107 replies to this topic

[zeb]

"Immune to Player Card Effects" and Attacking the Staging Area

Gatharion:

"Immune to player card effects" means that cards that did direct things to him (like lowering his stats or direct damage via Gandalf or Descendant of Throndor) could not be used. Likewise, one couldn't get any affect from something like a Forest Snare on him. However, I'm not so sure about cards like Hands Upon the Bow, Great Yew Bow, or Dunhere that let you attack enemies in the staging area.

Caleb:

Hands Upon the Bow and Quick Strike can be used to attack enemies with "immune to player card effects" because those two cards are targeting a character and not the enemy. (The bit about "an eligible enemy target" on Quick Strike is only there to clarify that non-ranged characters cannot attack enemies engaged with other players when resolving its effect.) Dunhere and Great Yew Bow don't work against enemies that are immune to player card effects because they do directly target the enemy. This means that when playing The Battle of Five Armies scenario, you could in fact use Hands Upon the Bow to attack Bolg in the staging area.

[zeb]

Ithilien Pit

Morithain:

When an enemy gets this attached to him, does that mean anybody can attack him immediately, or do you have to wait until the combat phase?

Caleb:

You do, indeed, have each player do their own attacks against the enemy during their own attack windows.

[zeb]

Can you play a Response from a card just drawn because of the same trigger?

Zeb

I travel to Forest Gate: Response: After you travel to Forest Gate, the first player may draw 2 cards. So I draw two cards, one of which being Strength of Will: Response: After you travel to a location, exhaust a Spirit character to place 2 progress tokens on that locaton.

Can I play it immediately to place 2 progress tokens on Forest Gate I just travelled to? Is the "After you travel" trigger still available after I drew the cards?

Caleb:

You can play the Strength of Will that you drew with the Forest Gate. When multiple Response effects share the same trigger, you can decide which order to trigger them in. So in this example, you can choose to trigger the Forest Gate first to draw 2 cards. One of those cards (Strength of Will) happens to have a Response effect that can be triggered as well, so you choose to play that next.

Any Response effect that has a trigger needs to be played immediately after its trigger. (It's because you can only play 1 effect at a time that the players get to choose which order to resolve multiple Response effects with the same trigger.) Once the game advances (a player plays an action, a new phase begins, etc) the opportunity to play a Response is done.

Note: see also http://www.cardgamed...ions/#entry4469

[zeb]

Multiple Encounter Cards: Response Window Width

Nikos:

For three player, Encounter Deck reveals (in this order) ...
1. Location
2. Enemy
3. Treachery

You have Strider's Path in your hand. Which of the following is true:

A. You must play Strider's Path on the first Location immedately after it is revealed (i.e. between Encounter Cards #1 and #2).

B, You can play Strider's Path on the first Location after all three encounter cards are revealed (i.e. response window for Encounter Card #1 is still active).

Caleb:

Because the Response on Strider's Path reads "After a location is revealed from the encounter deck..." you would have to play it after the location you want to travel to is revealed. If you wait until another card is revealed, then you have missed the opportunity to trigger the Response.

So in your example, you would need to play it after encounter card #1 and before #2. If you waited until after #3, then you would be responding to a treachery card just revealed, which is not a legal target for Strider's Path.

[spackula]

Fun trick for all your multiplayer players out there:

Q:
> Question concerning Aragorn (TWitW) and Desperate Alliance.

> I know that there was a previous ruling with Landroval that said that in a multiplayer game each player could trigger Landroval's ressurect ability ("once per game").
>
> Does this same philosophy work with Aragorn's threat reset ability? If I pass him to another player during Refresh using Desperate Alliance, can that player use his threat reset ability as that player's "once per game" limitation, and then I could use his threat reset ability with my own "once per game" limitation?

A:

Good question. The rule about "once per game" ability on Landroval applies to all player cards. The "once per game" ability on Aragorn applies to the player not the card. So, if another player gains control of Aragorn, that player may trigger his ability as well.
Cheers,
Caleb

[zeb]

Using A Good Harvest with 0 cost cards

Distractionbeast:

Anyone know if you can use A Good Harvest (Action: Name a sphere. Until the end of the phase, you can spend resources of any sphere when paying for cards that belong to the named sphere.) to pay for 0 cost cards that DO NOT match any of your heroes' spheres?

Caleb:

A Good Harvest does not allow players to play 0 cost cards without a resource match. Since you are not using any resources to pay for the card, the ability of A Good Harvest does not apply and you still need a resource match.

[zeb]

Controlled locations (Assault on Osgiliath)

Nerdmeister:

The rules for Assault on Osgilliath says "Locations under any player´s control are still in play. Their game text is active and they can be affected by card effects"

Does this mean we can still place progress tokens on those locations with effects like Asfaloth and the like?
If so what happens if we place enough progress on them to equal their progress value? Would the tokens get discarded or would the location go straight back to player control if it is returned to the staging area?

Are we supposed to still be able to use the actions of player-controlled locations, like Ruined Tower´s ability to travel to it? This might be a good approach (if valid) in situations where having too many controlled locations would outright mean the death of heroes or the like.

Caleb:

You can still place progress on Osgiliath locations you control. However, when you lose control of an Osgiliath location, the rules say you must discard all progress from it before returning it to the staging area. If you did place progress on a location you control equal to its quest points, then the first player would take control of the location instead of it being discarded. The rules also say to discard all progress from it at that point.
I like your idea of traveling to a location you already control. That is a cool idea, and the rules for the scenario do allow it. You would lose control of the location when it leaves your play area, but I think that was your point.

[zeb]

Blood of Numenor: persistence of effect depending on a variable

legolas18:

I was playing a game of Journey Down the Anduin, and Aragorn was defending against the Hill Troll with a copy of Blood of Numenor on him and a Steward of Gondor. The Hill Troll got a shadow effect that said that it got +2 attack. Aragorn had three damage already, and when he had triggered Blood of Numenor he had four resources left in his resource pool, giving him 6 defense against 8 attack. So, he would have died. But, I had a a copy of For Gondor! in my hand. Could I spend two out of the four resources to play For Gondor!, therefore giving Aragorn +1 defense, which is all he needs to survive? Or, does he lose 2 defense by spending two resources because of Blood of Numenor?

I guess my question is this: Does Blood of Numenor's effect happen immediately, counting all the resources that the hero has in his resource pool immediately and providing the extra defense based on that number, or can its effect be changed if you spend some of the resources that were there when the ability was triggered?

Caleb:

Blood of Numenor is a triggered effect that lasts until the end of the phase. The additional defense it provides is based on the number of resources in the attached hero's resource pool at the time it is triggered. So, if Aragorn had 5 resources in his pool when you triggered Blood of Numenor, he would get +4 defense until the end of the phase. If you paid 2 more resources from his pool to play For Gondor! after that, he would still have +4 defense from Blood of Numenor.

[zeb]

"If able" in card effects

Bill Dozer:

There are several encounter card effects which use the term "if able" together with a condition that references multiple cards. For example.

• Orc Raider (RTR)
  Forced: After Orc Raiders engages a player, that player discards 2 attachments he controls, if able.
• Cave Spider (TLD)
  When Revealed: The first player draws 1 card. Then, that player must choose and discard 4 cards from his hand, if able.
• Abandoned Mine (TLD)
  Lost: Return the top 2 Goblin enemies in the encounter discard pile to the staging area, if able.

If fewer cards which meet these conditions are available, then is the effect still played?

Caleb:

In The Lord of the Ring LCG, when an encounter card effect uses the language "if able" it means that if you are not able to completely fulfill its effect then you should ignore it. For example, if an encounter card effect says "When Revealed: Return the topmost enemy in the encounter deck discard pile to the staging area, if able." and there are no enemies in the discard pile, then the effect does nothing.
In the examples you mentioned:

• If you only have 1 attachment in play, then you are not able to discard 2 and you should ignore the Orc Raider's effect.
• If you only have 3 or fewer cards in your hand, then you are not able to discard 4 cards and you should ignore the Cave Spider's effect.
• If there is only 1 or fewer Goblin enemies in the encounter discard pile, then you cannot return 2 to the staging area and you should ignore the Lost effect of Abandoned Mine.

[WasteMaLife]

You provided two interesting examples, and I'm glad you did because they highlight the difference between immediate effects and lasting effects.

Immediate effects are effects that are fully resolved as soon as they are triggered, whereas lasting effects affect the game state for a specified amount of time. Because they always say something like "until the end of the phase" or "until the end of the round" lasting effects are easy to identify.

Let me use your examples to demonstrate:

Chaos in the Cavern : has an immediate effect (return all enemies to the staging area) that if it triggers creates a lasting effect (each Goblin gets +1 threat strength until the end of the phase). If there are no enemies engaged with players at the time Chaos is revealed, then it cannot trigger because no enemies are returned to the staging area. That means the "then" clause will not trigger and Goblins will not get +1 threat strength.

Treacherous Fog : works the opposite way. It creates a lasting effect (locations in the staging area gets +1 threat strength) that triggers an immediate effect (players with 35+ threat must discard 1 card). Since this lasting effect affect the game state, it will always resolve. Even if there are no locations in the staging area at the time Treacherous Fog is revealed, locations will still get +1 threat strength until the end of the phase. That means if a location is added to the staging area after Treacherous Fog is revealed, it will get +1 threat until the end of the phase. Because the lasting effect of Treacherous Fog always resolves, it also means the "then" clause will also always resolve.

So, if there are no locations when Treacherous Fog is revealed, it still resolves because it has successfully created a lasting effect. However, if there are no enemies engaged with players at the time Chaos in the Cavern is revealed, it cannot resolve its immediate effect and you should not resolve the "then" effect.

Cheers,
Caleb

 

The FAQ says...

(1.15) The word “then” If a card effect uses the word “then,” then the preceding effect must resolve successfully for the subsequent dependent effect to resolve.

So, this is new to me.. dose this now mean that effects also do not trigger if the then fails?

Treacherous Fog
When Revealed: Each location in the staging area gets +1 Threat Strength until the end of the phase. Then, each player with a threat of 35 or higher chooses and discards 1 card from his hand.

Chaos in the Cavern
When Revealed: All engaged enemies return to the staging area. Then, each Goblin enemy gets +1 [Threat] until the end of the phase.

These two, and many like it... if the first fails... dose the 2nd part not happen? Like with the Fog, if you have no locations in the staging area... is that a fail? With Chaos is there are no goblins engaged.. dose that fail?,,, and with those failing.. the part after the "THEN" also fails right? This can not be right!... right?

Hidden Threat, Sleeping Sentry, Ill Purpose, slick footing,. .. etc etc etc.. many cards have effects that can fizzle.. these can not all have the text after the then fail as well right?

[windowlee]

 1.I'm confusing about the effect of the term "if able". An official response (http://goo.gl/Kc2mP7) said:"......if you are not able to completely fulfill its effect then you should ignore it. " However, another official response(http://goo.gl/BaaC0m) said:"Crumbling Ruin......If you can exhaust and not discard, you exhaust...... " There's a contradictory. Since I can't exhaust that means I can't fulfill itseffect. And I think I should ingore the card effect.
 2.What's the meaning of "ignore"? If I ignore a card effect with a term like "if able",does it resolve successfully?E.G. Fatigue assume a player have already exhausted all his characters before Fatigue take effect what happens? I think he should ignore all effects of Fatigue. Am I right ?

 3.What's the difference between "all" and "each"?

 

 

Good questions. I’ll answer them in order:

1. When you find what appear to be contradictory rulings, you should use the most current ruling. In the case of effects that use the phrase ‘if able’ - you should only resolve the effect if you are able to fully resolve it. If you cannot, then you ignore the effect.

2. Ignoring an effect means you proceed with the game as if the effect was resolved (without actually resolving it). Using the example of Fatigue, the first line of its When Revealed effect reads: “Each player must exhaust 1 character he controls, if able.” If you are not able to exhaust a character, you simply proceed with the game as if the effect was resolved. That brings you to the second line, “Then, if any player controls no unexhausted characters, Fatigue gains surge.” Because you are proceeding as if the first line was resolved, the ’then’ clause on the second line will trigger, and if any player controls no unexhausted character, Fatigue will surge.
3. The difference between ‘all’ and ‘each’ is very significant because ‘all’ can include 0 whereas ‘each’ requires there to be at least 1 target. For example, with a When Revealed effect that read: “All engaged enemies make an immediate attack. Then, each player discards the top card of his deck.” the second effect will always trigger, even if there are no enemies in play. But, if that effect read: “Each engaged enemy makes an immediate attack. Then, each player discards the top card of his deck.” the second effect will only trigger if at least 1 enemy made an attack.
Cheers,
Caleb

[windowlee]

Q:

The effect of Protector of Lorien has an limit of 3 times per phase. And Landrovalâ?~s ability with a limite once per game. Could you tell me how do these limits count ?
      For Landroval's ability, does it means once per game per player ï¼YOr once per game for all players? If I use Landroval's ability, then my partner play his Landroval, could he trigger Landroval's ability?
      And how about the effect of Protector of Lorien ? Does "limit 3 times per phase "means 3 times per phase per PoL or 3 times per phase for all cards in play and all players?

 

 

A:

Great question. Limits are per player. If you use Landroval’s once per game ability, you cannot use that ability again for the rest of the game, but your partner could still play Landroval and use his effect. If both you and your friend have Protector of Lorien attached to a hero you control, both of you can discard up to 3 cards from your hand to take advantage of its effect. If you had 2 copies of Protector of Lorien in play, you could trigger both of them up to 3 times per phase.
Cheers,
Caleb

[windowlee]

Question 1.
> One more question about the phrase "once per round/phase": if a character with once per round/phase ability be discarded and then played from the discard pile, could the limit be reset?
> Situation 1
> I have use Beravor's ability during Quest Phase and deal 4 damage on her during Combat Phase then a Fortune or Fate to put her into play from my discard pile. Could I trigger her ability once more (in this round)?
> Situation 2
> I have triggered the ability of a Rider of the Mark and it be defeated later , then I use a Stand and Fight to put the Rider into play. Does the Rider's limit be reset ?Could I trigger its ability again?
>
> If the first answer is no and second is yes ,could you tell me why The limit of a Hero could't be reset and the Rider's can. For Beravor is a unique character and the Rider doesn't?
>
> Question 2
> If I trigger the Rider of the Mark 's ability, could my partner trigger the same Rider's ability in a same round?

 

 

 

 

I’m glad you wrote back because I’m afraid I over-spoke with regard to limitations: In my last message I said that limitations are per player. What I should have said was that “once per game” limitations are per player, such as Landroval’s or lore Aragorn’s. The rest of the limitations read as they are printed on the card.
For example, Rider of the Mark: you can use his effect to give your partner control, but your partner cannot use his effect again that round because it is limit once per round. However, if that ally left play and you used Stand and Fight to bring it back, it is essentially a new ally. That new ally hasn’t triggered its effect yet, so you could use its Action if you wanted to. The same is true for Beravor: if you used her once per round effect to draw 2 cards during the planning phase and later that round she was destroyed during the combat phase, you could use Fortune of Fate to bring her back that round and trigger her Action again because it is essentially a new Beravor.
Cheers,
Caleb

[TwiceBorn]

I recently asked Caleb some questions regarding encounter deck effects during Escape from Dol Guldur (Core set), and thought I should share his response with everyone here, just in case they were of interest to others. For other related discussions, see this thread: http://community.fan...n-your-control/

 

Here were my questions:

 

I have a question regarding encounter cards in the Escape from Dol Guldur quest (Core set) that are revealed during set-up , and which affect at hero that subsequently will be selected as the "prisoner" in the scenario. 

 

Stage 1A (setup) in Escape from Dol Guldur instructs the player to "attach 1 encounter to each objective card." Let us say that one of the cards revealed by the encounter deck to fulfill the "guarded" trait on one of the objective cards is the treachery card "Caught in a Web," which must be attached "when revealed" to one of the heroes controlled by the player with the highest threat level.

 

We then proceed to Stage 1B after all encounter cards have been revealed and attached to the objectives in the staging area, or have otherwise been resolved (e.g., treacheries). For illustrative purposes, let us say that "Caught in a Web" is attached to Legolas during Stage 1A. Stage 1B reads: "When revealed: Randomly select 1 hero card (among all the heroes controlled by the players) and turn it face down. This hero is now considered a "prisoner," cannot be used, cannot be damaged, and does not collect resources, until it is "rescued" (as instructed by card effects) later in this quest."

 

If Legolas is randomly selected as the prisoner and turned face down in stage 1B, does the Caught in a Web attachment that was played on him in Stage 1A remain attached when rescued (Stage 2B), or does it get sent to the discard pile immediately after the hero is picked as prisoner during 1B? I understand that nothing can be attached to the hero AFTER they have been selected as the prisoner (since the hero "cannot be used"), until they have been rescuedâ?¦ but what happens to attachments from the encounter deck attached to the hero BEFORE he/she becomes prisoner? 

The same general question would apply to the "when revealed" effect of the King Spider ("exhaust a character"), if applied to a hero during the set-up phase (1A), when that hero is subsequently selected as the prisoner in 1B. When rescued in 2B, would the hero/prisoner be flipped up and immediately exhausted (in addition to suffering 1 damage) as a result of the King Spider's "when revealed" effect during set-up, or would the King Spider's "when revealed" effects in 1A be ignored when the hero/prisoner is rescued in 2B?

 

 

Here is Caleb's response.

 

 

Great questions!

 

First, if a hero is Caught in a Web and then chosen to be the prisoner, Caught in a Web will stay attached to that hero even while it is facedown. That means when you rescue that hero, it will still have the encounter attached to it.

 

If a hero is exhausted before being chosen as the prisoner, it will still ready during the refresh phase since the rules say to “ready each card in play.”

 

 

Ultimately, what that implies is that any encounter deck effects that occur during set-up, before the captive is selected, will remain in effect on the prisoner when the prisoner is liberated, unless the effect would have had no on-going effect beyond the Refresh phase. Thus, if during set-up a hero was exhausted due to the King Spider's "When Revealed" effect, and the next card drawn during set-up was the treachery The Necromancer's Reach (which causes 1 damage to each exhausted character), then if the exhausted character were selected as the prisoner during stage 1B of the scenario, then the hero/captive would also have an additional point of damage assigned to them when rescued during Stage 2B of the quest. 

[TwiceBorn]

I recently asked Caleb/FFG the following question (I suspect that many experienced players may already have been aware of the answer, but since I could not find an official answer in the rules or FAQ, I thought it worth asking FFG if only to determine if there was a definitive/official ruling on it… and that the answer would be worth sharing for the benefit of other newbies).

 

Here is the question (with particular reference to Escape from Dol Guldur, but also with implications for other scenarios):

 

When drawing cards from the encounter deck to attach to the objective cards during set-up (1A) in Escape from Dol Guldur (Core set), if a card with the Surge keyword (e.g., Endless Caverns) is attached to the first or second objective card during set-up, does the card that is drawn to fulfill the requirements of the Surge keyword then become attached to the next objective card? Or is it added to the staging area without being attached to one of the objective cards, and other cards are then revealed from the encounter deck to attach to the remaining objective cards?

 Here is Caleb's reply:

 

Only the first card revealed for the Guarded keyword is attached to that card. If the revealed card has the Surge keyword, then the next card revealed will be placed in the staging area (or resolved & placed in the discard pile if it’s a treachery).

 

I interpret that to mean that even if there are other Guarded objectives during set-up that yet have to have encounter cards attached to them, the card drawn from the encounter deck to fulfill the Surge keyword on a card attached to the first objective will be placed in the staging area and not on one of the other objectives. I hope this was helpful. 

[kainveus]

Q： When Gandalf's Map is guarded by an enemy, and I play Saruman to let the enemy out of play,what will happen to the map? and in the end of the round that enemy back in to game, what will happen to the map if I haven't claim it?
A：Good question. Since Saruman’s effect doesn’t actually remove the enemy / location guarding Gandalf’s Map from play (it only causes it to be considered to be out of play), when Saruman leaves play the enemy / location will continue to guard Gandalf’s Map. However, if you claim the objective before Saruman leaves play, then the enemy / location will not be guarding it anymore when it ‘returns’ to play.

[kainveus]

Q：I use stand together to exhaust 1 hero and 1 ally to defend, and the shadow text is "if the defender is an ally ,discard it" , need I discard the ally?
A：Yes, when resolving effects you do as much as you can. In this instance, one of your defenders is an ally, so you would discard it. 
Now, if both of your defenders were allies, you would still only discard one because the shadow effect is only targeting “an ally”.

[kainveus]

Q：In the new FAQ, "must X or Y"means if you can't do X then you can do Y,but Counter-Attack(ATS106)reads"Each player must return the location he controls with the highest threat to the staging area,or raise his threat by the total threat of all locations he controls." My question is ,how can player do the second choice? If they can't return any location then they won't control any location so they needn't to raise threat. Or if any player don't control any location ,then they must choose to raise threat?I think here should be "must either X or Y". Am I right?
A：Counter-attack should read: “Each player must either return the location he controls with the highest threat to the staging area, or…”I’ll make a note to include that errata in the next FAQ.

[kainveus]

Q：Can Thalin's ability deal damage to enemies revealed from underworld deck?
A：Thalin’s ability only targets enemies revealed from the encounter deck, so it will not affect enemies revealed from the Underworld deck.

[kainveus]

Q：When playing The Siege of Cair Andros, and I meet The power of Mordor in the begining.The Citadel/Approach/Banks all shuffled into the encounter deck, then should I immediately goto Stage 2 or reveal cards at first?
A：You should fully resolve The Power of Mordor before determining whether or not to advance to stage 2. If none of the unique locations are put back into play, then you should advance to stage 2. If at least one of the unique locations is put back into play, then you will continue on at stage 1.