Urien is actually better at command than Kith. Between the 8 card hand, the 0-cost deploy delays, and so-on, emergent play shows Kith plays a noticeably stronger command game.
2) A strong command game benefits from heavy 2-shielder presence in the deck.
3) Urien tends to lack closing power: Soul Seizure is actually a really good fix for this: a combat surprise as good as Archon's Terror, though of course a worse card because of its cost.
Thats not to say there's not a different approach to Urien around: Urien-choke exists too, as is Urien-mill, but overall I just find the general shape of this deck is more consistent in getting wins.
Your points are very valid and I don't disagree with any of them. I've never argued against Soul Seizure (in fact I'm a big fan of the card), I just thought that it being the only Torture trick in the deck was limiting Urien's effectiveness. I just feel that the deck is somewhat ... safe. That's obviously not saying that it's bad, and I'm sure this deck sees success, it's just that you're relying on strength and shields to get through rather than any tricks (other than the Klaivex + SS), and in that case you may as well be playing Nazdreg.
But that's one thing I love about this game. What works for one person might not work for another, as well as the converse. I, personally, see this deck as a safe middle-ground that has a strong unit selection but lacks tech, whereas you see Urien's torture tech as being strong but hard to set up, hence the reliance of units. Both will do well in the hands of player that can use them, but both will equally do terribly for a player that can't.
I think I agree with Kaloo on this one: it's not that this deck is bad, but it's just no Urien-y enough to make me want to play it instead of, say, Straken. All boils down to what one thinks is fun, of course.
I also have to say so far I've never felt the thrill of trying a Urien deck, because everytime I get a cool idea it involves playing a non-torture event. Like: "Ok, I want to attempt the perfect choke, let's put Superiority and Subdual in! Oh wait... ...Mmm no Archon's Terror in either... NEEDZ MOAR TORTURES!".
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7 Comments
Whilst I disagree on your evaluation of the other Torture events, the deck looks interesting. I'd be curious to know as to whether going all out into the combat side of things actually works, but it does mean that the Ichor Gauntlet loses a lot of its value (although it is a 1-50 card).
Right, I like Gauntleted-Power-From-Pain as much as anyone, but the set-up isn't easy, and I've always found it sees play as a 3-shielder 95% of the time. The only occasions I've felt the urge to play it really is when I draw it in late game and a megacombo has presented itself: usually involving Soul Seizure.
This deck is as yet untested, and may be entirely useless. Its just me trying to make Urien work, as I've always found he has not enough hitting power in his decks. You can accrue all the card advantage you like, but if you can't kill stuff and stop yourself being killed, you lose the game.
Very true points, however Power from Pain is still a strong card if you plan your attacks well. Sometimes I go for the command snipe just to whittle down their units so that my Power from Pain is more effective, even if it's just 1 unit sacrificed. The Gauntlet is not played in about 30% of my games, either because it's used as a shield or just not found, but when I do get it I make good use of it. Then there's always the fun "I'm alone at a planet and have multiple x. Have fun" when the Gauntlet comes out.
My only concern with your deck is just the lack of torture optimisation. It feels like, other than the experimentations, you're just using Urien's ability for Soul Seizure, which feels awfully specific. Do give it a shot though, it'll be interesting to see how it goes.
On the contrary, I think his evaluation is pretty accurate.
Join the Soul Seizure Bandwagon today and you get a 20% discount off of Urien Rakarth merchandise!
I started with the intuitive idea that as many tortures as possible, optimised as much as possible was the way to go. I've ended here, because I recognise that the overall deckshape for that approach kind of works, but is still worse than the optimal deckshape of so many other warlords. Its not so much about being as Urien-as-Urien can be, but rather making a deck that can compete.
Its a bit like with Ragnar: the optimal Ragnar shape is one that uses his unique strengths, but doesn't obsess on them. A pure hunt-the-warlord assassination approach is not as good as one which plays for a broad command game, wide combat presence and bullying pressure.
So with Urien, the theory is this:
1) Urien is actually better at command than Kith. Between the 8 card hand, the 0-cost deploy delays, and so-on, emergent play shows Kith plays a noticeably stronger command game.
2) A strong command game benefits from heavy 2-shielder presence in the deck.
3) Urien tends to lack closing power: Soul Seizure is actually a really good fix for this: a combat surprise as good as Archon's Terror, though of course a worse card because of its cost.
Thats not to say there's not a different approach to Urien around: Urien-choke exists too, as is Urien-mill, but overall I just find the general shape of this deck is more consistent in getting wins.
Your points are very valid and I don't disagree with any of them. I've never argued against Soul Seizure (in fact I'm a big fan of the card), I just thought that it being the only Torture trick in the deck was limiting Urien's effectiveness. I just feel that the deck is somewhat ... safe. That's obviously not saying that it's bad, and I'm sure this deck sees success, it's just that you're relying on strength and shields to get through rather than any tricks (other than the Klaivex + SS), and in that case you may as well be playing Nazdreg.
But that's one thing I love about this game. What works for one person might not work for another, as well as the converse. I, personally, see this deck as a safe middle-ground that has a strong unit selection but lacks tech, whereas you see Urien's torture tech as being strong but hard to set up, hence the reliance of units. Both will do well in the hands of player that can use them, but both will equally do terribly for a player that can't.
I think I agree with Kaloo on this one: it's not that this deck is bad, but it's just no Urien-y enough to make me want to play it instead of, say, Straken. All boils down to what one thinks is fun, of course.
I also have to say so far I've never felt the thrill of trying a Urien deck, because everytime I get a cool idea it involves playing a non-torture event. Like: "Ok, I want to attempt the perfect choke, let's put Superiority and Subdual in! Oh wait... ...Mmm no Archon's Terror in either... NEEDZ MOAR TORTURES!".